My new E2 1959 Fatboy ..... Settings question

[Adam18]

Hello Gentlemen ..... A little help and sage advice please. I know that you guys can help me.
I just purchased my second vintage Gillette razor, a 1959 E2 FatBoy in excellent condition.
(Thank you "drewmac" on the B-S-T forum ----- the razor looks pretty darn perfect !)
It will be a lovely companion to my birth year 1955 A2 Super Speed RedTip. But .....
as I'm loving the RedTip, what setting should I try for my first shave with the FatBoy ?
I'd like the shave to be comparable in closeness, comfort, and efficiency to the RedTip.
Thanks for your thoughts and intelligent guidance.

 

[Old School TSD]

1-3 blue tip, 4-6 regular, 7-9 red tip.
Enjoy!

 

[Adam18]

1-3 blue tip, 4-6 regular, 7-9 red tip.
Enjoy!

Perfect ! Thank You !

 

[Adam18]

First shave with my new FatBoy .... Initial WTG and XTG passes on level 7, and a third ATG pass on level 5.
Pretty darn perfect ! Smooth comfortable BBS result with absolutely no irritation or weepers.

 

[CCS]

First shave with my new FatBoy .... Initial WTG and XTG passes on level 7, and a third ATG pass on level 5.
Pretty darn perfect ! Smooth comfortable BBS result with absolutely no irritation or weepers.

It's a great razor. I've had a 195 for some years and recently bought a Slim to see if the smaller head worked a little better under my nose (it does). As was pointed out upthread, the 195 was designed to put three Super Speeds into one razor according to Gillette internal docs shown on the Razor Emporium's YT channel. So, theoretically, Setting a 195 on 7-9 should approximate the red tip SS. It probably doesn't seeing as though the ergonomics are so different but is a reasonable compromise. I only have the standard silver SS which would be 4-6 on the 195 but they shave nothing alike although they both shave equally well. Just differently due to the head sizes, handles, and balance differences.

 

[garyg]

I'll chime in & agree, shaved with a Fat Boy I believe about 1963 or 1964, right now I haven't used the Red Tip in a while but Fat Boy is on 7 .. having been around a while I think that the settings might change over the years, nice thing about any adjustable is you can tweak it to you liking

 

[LRod]

The Fat boy on 7-9 is nothing like the Red Tip (to me). It's more like a 5 setting!
The Red Tip isn't agressive at all, it's just heavier than the normal & blue tip. Once you get into any of the adjustables on a setting higher than 5, then they're very different (and more agressive) razors than the Super Speeds.
When I first got my Gillette adjustables, I went straight to a 9 as the starting point and worked my way down. I shave daily so the 9 was too much. I settled on 5 for the Fatboy and 4 for the Slim.

 

[Adam18]

The Fat boy on 7-9 is nothing like the Red Tip (to me). It's more like a 5 setting!

That's a perfect example of why we are all fine gentlemen here on Badger & Blade.
We all have our own different opinions, there is no "right or wrong," and we can easily agree to disagree !

 

[CCS]

That's a perfect example of why we are all fine gentlemen here on Badger & Blade.
We all have our own different opinions, there is no "right or wrong," and we can easily agree to disagree !

Which is why NO one should ever take the recommendations for gear or shaving products on this site or any shaving site much less any recommendations from any social media site. Buy only where there's a great return policy or if you're willing to eat the loss (or be stuck selling for a loss) because you realize, after the fact, that some soap company's chocolate tobacco scent or other candy wood asparagus smell isn't for you after all.

 

[Alum Ladd]

The Fat boy on 7-9 is nothing like the Red Tip (to me). It's more like a 5 setting!
The Red Tip isn't agressive at all, it's just heavier than the normal & blue tip. Once you get into any of the adjustables on a setting higher than 5, then they're very different (and more agressive) razors than the Super Speeds.
When I first got my Gillette adjustables, I went straight to a 9 as the starting point and worked my way down. I shave daily so the 9 was too much. I settled on 5 for the Fatboy and 4 for the Slim.

There is something to @LRod's point though, @Adam18 and it is just one more of those Gillette enigmas which I am finding increasingly fascinating.

The US Red Tip (all figures taken from the B&B resource Double Edged Safety Razors Ranked By Blade Gap) has a gap of .73mm Which is slightly above the English Rocket HD at .70mm. What with the Red Tip's added heft I would expect it to shave pretty much like an English HD Rocket.

The English Red Tip does have a slightly higher gap than it's US cousin at .81mm. All of these are covered by the 195 Adjustable's setting 5, which is .81mm

After this though, the 195's settings at 6 (.89mm) setting 7 (.97mm) setting 8 (1.04mm) and setting 9 (1.14mm) are off the scales. It seems obvious then that the 195 Adjustable above setting 5 was the most 'aggressive' solid bar razor Gillette had ever developed and sold.

Why?

I certainly believed that the standard idea of 195 setting 1-3 was a Blue Tip, 4-6 a standard, and 7-9 was approximating a Red Tip, but these blade gaps seem to totally disprove that.

Were Gillette US starting to get uncomfortable with the English divisions' increasing tendency to make more 'aggressive' razors? Remember Boston did not tool up the Gillette London plant to make the 195. Indeed the 195 and successor adjustables were only made in the US. I doubt whether it was backwardness on the part of the London plant to make them. Did they think Gillette London would go rogue with the new design, and tinker, and maybe improve?

I believe the 195's new settings at 5 and above were designed to take on and defeat the German Merkur Progress which had come out in 1956. Also to take on the French Gibbs, and to future proof the design against any new rival adjustables that popped up. But Gillette seemed to fail to follow through by aggressively pushing into those markets.

The Progress at setting 1 is 38mm, the 195 at setting 1 is .56mm, the Progress at 2 is also .56mm. The Progress at 3 is .71mm where the 195 at 3 is .66mm. at setting 4 the Progress is .84mm while the 195 is .74mm. At setting 5 the Progress is .94mm with the 195 is .81mm.

At setting 6 the 195 is .89mm, at setting 7, .97mm, at setting 8, 1.04mm and at 9, a whopping 1.14mm, far higher than anything Gillette had yet attempted.

If Gillette had increased production capacity for the 195 by adding a London production line, and maybe a German one, they could have flooded Europe with the 195. I think they made a great error by not doing this. They would have made a complete killing. This is why 195's are relatively rare in Europe, and the Progress managed to survive and thrive.

Double-Edged Safety Razors Ranked by Blade Gap - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/wiki/Double-Edged_Safety_Razors_Ranked_by_Blade_Gap

 

[LRod]

Which is why NO one should ever take the recommendations for gear or shaving products on this site or any shaving site much less any recommendations from any social media site. Buy only where there's a great return policy or if you're willing to eat the loss (or be stuck selling for a loss) because you realize, after the fact, that some soap company's chocolate tobacco scent or other candy wood asparagus smell isn't for you after all.

I believe @Adam18 was referring to the fact that I added "to me" in my statement. Which means that it's my individual result that I shared without the expectation of anyone actually following my un-science

Now, if I were to have never taken any advice here, I'd probably be still using an electric. Or better (worse) yet, tearing my face repeatedly with the first DE that I ever used back when I started. I for one value the advice/opinions but am fully aware of which ones to try and which ones to ignore.

YMMV,
LRod

 

[LRod]

There is something to
All of these are covered by the 195 Adjustable's setting 5, which is .81mm

After this though, the 195's settings at 6 (.89mm) setting 7 (.97mm) setting 8 (1.04mm) and setting 9 (1.14mm) are off the scales. It seems obvious then that the 195 Adjustable above setting 5 was the most 'aggressive' solid bar razor Gillette had ever developed and sold.

Why?

I certainly believed that the standard idea of 195 setting 1-3 was a Blue Tip, 4-6 a standard, and 7-9 was approximating a Red Tip, but these blade gaps seem to disprove that.

I didn't know any of these blade gaps till you posted them. Just the feel of the shaves between the Red Tip and the adjustables was enough to let me know that the "5" setting is the closest match. So in my view, there is a definite correlation between the shave results, setting # and blade gap!

 

[HazMat Shaver]

Great info shared above. I like my 195/Fatboy on 6. But thats just me. I havent tried to measure the blade gap or exposure but 6 wirks for my face.
But as it was said, head shape and weight does make a difference when comparing razors.

 

[Ron R]

I like to use my Fatboy on setting 7 for WTG + ATG and for pickups go to setting 8-9 because of low laying flattened whiskers.
I will leave some information that I found along my wonderings and this might help others also. Enjoy your new Fatboy Adam!
Gillette Fatboy chart used by salesman.

(A old archived photo I took a while back with my USB microscope, this is a Gillette Slim but it will be similar to the Fatboy setting because the chart was meant for a Fatboy that sales people used for explaining to retailers when they where introduced.) There will always be +- setting accuracy depending if the razor has been altered(dropped or abused) or cleaned internally and not set properly when re-assembled.

Have some great shaves!

 

[CCS]

I like to use my Fatboy on setting 7 for WTG + ATG and for pickups go to setting 8-9 because of low laying flattened whiskers.
I will leave some information that I found along my wonderings and this might help others also. Enjoy your new Fatboy Adam!
Gillette Fatboy chart used by salesman.
View attachment 1529159
(A old archived photo I took a while back with my USB microscope, this is a Gillette Slim but it will be similar to the Fatboy setting because the chart was meant for a Fatboy that sales people used for explaining to retailers when they where introduced.) There will always be +- setting accuracy depending if the razor has been altered(dropped or abused) or cleaned internally and not set properly when re-assembled.
View attachment 1529160
Have some great shaves!

That's pretty interesting and a cool find of the sales material. I wonder if any man alive who was a consumer in those days would have been interested in the sales literature meant for the retailer re: angles and gaps. Today? Whole new story!

 

[BigJ]

Great looking razor!! Enjoy!

 

[dotKomo]

Adam,

The 59 is my birth year razor. Mine's an E2 as well, though it would have to be an E4 to match up with the month. Enjoy!

 

[DEgeezer]

I too have a 1959 E2, and have had it for years. But I'm not sure for how much longer, because a grandson has been eyeing it of late.

 

[DEgeezer]

I got busy this morning and I missed the Wednesday club ride. So I did a short solo mt. bike ride. Short, because it was already too hot for comfort!