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Naniwa Super Stone Down the drain

I have a Naniwa Super Stone progression (1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k).

I went through the 1k very quickly, mostly because I was completely new to honing.

I started honing with a Titan and a Gold Dollar. I did thousands of laps because I expected the Stone to just work. Have I Made some repairs and modifications to those razors before putting them on the stone, or didn't waste steel and stone mindlessly with heavy pressure and no strategy as how to hit the bevel evenly, it wouldn't go Down the drain like it did.

But still, even after figuruing out how to set a bevel, these stones need constant lapping to clean Up swarf build up. I use a 150 or 600 plate for lapping.

Use of slurry does help to limit swarf build up. But I still need to finish the Stone on water and that takes 20 laps to load Up swarf. Soon, the whole progression will go Down the drain, not just the 1k.

Any ideas as how to prolong their lifetime? Is replacing these stones (after naniwas are gone) with shapton glass stones a step in the right direction as to getting a Stone that doesn't need constant lapping?
 
For a 1k stone, the chosera 1k is an amazing choice. I know you’ve probably had somewhat bad experiences with naniwa so far, but naniwa chosera are completely different to the SS models. The chosera 1k has absolutely no loading, and the stone lasts an unholy amount of time. You certainly won’t be washing one down the drain if its sole purpose is razor honing. As for the higher grit choseras, I cannot speak for them. I have never touched the 3k or 5k chosera, due to such commonalities with crazing and cracking. The 1k is certainly exempt from this issue. For high grits the shapton glass are an excellent choice. Well even low grits too are great obviously, but I Kindof prefer naniwa chosera at the lower end. The SG 8k HC has absolutely minimal load, and it is an excellent polisher. The HC series work great at polishers whereas hr series don’t polish as well. I currently use chosera 1k, morihei hishiboshi 4K (great for knives but works well in a hone progression), SG hr 6k, SG HC 8k, then naniwa SS 12k. I’m about to start experimenting with shaving between finishing on the ss 12k and the SG Hc 8k, because looking at them by eye, the SG appears to give a better polish, which completely stumps me. Shaving will be the real way to test the outcome. Will make me sad if the shapton glass 8k Hc is a better finisher than the naniwa SS because the naniwa is such an expensive stone.

Anyway that’s my small input. I don’t have a huge honing knowledge or background, but I come from Japanese knives, and I can absolutely promise that the chosera 1k will NOT load up, and is a super slow wearing stone that is tough. They are super hard and get the job done excellently. They can withstand a tonne of abuse. Obviously the shapton glass 1k or shapton pro 1k are good alternatives too, but I cannot speak for them personally as I do not own them
 
I started with Norton 220/1k 4k/8k and then I got the chosera 1k , naniwa 5k, 8k, and 12k.

I would think if you set the bevel correctly, the stones should last for a long time other than maybe the 1k. I never got close to running out of stone but I did also use naturals a lot. Still have my 1k chosera and have probably had it for 7+ years. Think there is easily 2/3rds of the stone left.

I love honing and to practice honing. A lot of razors I practiced with were vintage razors. If you are going to get nice stones I would also get nice razors to practice with. The only stone I would have to clean mid session was the 1k. The other stones still got lapped but would not build up too much before my razors were done (still lapped before each session and started with clean surface).

With how fast you are going through stones I think you are doing too much on the middle stones and not enough on 1k/lower. I would get a 500 grit stone and also compare how long you stay on say the 5k vs other people. As far as what stones to get next I think naniwa or shapton depending on preference.
 
I have a Naniwa Super Stone progression (1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k).

I went through the 1k very quickly, mostly because I was completely new to honing.

I started honing with a Titan and a Gold Dollar. I did thousands of laps because I expected the Stone to just work. Have I Made some repairs and modifications to those razors before putting them on the stone, or didn't waste steel and stone mindlessly with heavy pressure and no strategy as how to hit the bevel evenly, it wouldn't go Down the drain like it did.

But still, even after figuruing out how to set a bevel, these stones need constant lapping to clean Up swarf build up. I use a 150 or 600 plate for lapping.

Use of slurry does help to limit swarf build up. But I still need to finish the Stone on water and that takes 20 laps to load Up swarf. Soon, the whole progression will go Down the drain, not just the 1k.

Any ideas as how to prolong their lifetime? Is replacing these stones (after naniwas are gone) with shapton glass stones a step in the right direction as to getting a Stone that doesn't need constant lapping?
The shapton GS is grate. They don't load as much as the SS, and cut much faster. However, if you are burning through a 1k super stone after two razors the problem is probably not the stones.
To prolong the life when they start to get thin, you can glue them together as a combo or to a hard substrate. I glued my 8k ss to a slate floor tile i cut to shape. This was just to keep it from warping.

For major corrections diamonds or coarser stones is the way to go.
The Shapton gs 500 is a fantastic stone. Mine have not seen any razors yet, but i do not restore Ebay vintage or hone GD's.
 
I have a Naniwa Super Stone progression (1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k).

I went through the 1k very quickly, mostly because I was completely new to honing.

I started honing with a Titan and a Gold Dollar. I did thousands of laps because I expected the Stone to just work. Have I Made some repairs and modifications to those razors before putting them on the stone, or didn't waste steel and stone mindlessly with heavy pressure and no strategy as how to hit the bevel evenly, it wouldn't go Down the drain like it did.

But still, even after figuruing out how to set a bevel, these stones need constant lapping to clean Up swarf build up. I use a 150 or 600 plate for lapping.

Use of slurry does help to limit swarf build up. But I still need to finish the Stone on water and that takes 20 laps to load Up swarf. Soon, the whole progression will go Down the drain, not just the 1k.

Any ideas as how to prolong their lifetime? Is replacing these stones (after naniwas are gone) with shapton glass stones a step in the right direction as to getting a Stone that doesn't need constant lapping?


FWIW - you can permasoak Superstones, and it helps slightly with the loading issues.

NB - You can't permasoak Choseras/NP.

(And yep - Shapton Glass would be a very good bet next imo.)
 
Could lapping with a 150 plate be a factor? I tend to lap with 400 grit.
Lapped with the 600 side the most, or 620 grit sandpaper before I got the DMT. I worked out the issue, I honed with too much pressure as well as lapped too hard.

Now, when honing with less Pressure, it doesn't need as much lapping and when it does, lapping very lightly takes the swarf away fast.

Still, too much load Up for my liking. Other stones are supposed to load less, I just can't pick one out.
 
For a 1k stone, the chosera 1k is an amazing choice. I know you’ve probably had somewhat bad experiences with naniwa so far, but naniwa chosera are completely different to the SS models. The chosera 1k has absolutely no loading, and the stone lasts an unholy amount of time. You certainly won’t be washing one down the drain if its sole purpose is razor honing. As for the higher grit choseras, I cannot speak for them. I have never touched the 3k or 5k chosera, due to such commonalities with crazing and cracking. The 1k is certainly exempt from this issue. For high grits the shapton glass are an excellent choice. Well even low grits too are great obviously, but I Kindof prefer naniwa chosera at the lower end. The SG 8k HC has absolutely minimal load, and it is an excellent polisher. The HC series work great at polishers whereas hr series don’t polish as well. I currently use chosera 1k, morihei hishiboshi 4K (great for knives but works well in a hone progression), SG hr 6k, SG HC 8k, then naniwa SS 12k. I’m about to start experimenting with shaving between finishing on the ss 12k and the SG Hc 8k, because looking at them by eye, the SG appears to give a better polish, which completely stumps me. Shaving will be the real way to test the outcome. Will make me sad if the shapton glass 8k Hc is a better finisher than the naniwa SS because the naniwa is such an expensive stone.

Anyway that’s my small input. I don’t have a huge honing knowledge or background, but I come from Japanese knives, and I can absolutely promise that the chosera 1k will NOT load up, and is a super slow wearing stone that is tough. They are super hard and get the job done excellently. They can withstand a tonne of abuse. Obviously the shapton glass 1k or shapton pro 1k are good alternatives too, but I cannot speak for them personally as I do not own them
How do you use your Chosera 1000 to have no loading? I'm not a pro or even good honer. I'm finding it loads and slows in about 25 strokes and needs lapping clean because rubbing it clean with a thumb under running water doesn't bring it's speed back.
 
imho you dont always need to use a lapping plate to remove swarf from a superstone. I use a brillo pad as soon as I see some. another nice tool is to remove with another stone or synth nagura stone. removing millimeters of stone during a razor honing seems off to me.
 
The pressure used while setting the bevel is another thing to look at. I will generally target about 18 ounces to set a bevel. You can get a kitchen scale and put your stone on it and then zero out the scale. I’m not suggesting to use a Scale long-term but rather just to get an initial idea about your pressure management. Just over a pound is a good place for me. Using excessive pressure is naturally gonna require more frequent lapping due to the steel being embedded deeper in the surface of the stone.
 
If I have to do a ton of work on a 1k, I will consider getting a coarser stone to start with.
The condition of the existing edge and overall geometry matters a lot here though - not everything needs to go on a 500x stone but many screwed up blades can benefit from it. If I have a junker, beater, GD or similar, I may choose to start at 500x. I might go lower too, depends. But it is easy to get into trouble on a 320 or 220x, so I try to stick with the 500x.

100 laps on a 500x can be like 500 laps on a 1k. But I only go there when I need to. Sneaking up on the edge helps to minimize materials waste but it takes time and effort to learn the necessary skills/balance.

I had 3 1k SS - 10mm on the base, hated it. 10mm without a base, hated it less. And then I got the 20mm, no base, and I still never got into it. Too soft, too slow, wears too fast. From there I moved to the 1k C which was harder, faster, and hardly wore at all it seemed. The SS and the Chosera both load, but differently - seemed easier to keep the Chosera's surface clear.

Pressure - torque the pressure as opposed to leaning down on the blade. The force should be directed to the bevel/edge and not on the spine. If you are cutting, then you are cutting and it's fine, trying to make the stone cut faster can result in a mess, wasted stone and a ton of unnecessary wear on the blade.
 
My motto: Keep it light!

Naniwa Superstones are my primary stones. (3/5/8/12). I have a Chosera 600 and an SS 1000 for bevel sets. I also have 3x8 continuous diamond plates I use for mass steel removal on damaged edges. (Ultra Sharp 1200, DMT MXF/4000/6u and DMT XXF/8000/3u). I prepped all my diamond plates to remove rogue diamonds and get them razor-ready. I would say that steel removal is at least twice as fast with diamonds and the edge quality correspondingly worse, not good enough for a bevel.

I use light pressure for everything except extreme steel removal on highly damaged blades that I probably shouldn't bother honing anyway. I have never tried to bring a Gold Dollar or Titan into service. I closely inspect and buy vintage European and American razors from vintage stores. I don't mess with bevels unless needed. I don't soak these Naniwa splash and go stones.

For both synthetic stones and diamond plates I hone with a light spritz of Krud Kutter and a splash of water. I never have to lap my synthetics to remove swarf. I simply rinse them under cold running water and use a nylon brush if needed (seldom). I do a max of 50 light pressure laps before rinsing. Usually I need only 20 laps on each hone in the 3/5/8/12 progression to get a well-bevel-set edge ready for my diamond pasted balsa strop progression. I like sharp edges, mellowed only by linen/leather.

I moved to the closely spaced synthetic progression from 'the Method' using 3M lapping films. The advantage is the convenience of setup/takedown/storage when many razors are in the restoration queue. The edges are similar, at least after the balsa/diamond.

I store my synthetics on edge in a rack where they air dry, covered by a towel to protect them.

I formerly lapped my synthetics on an Atoma 400, but I'm getting easier/better flatness using my new 'certified flat' DMT 95 4x10 lapping plate. Chosera and SS stone loss is undetectable (without a caliper) after 30 or 40 razor restorations from bevel set and a few 'restorations' that were mere edge renewals. As soon as my pencil lines are gone, I stop lapping.
 
My motto: Keep it light!

Naniwa Superstones are my primary stones. (3/5/8/12). I have a Chosera 600 and an SS 1000 for bevel sets. I also have 3x8 continuous diamond plates I use for mass steel removal on damaged edges. (Ultra Sharp 1200, DMT MXF/4000/6u and DMT XXF/8000/3u). I prepped all my diamond plates to remove rogue diamonds and get them razor-ready. I would say that steel removal is at least twice as fast with diamonds and the edge quality correspondingly worse, not good enough for a bevel.

I use light pressure for everything except extreme steel removal on highly damaged blades that I probably shouldn't bother honing anyway. I have never tried to bring a Gold Dollar or Titan into service. I closely inspect and buy vintage European and American razors from vintage stores. I don't mess with bevels unless needed. I don't soak these Naniwa splash and go stones.

For both synthetic stones and diamond plates I hone with a light spritz of Krud Kutter and a splash of water. I never have to lap my synthetics to remove swarf. I simply rinse them under cold running water and use a nylon brush if needed (seldom). I do a max of 50 light pressure laps before rinsing. Usually I need only 20 laps on each hone in the 3/5/8/12 progression to get a well-bevel-set edge ready for my diamond pasted balsa strop progression. I like sharp edges, mellowed only by linen/leather.

I moved to the closely spaced synthetic progression from 'the Method' using 3M lapping films. The advantage is the convenience of setup/takedown/storage when many razors are in the restoration queue. The edges are similar, at least after the balsa/diamond.

I store my synthetics on edge in a rack where they air dry, covered by a towel to protect them.

I formerly lapped my synthetics on an Atoma 400, but I'm getting easier/better flatness using my new 'certified flat' DMT 95 4x10 lapping plate. Chosera and SS stone loss is undetectable (without a caliper) after 30 or 40 razor restorations from bevel set and a few 'restorations' that were mere edge renewals. As soon as my pencil lines are gone, I stop lapping.
Thank you for your experience and your way of using these stones. I started doing everything without pressure and it seemed to help quite a lot. Still, just a little torquing to focus steel removal on the edge is enough to load the Stone with swarf quickly. It's like a chore, where if you want a reasonably swarf free surface you have constantly use your fingers or palm of your hand to remove the swarf. Then, lapping is needed anyway. And it's needed a lot. That's just how it is for me.. using just the weight of the blade and lots of water helps not to build Up swarf but then the Stone cuts extremely slow.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Why is it that some people want to hone (and shave) in a hurry? Do they show affection to their partner(s) in the same way?

Take your time honing. With concentration on the job at hand, it can be quite relaxing and enjoyable.
 
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