My Jnat Journey

[Tomo]

I’m getting ready to start my journey into the rabbit hole of Japanese Natural whetstones and thought I’d start a journal to document my progress. I’ll be happy for any advise that I receive along the way as I navigate my way into this new world. I have been straight razor shaving for about five years and hone all my own razors. I’ve tried Jnats in the past but with mixed results. I have dulled more razors on them than I’ve sharpened. Much like the single good golf shot that brings you back the next week, I have experienced isolated moments of success. That’s what bringing me back again now.

My reasons for starting this journey are the same as what brought me to straight razor shaving in the first place. I’m interested in learning a new skill and I’m looking for the best possible shave. Ease and convenience are not particularly high on my priority list. I hope to get enough pointers through the thread to enable me to recreate some of the edges that have converted so many people to these stones. I’m convinced there are excellent edges waiting for me if I’m able to unlock their secrets.

No doubt there will be mistakes and missteps along the way. Hopefully these will help others to find a more direct path to success in the future. I invite all of the Jnat converts in the group to follow along and chip in wherever they can. I am open to suggestions.

 

[Legion]

Good luck with it. I’ll be interested to see how it turns out.

I have a few Jnats that I acquired more through luck than knowledge, and some others I call “probably Jnats”, because I don’t know what else they could be. I still have no real names or provenance for them, though several of them leave a good edge.

To be honest, disappearing down that rabbit hole has alway seemed a bit too daunting, so I’ll be watching your progress.

 

[Christian1212]

My recommendation is making sure you buy from a good vendor (preferably one that test the stones with razors). There's a lot of "okay" stones and a few really great ones IMO. Wouldn't waste time trying out bouts from the bay. My favorite vendor is Zen Razor when he has them, after that though I like Keith and JNS (both of these options have some decent stones for sell atm).

When testing the stone, I would stick to using it for finishing only to start. Progressions on them are really fun once you know where the finish line is at.

 

[dunadan]

Watching with interest. Is there a beginner guide to Jnats, that details the different kinds/types?

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Well, it’s about time.

If you have not already, start with Alex Gilmore’s website (Japanstones.com) there are lots of good video and tons of information. Few English-speaking vendors have the hands-on experience and personal contacts, that Alex has.

Second, buy Alex's book, "Japanese Sharpening Stone Heaven”. You will learn more about Japanese Stones and honing than you will reading any post or blog. There is important, useful information on Jnats, in that book that I have never read in any online, post, blog or website. It will be your best investment in your Jnat journey.

It really is not that big of a rabbit hone, unless you try to do it on the cheap, buying eBay clunkers, in the blind and buying better stones inch by inch. You do not need to spend thousands on a stone, but as said, buy from a known Jnat vendor, Alex still sells quality stones.

And as said start using the Jnat as just a finisher from a good 8-12k edge is a no brainer. Nagura is another rabbit hole to watch out for. Personally, I use a Tsushima nagura jumping from a near mirror 8k Snow White or 10 Suehiro to lay down a uniform kasumi finish, and finish on Diamond Slurry from the stone face. Dirt simple.

I do have a couple of Alex’s stones that produce screaming keen and smooth edges that rival vintage hard Arks. The Jnat is the only stone that can rival a fine Ark edge, for me.

 

[Koop]

This may be a bit long winded - I'm just beginning my Jnat razor honing journey. My first Jnat was a while back, before I had a straight razor. I'm a Japanese kitchen knife enthusiast and I bought a black Tsushima stone to finish the edge of some of my knives. It took a lot of learning before I could improve a 3K synthetic edge with it, but I persevered. I don't think the Tsushima is suitable for razors - you could use it in a progression as a middle stone, but a synthetic would be easier and more consistent.

Then I took up straight razors. I think I was drawn to the honing learning curve as much as the actual shaving experience. It turned out both curves were steeper than I expected. I was challenged to climb that curve - it was a hill I knew I could climb, but I couldn't run up it. I was drawn once again to a natural finishing stone from the start.

I learned to bevel set and refine on synthetics. At first I used a progression of 1k Cerax to 3k Ouka and then on to a coticule with disappointing results. Then I bought a 5k Rika to use before jumping to the coticule. I experimented with different coticule approaches - dilucot to running water. I still couldn't find the keeness for a smooth shave.

About the time I ordered an ILR to finish with (after the coti), my neighbor gifted me a translucent Arkansas that he had for years and only used a couple of times. He's a wood carver and it was too slow for his carving knives. The stone is a Bear branded Norton from the late 50s to early 60s. I started using it after the coti and it improved the finish. But, it was a very unforgiving stone. More than once I nicked an edge by drawing over the corner of the stone and had to start over. It finally dawned on me to chamfer the edges of the stone and round the corners carefully so as not to chip it.

Meanwhile I experimented with the ILR and had reasonable results with it. All the while I was buying good quality used razors and honing frequently. My honing skills improved and the results showed it. I added a King Gold 8k synthetic to the progression before a natural finisher.

Then I found Jnats on BST. I was intrigued and messaged the seller - member @Eshebert. I hope Eric doen't mind me mentioning his name. I needed some way to verify the stones quality. I put 2+2 together and realized he had a YouTube channel. I'm a subsciber to his channel - The Cajun Blade. I looked back and saw videos of his stones in use. I knew what the stones were capable of in his skilled hands and bought them immediately. Tomo for each stone was included. Eric told me I would find them easier to learn and use than my coti or Ark.

I started using them right away - that was a couple of weeks ago. Eric was right. I've been honing on them almost daily as a I convert my edges to Jnat. I'm still learning, but right from the start I had my best results and get better HHT than ever. The shave is the real test and my edges shave smooth while being very keen. I'm in love with Jnats. I bought a few razors that were finished by a competent honer on a 12k Super stone. They were sharp for sure, but I didn't find them to be comfortable shaving experiences.

You can learn a lot about the stones - Jnat history, mine, stone types etc on this site. My next Jnat is on the way from a Japanese vendor. I also have cashew laquer coming and will learn how to seal my new stone. I won't give up on the Ark, coti or slate, but I'll have to find time and a reason to learn to get the results I want from them. The adventure continues!

 

[rhgg2]

Will second looking at the natural whetstones site (@gbupp's pages).

I think JNATs are a lot less mysterious than they appear. There are all the wild names but actually they are quite prosaic names, just in Japanese. They are just honing stones, much like yoga is just calisthenics. If you can handle an ark I don't think you will have any problems with a jnat.

As important as a good stone is a good tomo imo. Maksim sent me a very nice stone but the tomo was really quite soft and not that fine, so I don't find much use for it. Keith or Alex I am sure would ensure you have an excellently matched tomo.

If you want to try auctions the logical choice is yahoo auctions japan via buyee. eBay generally sucks for JNATs here in Australia, though sometimes @PanL has some stones listed. If you are going to try auctions I would read carefully the stuff about density calculations on the natural stones site, which is v helpful in avoiding ridiculously soft and muddy knife stones.

 

[silverlifter]

A bit closer to home, there is a seller in Auckland who has a collection of Japanese razors and stones; the two stones I have bought from him have both been stellar. Hit me up if you want to see his current offerings or talk to him about what he has.

 

[Koop]

Well, it’s about time.

If you have not already, start with Alex Gilmore’s website (Japanstones.com) there are lots of good video and tons of information. Few English-speaking vendors have the hands-on experience and personal contacts, that Alex has.

Second, buy Alex's book, "Japanese Sharpening Stone Heaven”. You will learn more about Japanese Stones and honing than you will reading any post or blog. There is important, useful information on Jnats, in that book that I have never read in any online, post, blog or website. It will be your best investment in your Jnat journey.

It really is not that big of a rabbit hone, unless you try to do it on the cheap, buying eBay clunkers, in the blind and buying better stones inch by inch. You do not need to spend thousands on a stone, but as said, buy from a known Jnat vendor, Alex still sells quality stones.

And as said start using the Jnat as just a finisher from a good 8-12k edge is a no brainer. Nagura is another rabbit hole to watch out for. Personally, I use a Tsushima nagura jumping from a near mirror 8k Snow White or 10 Suehiro to lay down a uniform kasumi finish, and finish on Diamond Slurry from the stone face. Dirt simple.

I do have a couple of Alex’s stones that produce screaming keen and smooth edges that rival vintage hard Arks. The Jnat is the only stone that can rival a fine Ark edge, for me.

I learned a lot from the naturalwhetstones site for free - but that didn't stop me from ordering Alex's book today. I'm fascinated by the history of straight razors and honing stones.

 

[Tomo]

Good luck with it. I’ll be interested to see how it turns out.

I have a few Jnats that I acquired more through luck than knowledge, and some others I call “probably Jnats”, because I don’t know what else they could be. I still have no real names or provenance for them, though several of them leave a good edge.

To be honest, disappearing down that rabbit hole has alway seemed a bit too daunting, so I’ll be watching your progress.

I’ve felt the same way until now. I’ve dabbled but never fully committed. I’ve tried a few big stones but never got into the smaller Nagura rub stones. When the going got tough I simply switched to easier options. This time I want to give it a fair shake.

 

[Tomo]

My recommendation is making sure you buy from a good vendor (preferably one that test the stones with razors). There's a lot of "okay" stones and a few really great ones IMO. Wouldn't waste time trying out bouts from the bay. My favorite vendor is Zen Razor when he has them, after that though I like Keith and JNS (both of these options have some decent stones for sell atm).

When testing the stone, I would stick to using it for finishing only to start. Progressions on them are really fun once you know where the finish line is at.

Buying from a reputable vendor comes up a bit with Jnats. Unfortunately, the options are fairly limited in Australia. I will check out Zen and @silverlifter ‘s contact in NZ. The only other ones I’m aware of are below.


Internationally shipping:
- Japan Natural Stone (Maksim) in Denmark - - Aframes Tokoyo (Takeshi) in Hawaii


USA only:
- TomoNagura Etsy shop run by Keith ships to USA
- Alex Gilmore appointment only in California

Australia:
There is a local guy with a shop called “Kaz’s Knife and Kitchenware” in Melbourne (Prahran). I’m not sure if anyone has been there. He seems to be more focused on Knives but he has a selection of Jnats in his B&M store. He also does knife sharpening and runs knife sharpening classes. Could be worth a look.

 

[Tomo]

Well, it’s about time.

If you have not already, start with Alex Gilmore’s website (Japanstones.com) there are lots of good video and tons of information. Few English-speaking vendors have the hands-on experience and personal contacts, that Alex has.

Second, buy Alex's book, "Japanese Sharpening Stone Heaven”. You will learn more about Japanese Stones and honing than you will reading any post or blog. There is important, useful information on Jnats, in that book that I have never read in any online, post, blog or website. It will be your best investment in your Jnat journey.

It really is not that big of a rabbit hone, unless you try to do it on the cheap, buying eBay clunkers, in the blind and buying better stones inch by inch. You do not need to spend thousands on a stone, but as said, buy from a known Jnat vendor, Alex still sells quality stones.

And as said start using the Jnat as just a finisher from a good 8-12k edge is a no brainer. Nagura is another rabbit hole to watch out for. Personally, I use a Tsushima nagura jumping from a near mirror 8k Snow White or 10 Suehiro to lay down a uniform kasumi finish, and finish on Diamond Slurry from the stone face. Dirt simple.

I do have a couple of Alex’s stones that produce screaming keen and smooth edges that rival vintage hard Arks. The Jnat is the only stone that can rival a fine Ark edge, for me.

The book looks like a nice resource. I put in a pre-order for it today. There’s no point having the car if you don’t have a map.

 

[natto]

I am just a beginner, needed sth to get a good edge with my heavy handed strokes. A hard stone might do the trick. First thing I found was an cheap Ozuku Koppa, without pics, from a reliable toolshop here around. I got a triangle, and the small corner
made a cutoff nagura.

to me raising a slurry and breaking it sounded easy enough, so I tried. Raising a thick slurry took me some time. Breaking that slurry took much longer. But it worked like promised. So far I got close and smooth shaving edges.

Of course that process can be improved. The thick slurry is needed to clean up my soso edges. A thinner slurry should offer a closer shave, but less smooth. The edge can be adjusted to preferences. And as I know now, Ozuku slurry is known to need a lot of work to break.

From that experience I would say try slurry break down. It should work on every reasonable jNat. And it is worth the effort.

And I like that Ozuku. That stone offers a faint feel of grinding. It takes off enough material to clean up my soso edges. I like it so much, I took another one on a discount. This time I was lucky, got a nice rectangle about 140*75*20. But that stone feels different, smoother, without that faint grinding feel. I got to check what it is worth to me... I expected the stone to be pretty similiar to the first one. Never thought to find such a different feel on two stones of the same source.

Next time I would ask for a stone that offers more easy slurry breakoff. But I will check what the rectangle do for me first. No idea what this tells you, but I got good edges and lot of fun with these koppa.

 

[Tomo]

Here’s my set up to get started. I have a couple stones that I have previously been unsuccessful with. The Shobudani Asagi came from Aframes Tokoyo and the Nakayama Koppa came from JNS. Both were advertised as razor stones. I also have a pair of mystery Mikawa Nagura that were PIF’ed to me by a member. I have every reason to believe that the stones are fine. Two duds from a reputable dealer would be pretty bad luck.

I picked a couple of rescue razors for initial testing. Both have good steel and good geometry. They currently have good shave ready edges. I was in conversation with Alex Gilmore and he suggested that not all steel will respond to all stones in the same way. He suggested to try different steel and stone combinations and take notes. These blades are vintage carbon steel from Sheffield and Solingen. They seem to be middle of the road hardness. I’ll see how I go with these first and them add a few more.

A worn 1200 Atoma diamond plate and 10x Belomo triplicate round out the accessories.

 

[Tomo]

 

[natto]

Raise DN slurry and break it? A uniform misty shine on the bevels is a good sign.

 

[rhgg2]

Buying from a reputable vendor comes up a bit with Jnats. Unfortunately, the options are fairly limited in Australia. I will check out Zen and @silverlifter ‘s contact in NZ. The only other ones I’m aware of are below.


Internationally shipping:
- Japan Natural Stone (Maksim) in Denmark - - Aframes Tokoyo (Takeshi) in Hawaii


USA only:
- TomoNagura Etsy shop run by Keith ships to USA
- Alex Gilmore appointment only in California

Australia:
There is a local guy with a shop called “Kaz’s Knife and Kitchenware” in Melbourne (Prahran). I’m not sure if anyone has been there. He seems to be more focused on Knives but he has a selection of Jnats in his B&M store. He also does knife sharpening and runs knife sharpening classes. Could be worth a look.

Maybe:
Ikkyu Japanavenue
Watanabe Blade

Locally, I know in Sydney that Knives and Stones have some JNATs.

 

[Tomo]

Tonight I tried the Solingen Dirlamit on the Shobudani.

2x Mystery Mikawa to water
Undercut became very good and it left the nice even sandblasted bevel. HHT was non-existent.

2x Milky Atoma Slurry to water
Undercut became very good. Sandblasted finish became much finer. HHT was non-existent.

2x Misty Slurry to water
Very fine sandblasted finish. Barely got HHT.

Plain water
Bevel becoming quite polished. Mediocre HHT. It doesn’t look promising but I’ll try it tomorrow.

 

[Tomo]

Shave test went better than expected. I have the razor another good strop this morning and went to it. Despite a mediocre HHT the blade was pretty sharp. There was no tugging and it even went well ATG on the upper lip. I was pleasantly surprised. Not the sharpest edge I’ve ever done but it did the job. I normally would not have shaved with an edge like that. I would have put it in the ‘I can do better bucket’. I’m sure that I still have a way to go in maxing out these stones but it’s a start.

 

[psfred]

I think I would use those stones as finishers and not try to set bevels or do mid level work on them. It can be done if they are level 5 hard, but you would need to use a nagura progression to control grit size.

Just making dense mud is probably going to round the apex too much, I don't think they work like coticules. I would set a bevel properly, use something in the 6k range to initially polish, then finish on the Jnats.