My Solid Set Restore

[catherix]

Picked up my first vintage brush the other day at a local antique shop. I passed up 2 everreadys and bought this one(kinda kicking myself for that), but hopefully they'll still be there after Christmas. I just liked the shape of this one and it looked like it would be a great project. I do have some questions that I hope you all may be able to help with as well.

Here she is straight from the antique store:

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The knot was a bit loose and wiggling around so I grabbed the pliers and gave it a gentle pull. The whole knot popped straight out, and went straight into the trash. But I was left with a terrible smelling mess of glue and plaster to clean up inside.

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The outside of the handle was yellowed and a bit spotted. There was some decent sized scratches on the blue part as well. The mold lines on the bottom that held on the bottom circular disc were jagged and had small gaps/cracks. I decided that this needed some serious sanding and that the inside needed a major cleanout to get rid of the smell and give me some peace of mind that it was sanitary. Queue the dremel and sand paper....(see the next post for more pics as well...)

 

[catherix]

Started with the dremel and a tool that I realize now is my best friend in this step of the project.

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As I started getting the glue out and the handle cleaned up I started becoming a perfectionist and ended up cleaning ALL the glue of the walls of the handle. That leaves a bit of a concave surface and ended up leaving a flat bed of plaster(that's plaster right?). I think that I will need to fill the walls with something in the future to provide a proper hole for the knot to sit in, so I might regret that.

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That concludes my dremel work(for now.....). On to sanding.
I really wanted to bring out the white on the handle and smooth out the lines so I started with some 60 and really went to town. Here's a pic with before and after a bit of sanding; quite the difference and it only got better from here.

 

[catherix]

From here I had a couple things that I wanted to fix. I noticed the handle wasn't sitting straight, it was leaning to one side. I also wanted to get the mold lines off the bottom of the handle smoothed out. I decided to grab the sander and go to town on the bottom of the brush to flatten it out. That was a bad idea...stayed tuned on that one. In the meantime I went on the sanding with 180 and smoooooothed it out again. It won't be nearly enough to get me where I want to be but its enough for one day.

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So now the problems. My quest to have the brush stand up straight also broke through the bottom of the brush and left me staring down plaster. From another of my threads I was told that this would be a problem in the end because if it gets wet it will expand and likely ruin the handle.

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A quick picture for reference for the onslaught of questions to follow:

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Alright, a few questions if I may. Thanks in advance for any advice you all can provide as this is my first restore.

1 - The wall of the handle is concave at the top and in its current state does not provide the cylinder shape that I normally see in other brush restores that you gents stuff the brush into. Should I be filling this area with something to provide that shape? If so, what in the world do I put in there?

2 - I plan to wet sand up to 1500 and the polish. Is there any reason to go to 2000 or 3000? And is Flitz the way to go for polish?

3 - I think at this point the plaster filling has to go in order to stabilize the brush. I'm thinking I should fill the brush with something to keep the bottom of the handle solid and not hollow, as well as provide weight. I was thinking epoxy would do that and provide a bed for the knot. Is that what I should use? If not, what should be used?

4 - I think I'm going to have to replace the bottom with something else at this point. I was kinda thinking of either finding another plastic disk and epoxy'ing it on there or finding another interesting circular object to make the bottom. Any suggestions on what I should do there?

5 - It looks like the hole is 19.5mm wide. I was kinda hoping to go with a 18mm knot but I wasn't sure if that was too much extra room. I'm totally okay with widening the hole and going with a bigger knot (I think it might look pretty sweet actually). How much room should the knot have at the opening of the handle?


Thank you all again for any help you can provide. I'm sorry for the long drawn out post.

 

[NexlevMM]

So far its looking good Tyler! That bottom part is a bummer, but possible to fix i think.

1.When you say concave, do you mean the top of the handle is coming inward on itself? Probably wont be able to put anything in there to push it out, as its thin plastic and might break before it bends.

2.I've seen people go as high as 2500 grit, no need to go more than that. Just make sure not to sand through the thin walls on that handle, as you found out is easy to do. Flitz works fine, so does Meguiars PlastX polish after.

3. Epoxy works well as a brush filler. Most of us have filled hollow handles full of epoxy and sat the knot right on the bed/shelf as you're thinking.

4. There have been guys who covered up the bottoms with a piece of wood (See post 168 here) Or other things that happen to fit (Gold Dollar coins, Yen, Pesos, A pocketwatch face etc) As long as you make sure to seal it up really really well with some caulk or waterproof epoxy so water doesnt get inside the brush, you're golden.

5. 19.5 can fit an 18mm knot, and maybe even a 20mm knot with a little wiggling. (I know TGN 20mm knots measure 19 sometimes, which is why I mentioned that size.) I usually go one size down from the hole, but its completely up to you.If you like bigger knots, you can always take your dremel and open the hole up a bit with a sanding drum.

Keep us posted! You're on the right track and it's all a learning experience for the next one!

 

[GDCarrington]

Here is another choice for a bottom.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/310685-Spalted-Maple-Time-Third-handle-of-those-to-come

If you use plastic puck, stick with black to retain visual balance.

Flitz is good for polishing and Meguiars PlastX is a good finishing polish.

Good fortune.

For filler, you can also use caulk, which is cheaper than epoxy and can be used on other things around the house.

 

[hig789]

Caulk is not a good filler to use IMO. unless you put a small layer and let it dry then keep doing that over about a week, if you try to fill the whole bottom at once a skin will form over the top and the inside will never cure. It takes air to cure caulk. Use epoxy to fill it, no air is required, just the chemical reaction of the hardener.

 

[Snargle]

I've used epoxy putty to fill the voids in handles. Just cut off a chunk, knead it for a few minutes to mix the two parts, and pack it in to the open areas. It hardens up quickly, adds a little weight, and isn't terribly expensive.

 

[catherix]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I really appreciate all of the advice and assistance.

I've used epoxy putty to fill the voids in handles. Just cut off a chunk, knead it for a few minutes to mix the two parts, and pack it in to the open areas. It hardens up quickly, adds a little weight, and isn't terribly expensive.

That sounds like what I might need to make fill up the voids. Is this something that would not be harmed by water? thats a bit of a concern for me; I don't want it failing on me later. Also, where can you get it?

 

[catherix]

So far its looking good Tyler! That bottom part is a bummer, but possible to fix i think.

1.When you say concave, do you mean the top of the handle is coming inward on itself? Probably wont be able to put anything in there to push it out, as its thin plastic and might break before it bends.

2.I've seen people go as high as 2500 grit, no need to go more than that. Just make sure not to sand through the thin walls on that handle, as you found out is easy to do. Flitz works fine, so does Meguiars PlastX polish after.

3. Epoxy works well as a brush filler. Most of us have filled hollow handles full of epoxy and sat the knot right on the bed/shelf as you're thinking.

4. There have been guys who covered up the bottoms with a piece of wood (See post 168 here) Or other things that happen to fit (Gold Dollar coins, Yen, Pesos, A pocketwatch face etc) As long as you make sure to seal it up really really well with some caulk or waterproof epoxy so water doesnt get inside the brush, you're golden.

5. 19.5 can fit an 18mm knot, and maybe even a 20mm knot with a little wiggling. (I know TGN 20mm knots measure 19 sometimes, which is why I mentioned that size.) I usually go one size down from the hole, but its completely up to you.If you like bigger knots, you can always take your dremel and open the hole up a bit with a sanding drum.

Keep us posted! You're on the right track and it's all a learning experience for the next one!

The bottom part is a bit of a bummer. But in the end it will be a nice challenge in the project and give me an opportunity to perfect the lines on the bottom.
The walls are about .6mm thick The top blue part is MUCH thicker so I spent more of my energy there and was very careful on the white area.

Here is another choice for a bottom.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/310685-Spalted-Maple-Time-Third-handle-of-those-to-come

If you use plastic puck, stick with black to retain visual balance.

Flitz is good for polishing and Meguiars PlastX is a good finishing polish.

Good fortune.

For filler, you can also use caulk, which is cheaper than epoxy and can be used on other things around the house.

Where might I get a plastic puck?? I think that may be my preferred solution if I can't find one of the neat things that NexlevMM had recommended. The watch face looks awesome.

Caulk is not a good filler to use IMO. unless you put a small layer and let it dry then keep doing that over about a week, if you try to fill the whole bottom at once a skin will form over the top and the inside will never cure. It takes air to cure caulk. Use epoxy to fill it, no air is required, just the chemical reaction of the hardener.

Thanks for pointing this out. Can the epoxy be used to adhere the future bottom to the handle as well??

 

[catherix]

Alright and now that I've asked 300 more questions, here's some updates:

I spent today working on the inside and the outside to prepare for the rest of the steps I'll need to take to finish this restore.
First thing first, that bottom had to go. There was not going to be any way to repair and seal the area I had busted open so instead it had to be removed and cleaned up. Grab the dremel and popped in the cutting/grinding disc attachment. Lightly grind the edges of the bottom disc until the bottom disc came loose.

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As you can see the plaster had discolored from the other day. Its not really humid here but the handle had been sitting in the bathroom next to the rest of my gear so maybe the moisture from the shower is the culprit. Either way this stuff needs to be cleaned out. Now I discovered that the walls of the handle are extremely thin so removing the plaster inside needed to be done carefully. I grabbed the wire brush disc attachment(see second picture in post 2) and selected a low speed to gently and slowly remove the plaster. Proper face covering was necessary to keep from inhaling whatever this stuff is. The result after about 20 minutes of VERY careful removal:

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Now that its clean on the inside its time for a proper sanding. I had finished a go with the 180 the last time so I started with 320 today. I had sanded dry before to get the bulk of the grossness off, but today I sanded wet. Brought the bottom of the handle to 600 before I started to worry that I might break through the thin walls. I'm calling it good there as I can't see any scratches on this part of the handle from sanding anyways and it feels smooth as heck right now. However the top part of the handle is MUCH MUCH thicker. I continued there until I reached 1500 grit and ended with a pretty darn smooth look.

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Unfortunately I have no natural light at this hour so the pictures of the result are poorly lit at this point. There is a small amount of scratches along the edge where the blue meets the white that are from a lower grit that I was unable to get rid of. I went back up several levels and worked my way back to 1500 and got rid of a good amount of it. At this point its hardly noticeable so I'm calling it good. I still may go to 2000 or 3000 but I haven't decided yet.

Now I need to find a good replacement bottom for the brush and then fill the handle with epoxy and epoxy putty to create the properly shaped knot bed. Then order the knot and pop it in. I'll keep you all posted on the progress. Thanks for reading!

 

[hig789]

Before you set the knot, if you want to pay shipping both ways i'll buff that sucker up for you and make it a mirror. I had on just like that and it takes a amazing shine. PM me if you are interested.

 

[catherix]

Before you set the knot, if you want to pay shipping both ways i'll buff that sucker up for you and make it a mirror. I had on just like that and it takes a amazing shine. PM me if you are interested.

Matt, funny you mention that. My buddy was telling me that I should bring it over and give it a good buffing(he's got the proper tech to do so). You may have convinced me on that. Question tho(of course ) - what type of wheel do you need to do so? And are you using any sort of compound to do the polishing? And do you polish the handle with the usual method before buffing? or after buffing? or not at all?

Excuse my ignorance, I don't know much about all that. May just take you up on the offer either way Not sure if I would want to front the costs for all the proper stuff to buff it myself and I wouldn't wanna mess it up.

 

[NexlevMM]

Before you set the knot, if you want to pay shipping both ways i'll buff that sucker up for you and make it a mirror. I had on just like that and it takes a amazing shine. PM me if you are interested.

I can vouch for Matt, sent him a handle and it came out wonderfully. I'd send him my butterscotches, althought I'm afraid they'd get "lost in the mail"

 

[catherix]

I can vouch for Matt, sent him a handle and it came out wonderfully. I'd send him my butterscotches, althought I'm afraid they'd get "lost in the mail"

Oh, I'm not worried about Matt. I happen to own a VERY nice Slim that I purchased from him. It polished up pretty darn nice too.

 

[Snargle]

That sounds like what I might need to make fill up the voids. Is this something that would not be harmed by water? thats a bit of a concern for me; I don't want it failing on me later. Also, where can you get it?

Epoxy putty should be available at any decent hardware store or big box home store [Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.] It's waterproof.

 

[hig789]

You have to be very careful when buffing plastic. I use Caswells white compound on a spiral sewn wheel, then blue compound on a loose buff, the Flitz or Maas, and finally Mothers Plastic Polish. My buffer runs very slow compared to bench buffers. I have never taken the time to figure out the RPMs, but it is slower than 1725 rpm, most bench buffers run at 3500rpm. On that fast of a wheel you will melt it quick with no compound on the wheel especially since the top of that handle is very thin.

 

[AjaxLepinski]

I'm no expert on brush handle restoration but, you can get clear, polyester resin called "Ding All" from a local surfboard shop or online. Surfboard resin is clear, waterproof and can be sanded and polished. It comes in small kits that will make about 4 ounces of mix. You can make a cylindrical mold pour the resin/catalyst mix in and stick the brush handle on top. It hardens in a few hours and can be sanded and polished the next day.

 

[Omak]

I'm looking at a similar job, OP. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/310034-Bought-a-lot-of-brushes

There is a suggestion in there halfway down or so to make the disc out of wood with a link. It looks nice though I think I'm going to try to find some acrylic though no where around me through google seems to have any.

Does anyone know popular places to buy acrylic sheets that are colored?

 

[catherix]

Epoxy putty should be available at any decent hardware store or big box home store [Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.] It's waterproof.

Thanks Larry! Sounds like that's the way to go. I'm gonna try to pick some up this weekend.

 

[catherix]

You have to be very careful when buffing plastic. I use Caswells white compound on a spiral sewn wheel, then blue compound on a loose buff, the Flitz or Maas, and finally Mothers Plastic Polish. My buffer runs very slow compared to bench buffers. I have never taken the time to figure out the RPMs, but it is slower than 1725 rpm, most bench buffers run at 3500rpm. On that fast of a wheel you will melt it quick with no compound on the wheel especially since the top of that handle is very thin.

Yep, that all went over my head. Hopefully once I buy a house I'll have the room in the garage to play around with stuff like this.