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Nanocloth

What's with the increase in reflectivity of the edge with the finer edges in that video?

Highly polished edge there. More scratches = less reflectivity = (supposedly) inferior edge.
It really is an accomplishment to get an edge polished like that under that scope's 400x... I'm not sure that a mirror would look that good.

But it's also a matter of "how much is good enough?"
I can get a beautiful pull and weeper free ATG under my nose for the first 5-7 shaves off of my C-Nat plus .5 CrOX on linen.
I can't do that with a DE or a cart... I'll get weepers from them.

I'm sure this blade will do that. Will it last any longer? My bet is it won't look any different than my edges after a week of shaving and stropping.


In reality when an 8k Norton can producing a perfectly shaveable edge.... how far do we need to go beyond 12-15k?
 
I get the same results as you, Rich, after honing only on rocks. I've done the same after a King 8k as well. I needed a good stropping with either, though.

I've shaved with a razor taken to the extreme like what this guy is trying to do, and it was noticeably sharper but perhaps not sharper enough for me to go crazy about it. It also left my skin feeling a bit tender. I like my skin to feel like skin after a shave, not like burning flesh.

As far as reflectivity of the edge, I'm saying that I see light reflecting off the edge even in the last picture. For such a fine edge, I'm used to seeing almost no reflection at the edge. But, it could just be the angle of the light source.
 
For about 200-300$ worth of pastes/sprays and nano cloth, I would buy some nice stones instead. If you are looking for the ultimate edge, than maybe these sprays are perfect, but if you are looking for the perfect shave, than I am not convinced about it. Maybe they are great, but the price is prohibitive for me :) You can buy a nice finisher for that price, or a lifetime supply of ultra fine lapping films, and that would be much cheaper than these. Nice microscope pics doesn't equally mean nicer shaves.
 
I didn't do this video, just saw it, thought it looked like more rabbit hole. If you don't want to do it, don't.

"Seraphim gets edges like that on film."

If he uses .050 film, very possible. I don't know him, haven't seen his work. Would love to see a comparison between this guy with nanocloth and Seraphim with lapping film. Great experiment.

An 8k stone will not give this level of polish, it's just physically impossible. If it was, we'd all have 8k stones and nothing else.

I also would agree that different angles, different light sources, etc., can all contribute to a different "reflection", if you will, for each picture. You hold a razor or knife up to a certain light a certain way and you behold a beautiful, polished edge, devoid of scratches. You tilt it one way or the other and, oops, look at those scratches. Not that it might not still give you a great shave. That's not the point here to me. How good is good enough? What? Am I in the right place? I don't know, but I sure am willing to try and find out. I ordered a couple of 3x11 pieces and some .050 diamond to add to the collection. If we don't try, everyone will have a full beard, no?

"Nice microscope pics doesn't equally mean nicer shaves." Absolutely correct, but the inverse is also true.

"In reality when an 8k Norton can producing a perfectly shaveable edge.... how far do we need to go beyond 12-15k?" Could someone a few years back have said the same thing about a 4k and a 10k? I like to think that our quest for ultimate has fueled these stone and compound manufacturers so that we can achieve better edges.

Where's your pioneer spirit?
 
No one here has said that an 8k hone will produce the same level of polish. Read what Rich and I actually said.

As far as the level of polish different options give, what's the point? I see that the blade faces are polished at different levels. I also see that the edge (i.e. what matters) reflects at least the same amount of light, maybe more. Then, perhaps we want to look at a different angle, a different magnification or perhaps take another extreme and start looking using UV light. Will we reach new levels? Personally, I've tried the results of using these very fine, expensive sprays, and in the end the edge didn't shave appreciably better. In fact, it was worse in that my skin did not like it as much as my usual edge preparation.

You are welcome to spend $200 for what is supposedly the latest and greatest. I am just saying that I find what I have to be perfectly adequate. I'd rather spend the energy refining my skill because I've found that usually matters much more than the tools.
 
No one here has said that an 8k hone will produce the same level of polish. Read what Rich and I actually said.

As far as the level of polish different options give, what's the point? I see that the blade faces are polished at different levels. I also see that the edge (i.e. what matters) reflects at least the same amount of light, maybe more. Then, perhaps we want to look at a different angle, a different magnification or perhaps take another extreme and start looking using UV light. Will we reach new levels? Personally, I've tried the results of using these very fine, expensive sprays, and in the end the edge didn't shave appreciably better. In fact, it was worse in that my skin did not like it as much as my usual edge preparation.

You are welcome to spend $200 for what is supposedly the latest and greatest. I am just saying that I find what I have to be perfectly adequate. I'd rather spend the energy refining my skill because I've found that usually matters much more than the tools.

If I misunderstood about the 8k stone, I stand corrected. The inference I got was what I said. I am not trying to be confrontational.

This was not about what is an acceptable shave, at least not to me. Since I haven't tried this yet, I have no idea if it's good or bad. This was about "something different" that may be better, may be worse. If you haven't tried it, you can't judge it.

Where did the $200 figure come from?

Perhaps the gentleman that made the video got a great shave from this razor. I would assume so, since he took the time to do the video. Not a lot of sense in doing so if it didn't work for him. I guess I don't understand the negativity here that I'm sensing. I got no dog in this fight and could care less what you do, just as you don't care what I do. Maybe we could agree on that.

Rich
 
Nice microscope pics doesn't equally mean nicer shaves.

Which begs the obvious question... do these edges shave any better than a good film edge finished on diamond pasted balsa? I agree, pretty is not as important as effective. I know Seraphim's highly photogenic edges are great shavers, because others who have shaved with them have said so, and because I get fantastic shaves from edges that I have honed using his methods. But who has shaved with one of these CBN/nanocloth edges? TBH, I don't know if an edge can get any better, shave-wise, than a good film edge stropped on pasted balsa. I think it reaches a point where no detectable improvement is possible. Is this stuff just making a pretty edge, and that's it?

What I would really like to see is .1u and .05u or .025u lapping film. If it's overkill, then at least it would be cheap overkill.
 
"What I would really like to see is .1u and .05u or .025u lapping film. If it's overkill, then at least it would be cheap overkill."

Agreed. 3M says they make lapping film in .05 micron, but I can't locate it anywhere.
 
If I misunderstood about the 8k stone, I stand corrected. The inference I got was what I said. I am not trying to be confrontational.

It seems that there are two Riches here. I was referring to cb91710, not you. Perhaps that added to the confusion. I'm not trying to be confrontational either.

This was not about what is an acceptable shave, at least not to me. Since I haven't tried this yet, I have no idea if it's good or bad. This was about "something different" that may be better, may be worse. If you haven't tried it, you can't judge it.

I'm not talking about what's just an acceptable shave either. In fact, I'm saying that I find such a fine edge somewhat unacceptable because it's a bit harsh on my skin. For others, maybe it's not. But, I do question the benefit of going to such extremes. For one, it's possible to get top-notch results without using such fine abrasives and without getting an edge that's short-lasting and potentially harsh. (I say that short-lasting because the edge created by these abrasives starts breaking down quickly.)

Where did the $200 figure come from?

I just added up the numbers. The 3"x8" nanocloth plates look to be $30 each. Most of the CBN bottles are $40 each. I could not find the finest spray mentioned in the video but imagine that it's at least $40, if not more. So, assuming you need at least these four sprays, $30*4+$40*4=$280 before taxes (if applicable) and shipping.

Perhaps the gentleman that made the video got a great shave from this razor. I would assume so, since he took the time to do the video. Not a lot of sense in doing so if it didn't work for him. I guess I don't understand the negativity here that I'm sensing. I got no dog in this fight and could care less what you do, just as you don't care what I do. Maybe we could agree on that.

Sure, I agree that this guy was enthusiastic about what he found. At the same time, I don't see anything wrong with looking at both sides. A few questions have already come up, and I am very interested in finding answers to those questions.
 
Having watched the video, I think this is definitely cool and interesting.

That being said, I might as well ask the taboo obvious question nobody has asked: Is sharper always better? I think at a certain point as the blade gets sharper you lose smoothness. If it were all about getting the edge sharper, honing would be a lot easier than it is. I think there is a balance, and while sharp is good, sharp at the expense of harsh isn't. YMMV and all that
 
That being said, I might as well ask the taboo obvious question nobody has asked: Is sharper always better? I think at a certain point as the blade gets sharper you lose smoothness.

You will get an edge that is technically smooth. That is, it will be more uniform. But, remember that your skin remains the same. Do you want to catch an edge on every imperfection?
 
You will get an edge that is technically smooth. That is, it will be more uniform. But, remember that your skin remains the same. Do you want to catch an edge on every imperfection?

That is probably a more visual and accurate way of saying what I meant. Thanks! :wink2:
 
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