Nanocloth

[A35335]

"Which begs the obvious question... do these edges shave any better than a good film edge finished on diamond pasted balsa? I agree, pretty is not as important as effective. I know Seraphim's highly photogenic edges are great shavers, because others who have shaved with them have said so, and because I get fantastic shaves from edges that I have honed using his methods. But who has shaved with one of these CBN/nanocloth edges? TBH, I don't know if an edge can get any better, shave-wise, than a good film edge stropped on pasted balsa. I think it reaches a point where no detectable improvement is possible. Is this stuff just making a pretty edge, and that's it?"

Great points. I shaved this morning with a straight that I got in 2005. Lapping film to 3 micron, then 1 mic, .5 mic, .25 mic diamond on balsa. Great shave, at least for my limited experience, no tugging, no gotchas, etc. Is it just making a pretty edge? Quite possible. If I am able to feel any difference after using the nanocloth, users with more experience than I should surely be able to tell.

 

[A35335]

"At the same time, I don't see anything wrong with looking at both sides. A few questions have already come up, and I am very interested in finding answers to those questions."

That is exactly the reason I'm here.

Rich

 

[Kentos]

Haven't used nano cloth, but I like the sub micron CBN and nanogrit diamond. If you like the shaves off a Feather AC, judicious use of the sprays on a well honed edge will serve you well. You cannot use the same technique on a super sharp edge as you would a skin friendly coticule edge. YMMV but "pretty good" and "sublime" are sepUarated by 10-20 laps on my sprayed hanging leather, and that edge is easily maintained with the same strop.

 

[dakotaev]

I used to be more obsessed about scratch patterns, pastes and perfect edges but I realized it always left me more tender after shaving.

I gave up on that as I think I was leaning on the pastes as a crutch. Today one of my razors finished on my JNat might might not look visually perfect but it shaves 10x more comfortably on my own face. Maybe uber ultra mega refined sharp edges clash with my shaving technique.

It is a cool video though, it's always fun seeing the results of different products under the microscope. In fact I still use my microscope a lot while honing, not only because I like seeing the edge, but also to compare microscopic visual queues to tactile feedback and overall shave performance to help me continue to improve over time.

 

[honed]

Interesting video!

I have made quite a few posts about my use of these compounds.
Last spring I started testing these compounds extensively in cooperation with Ken & once we came down to less then 0.1µ there was always the feel of the substrate sort of #getting in the way"
The best substrate I found was kangaroo, but then one day Ken called me & said that he had come up with something completely new that he thought was gonna be perfect.
So he sent me the very first piece of this cloth, not even named, I still have that piece, labeled "??? cloth"
What is interesting about it is two things;
1) If you strop on it untreated it does absolutely nothing, no matte rhow many hundred of laps, absolutely nothing happens. 100% neutral.
2) It "Presents" the compound very well & since its very thin & glass-backed, it makes for a very precise edge, almost no convexing at all.

As for the compounds themselves, as said, I have posted quite a bit about my experiences with them & "sub-micron" edges has been my daily shaves for well over a year.

As for the sheer shave-quality, that is such a personal thing that it's impossible to answer.
For me these "extreme" edges fits perfectly. And yes, you will have to adjust your technique, I have gotten to the point were a well honed coticule or escher feels kinda dull...
I have to use what I now consider pressure.

Still its nothing like a shavette, since the edge is still honed by hand.

And for the record, I have no business affiliation with Ken what so ever, I consider him a friend & a great mentor for sure, but that's it. No money involved, just sheer enthusiasm & a great, hilarious chase for the Ultimate edge.

 

[paco664]

interesting...

i get great edges off lapping film.......

i get great edges off stones.....

its the violinist not the violin....

 

[smalltank]

I used to send my straights out to be honed..if on 15k or higher grits..I get 2.5 months very smooth n sharp shaves of 2x a week when used..if honed on coti alone...4 months of also very nice n smooth shaves...this was my observation before I got into honing my own

 

[Doc226]

I have the CBN 0.1 spray on nano cloth. As Jens said, the nano cloth presents the CBN perfectly. I only use it after coti edges to get a little extra keenness, and it does that perfectly.

As far as scratch patterns, to me they mean very little. I can get almost a mirror polish using naniwas up to 12K but boy are the edges harsh for me.

I have also used CBN spray in balsa wood for kitchen knifes and it works great.

 

[tomjr]

i think i might give this a go, sounds very interesting. i like to experiment not for scratch patterns or shiny edges but for great shaves period. this is a unknown factor to me to try, maybe. at the very least it is interesting. thanks for the heads up A35335.

 

[Kentos]

I have the CBN 0.1 spray on nano cloth. As Jens said, the nano cloth presents the CBN perfectly. I only use it after coti edges to get a little extra keenness, and it does that perfectly.

As far as scratch patterns, to me they mean very little. I can get almost a mirror polish using naniwas up to 12K but boy are the edges harsh for me.

I have also used CBN spray in balsa wood for kitchen knifes and it works great.

How many laps on the superdupercloth to get to where you want? I am happy with hanging leather, but 'upwards and onwards' is my motto

 

[Samjax]

Great video! It's still somewhat odd though, that with lapping film, I prefer a shave progressing to the 1 micron to 1 micron with paper underneath and then to leather; than I do by going with the finer .3 micron lapping paper in the progression. The .3 feels a bit harsh - the 1 micron with paper underneath is plenty sharp and, at least to me, has a "smoother" feel to it.

I had questioned the merits of nano cloth in a post a couple of months ago - albeit without the additional sprays. I have enough on my plate already at this time - but this may be fun to check out in the future a bit more.

 

[A35335]

And for those that use/have used the nanocloth, are you stropping on leather after or going straight to shaving? I'll try it both ways, but always curious as to how others do it.........

How long inbetween honings? And do you have to start from rebevel mode or can you start at, say, 8k?

Thanks.

 

[Slash McCoy]

And for those that use/have used the nanocloth, are you stropping on leather after or going straight to shaving? I'll try it both ways, but always curious as to how others do it.........

How long inbetween honings? And do you have to start from rebevel mode or can you start at, say, 8k?

Thanks.

I have never used nanocloth, and possibly I might never try it. Film on tile is too much cheaper and gives me great shaving edges. But:

With any honing method, you must still strop before shaving.

With any honing method, once the bevel is properly set, if you are only honing away normal wear, there is no need to go back to resetting the bevel. In fact, to reduce wear, you should NOT do so. Only go back as far as you need.

8k ANSI grit is roughly the same as 3u film or spray or paste or powder. 1u is roughly equivelant to 14k ANSI or a 12k Naniwa. (The Japanese grit scale is a little different) If the edge is still shaving fairly good, just go to your finisher. If it shaves with difficulty, go back to your 8k/3u stage and then hit your finisher. If it is your razor, once you have set a good bevel, you should never have to do it again, ever, unless your blade gets damaged.

In the case of a progression that goes into the sub-micron region, the entire progression from 1u to the end is your finisher.

 

[Doc226]

How many laps on the superdupercloth to get to where you want? I am happy with hanging leather, but 'upwards and onwards' is my motto

About 15.

I actually have a piece of balsa wood with CBN spray I use for kitchen knifes, interesting enough it gives them an extra umph. I usually dont take the kitchen knifes over 1200, but even that much of a jump you can feel the keenness on the edge.

And for those that use/have used the nanocloth, are you stropping on leather after or going straight to shaving? I'll try it both ways, but always curious as to how others do it.........

How long inbetween honings? And do you have to start from rebevel mode or can you start at, say, 8k?

Thanks.

I always strop before shaving. I use the CBN every 5-7 shaves. I actually only use it with coti edges to give it a bit more pop.

I would be happy to strop on the CBN for anyone who wants to try it. Send me your shave ready razor and I'll given it 15 or so laps on the 0.1 CBN on the nano cloth and send it back to you to try. Sender pays shipping.

PM me if interested.

 

[Kentos]

About 15.

I actually have a piece of balsa wood with CBN spray I use for kitchen knifes, interesting enough it gives them an extra umph. I usually dont take the kitchen knifes over 1200, but even that much of a jump you can feel the keenness on the edge.



I always strop before shaving. I use the CBN every 5-7 shaves. I actually only use it with coti edges to give it a bit more pop.

I would be happy to strop on the CBN for anyone who wants to try it. Send me your shave ready razor and I'll given it 15 or so laps on the 0.1 CBN on the nano cloth and send it back to you to try. Sender pays shipping.

PM me if interested.

I am at around that lap count on leather too. If you have a spare clean one I can spray it with 0.05 or 0.025 for ya get it splitting air molecules.

 

[Doc226]

I am at around that lap count on leather too. If you have a spare clean one I can spray it with 0.05 or 0.025 for ya get it splitting air molecules.

Can you hear the sonic boom?

 

[Kentos]

Boom chikki chikki boom?

 

[Doc226]

Boom chikki chikki boom?

No, it is

Boom-Chikki-Boom-Boom

 

[Seraphim]

I'd like to see an image of that edge after a shave.

The guy made a nice video. I won't knock it.

From my experience, there is very little appreciable difference once you get to the 0.5um range of finishing. 0.5um (or cheaply available 0.3um like from Thorlabs) lapping film on a sheet of wet paper will yield a scratch free bevel no problemo. So will cromox on a cotton Levi belt as I often use ($8.95, which can be used to make two strops).

Calculating magnification is tricky with digital imaging. I usually cannot see the entire bevel in my scope when looking at an edge unless a razor has a particularly dainty grind and tiny bevel. I would say the Veeho is somewhere slightly lower in mag than what I normally post images of edges at.

As perhaps was also mentioned, how shiny a bevel is dies not necessarily mean the sharpest edge. The bevel can be as shiny as the top of my balding middle aged head, and still be dull like this:

\_/ instead of like this \/

When I evaluate an edge I mount the razor up at a 45-60 degree angle (learned from Zowada's website), so as to be better able to evaluate the edge condition, not just the polish on the bevel.

I hope this guy makes some more follow up videos. I love his enthusiasm.


BTW, I have 0.10um lapping film and it really is no big deal in my opinion. After 0.5um level the honing grit doesn't matter so much as the quality of the steel and the edge geometry and things start to break down with regards to edge retention at that level in my experience.

 

[cb91710]

Calculating magnification is tricky with digital imaging. I usually cannot see the entire bevel in my scope when looking at an edge unless a razor has a particularly dainty grind and tiny bevel. I would say the Veeho is somewhere slightly lower in mag than what I normally post images of edges at.

My Veho looks the same as his and claims to be 400x....

My first honing attempt at my Wacker and Bismark (both after stropping, no CrOX, this was 12k-linen-leather)... 2nd job was MUCH better but I didn't take pics.