Mystery hones... Let's see what you have

[kcb5150]

Why are you wasting time posting that here when you could be selling it to an Australian right now? I would be mashing my keyboard into dyslexic gibberish excited Homer Simpson-style to get that listed as quickly as humanly possible.. As for the japanese stone, dl a translator app where you point the camera in your phone at the text and it translates on the fly.

 

[rideon66]

Tim do you know Jethro. Fikira on the other site. He has a large blog about Japanese razor stones kanji and more. I think it my be binsui. Not an expert though.
He is really helpful too if you contact him about kanji or list it in the thread on the other place.

 

[rideon66]

No miss read that I am no good at Japanese. That should be a shōhonzan awasedo don't know what all the kanji means though.

 

[MO1]

Today’s visit to a thrift store that just moved yielded some scores. Being they moved, all the junk was gone but these two hones were in plain site. A Japanese water stone and a Norton hone. The first question I have is who made the waterstone. I do not recognize the trademark. Maybe some members with much more Japanese experience than myself, @Gamma @Steve56 @alx gilmore or others might have seen the mark. And if I am lucky, translate the stamps. It is marked by hand 1.5 K on the box, but it feels a lot finer. Will lap and take for a ride. The second question is on the Norton. Is this “A Norton Razor Hone” or is this “The Norton Razor Hone”. The Norton is the typical 5x2 with no box. One the end, there appears to be a ghost image of a fine-corse stamp. The camera does not pick it up. I think it is “The” and want to give it the respect it deserves

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That is a natural Japanese water finishing stone, I have no idea why anyone would rate it as 1500 grit, I'm sure it is much finer.

Looks like it's from yamashiro (山城)
Not quite sure whose trade mark that is though.

 

[timwcic]

Why are you wasting time posting that here when you could be selling it to an Australian right now?

If I sell it I won’t have it no more. It will be one day but not today

Tim do you know Jethro. Fikira on the other site. He has a large blog about Japanese razor stones kanji and more. I think it my be binsui. Not an expert though.
He is really helpful too if you contact him about kanji or list it in the thread on the other place.

Thanks for the reply and info. The same info has already came to me via PM. I am not on that site but a have already been on the blog. Now to find the time to research

 

[timwcic]

No miss read that I am no good at Japanese. That should be a shōhonzan awasedo don't know what all the kanji means though.

That is a natural Japanese water finishing stone, I have no idea why anyone would rate it as 1500 grit, I'm sure it is much finer.

Looks like it's from yamashiro (山城)
Not quite sure whose trade mark that is though.

Thanks Gents. When I purchased I thought it was a synthetic hone. Almost walked away but it seemed very fine grit. But now I am second guessing myself. It does not have any saw marks or signs of cutting. It does have a grain pattern it the stone. Good buy for the price equivalent to a slice of pizza and a beer

 

[MO1]

Thanks Gents. When I purchased I thought it was a synthetic hone. Almost walked away but it seemed very fine grit. But now I am second guessing myself. It does not have any saw marks or signs of cutting. It does have a grain pattern it the stone. Good buy for the price equivalent to a slice of pizza and a beer

For that price, it is a steal. I'm very jealous lol. Doesn't matter even if it is not razor grade, stones like these go for ALOT more.
Maybe someone just rubbed some steel on it dry without lapping it(since they still had the stamps on) and went like: yeah this is 1500 grit
How do you find its hardness?

 

[timwcic]

No miss read that I am no good at Japanese. That should be a shōhonzan awasedo don't know what all the kanji means though.

That is a natural Japanese water finishing stone, I have no idea why anyone would rate it as 1500 grit, I'm sure it is much finer.

Looks like it's from yamashiro (山城)
Not quite sure whose trade mark that is though.

Going my homework and researching. If I am interpreting correctly, I have a shobudani???. Still have more work to do. have not played with it yet to discover hardness

 

[MO1]

You have a "yamashiro", most of the times stones are referred to the mine they come from and this one is "yamashiro". 山城国特産. I did some digging in this with the help of my wife, and 山城国 read as "yamashironokuni" is an old way of referring to south Kyoto. So before south Kyoto was apparently called yamashironokuni(山城国)
山城国特産 Yamashironokuni tokusan, tokusan kind of means "speciality of that area".
"Speciality of yamashironokuni" would probably be more accurate. The meaning has a tone of a stone that is found nowhere else.

The upper kanji reads as 登録 (touroku, registered), 商標 (shouhyou, trademark)

朝日(asahi, seems to be the company's name (the red mark in the top))

最優良 (saiyuuryou, top quality)

本正山 (honshouyama or honshouzan)

合砥 (awasedo, finishing stone)

大阪(oosaka) 中井(nakai, this is a name not sure if it's for a person or a company)

Most is old Japanese with old kanji, so we couldn't
really find the last 2 kanjis.
This is not a 100% as we are no experts, but I hope it will be of some use.

 

[timwcic]

Yes @MO1 that is very helpful and informative. Thank you to you and yours for going out if your way and for all your time.

If I understand correctly, you are calling it a yamashiro, a 最優良 top quality 正本山 honshouyama (true mountain) 合砥 finishing stone from 山城国特産 Speciality of yamashironokuni (South Kyoto)

Does using “yamashironokuni" as the old way of referring to south Kyoto help date the stone?

Going to go out if my way and lap the bottom for a test drive. It is going to jump to the top of the test pile. Just by finger feel, it is going to be nice. To be siting NOS for all these years and end up in a thrift stone. Right place, right time

 

[fikira]

You have a "yamashiro", most of the times stones are referred to the mine they come from and this one is "yamashiro". 山城国特産. I did some digging in this with the help of my wife, and 山城国 read as "yamashironokuni" is an old way of referring to south Kyoto. So before south Kyoto was apparently called yamashironokuni(山城国)
山城国特産 Yamashironokuni tokusan, tokusan kind of means "speciality of that area".
"Speciality of yamashironokuni" would probably be more accurate. The meaning has a tone of a stone that is found nowhere else.
The upper kanji reads as 登録 (touroku, registered), 商標 (shouhyou, trademark)
朝日(asahi, seems to be the company's name (the red mark in the top))
最優良 (saiyuuryou, top quality)
本正山 (honshouyama or honshouzan)
合砥 (awasedo, finishing stone)
大阪(oosaka) 中井(nakai, this is a name not sure if it's for a person or a company)

Most is old Japanese with old kanji, so we couldn't
really find the last 2 kanjis.
This is not a 100% as we are no experts, but I hope it will be of some use.

Couldn't explained it better!

朝日 (Asahi) means "Morning sun" (Hence the trademark of a red "Morning sun")
中井 (Nakai) above 特撰 (Tokusen = "special selected") is not clear for me as well.
On that place a "name" (of a company? Miner?) is often seen though.

About Yamashiro:

山城國 (Ancient) = 山城国 = Yamashiro Province (山城国 Yamashiro no Kuni)
this was a province of Japan, located in Kinai. It overlaps the southern part of
modern Kyoto Prefecture on Honshū. Yamashiro Province included Kyoto itself,
as in 794 AD Yamashiro became the seat of the imperial court, and, during
the Muromachi period, was the seat of the Ashikaga shogunate as well.
The capital remained in Yamashiro until its de facto move to Tokyo in the 1870’s.

Once, a great area around Kyoto, Nara and maybe even Osaka was included in the
“Yamashiro no Kuni” area (over 1000 years of history!). Trough history, the area
became smaller, until, after the second world war to this present day, “Kyu Yamashiro”
or “Old Yamashiro” beholds the area just to the west of the city limits of Kyoto
with the Umegahata village as the center and including Narutaki and Takao.
​

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Jethro

​

 

[timwcic]

Couldn't explained it better!

朝日 (Asahi) means "Morning sun" (Hence the trademark of a red "Morning sun")
中井 (Nakai) above 特撰 (Tokusen = "special selected") is not clear for me as well.
On that place a "name" (of a company? Miner?) is often seen though.

About Yamashiro:

山城國 (Ancient) = 山城国 = Yamashiro Province (山城国 Yamashiro no Kuni)
this was a province of Japan, located in Kinai. It overlaps the southern part of
modern Kyoto Prefecture on Honshū. Yamashiro Province included Kyoto itself,
as in 794 AD Yamashiro became the seat of the imperial court, and, during
the Muromachi period, was the seat of the Ashikaga shogunate as well.
The capital remained in Yamashiro until its de facto move to Tokyo in the 1870’s.

Once, a great area around Kyoto, Nara and maybe even Osaka was included in the
“Yamashiro no Kuni” area (over 1000 years of history!). Trough history, the area
became smaller, until, after the second world war to this present day, “Kyu Yamashiro”
or “Old Yamashiro” beholds the area just to the west of the city limits of Kyoto
with the Umegahata village as the center and including Narutaki and Takao.
​

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Jethro

​

Thank you for another full plate of knowledge and also your blog for the information contained within.

Lapped the back of the stone. It is on the hard side. It was not the hardest to lap, but not the easiest. Pulled a shave ready Puma to test. Killed the edge on a glass. Made a DMT slurry for the test. First thing I noticed it has a velvet smooth feedback, not much of any feel of grit on the blade. Work the blade in a pseudo Ax Method. Worked the slurry and was surprised to generated swarf faster than I would have expected for being so smooth. Ended with a few floating passes on water only. Edge was nicely polished with a slight haze to the eye and tree topped every hair it touched. Finished on my Kanayama #3 and was rewarded with a very nice, smooth, easy shave. I like this stone, it is a fine finisher and not the 1.5 K that was written on the box

 

[fikira]

Nice! Very nice!

 

[LJS]

Deep purple hone mystery to me. Grain nothing like BBW. More similar to slate but not a new hone and just not one I am familiar with. Have not put steel to it. Pics below with little BBW for comparison and one with dark blue thuringian, again mostly for comparison to help show color.

 

[kcb5150]

Vosgienne most likely

 

[LJS]

I really don’t know anything about vosigienne. I tried some googling around which mostly came back to B&B website with a lot of varying opinions which was interesting.

What are some tell-tails to look for on a vosigienne and where would you put it as a finisher? Natural stones are all individual I know, so I am asking about vosigienne in general please.

Thanks again for help with continued ID. Trying not to spam the forum with my mystery stones.

 

[David]

Trying not to spam the forum with my mystery stones.

Keep them coming we all enjoy a good mystery stone.

 

[stone and strop]

Vosgienne most likely

This is my guess. Looks very similar.

 

[kcb5150]

One is there is a certain secondary layer of surface craze to them that uk and vermont slates just don't have. You can really see it in raking light. Some have it more than others. Two is the saw marks. You see those on a lot of them. Three when you give it a go will be the speed. Of the western hones I know of, I feel nothing will give you as much cutting power relative to absolute fineness as a vosgienne.

 

[RobbyC]

One I’ve had sat for a long time unlapped
Came totally coated in oil, but came up clean with minimal effort
It’s a fairly soft stone, deep purple red in colour and measures roughly 9 x 2 x 1”
It’s fine, currently in the process of honing and polishing 10 razors so I’ll take a shave ready edge to it later
My guess is Lorraine rouge or similar?