My Grande Journey

[Esox]

Link to all his fights. Ali, I mean.

Damn. This guy got a lesson...

I still havent found the fight I'm thinking of. I keep thinking it was Ali vs Max Schmeling but thats before Ali's time.

I never used to be a fan of Ali, but that was based on a memory (most definitely inaccurate) of one of his slightly later fights, maybe even the rumble in the jungle. Back then, I knew very little about boxing.

Then I watched the first fight with Sonny Liston. That changed my opinion permanently.

The interview at the end is one of my favourite parts.

"I'm the king of the world. I'm pretty. I'm a baaad man!"

I love all his fights now, as a boxer he had everything.

At the time no one had his mouth, or his movement and speed to back it up. He might not have been the hardest hitter but he could put it all together. When he did it was poetry in motion. His agility, balance, speed and reflexes were unmatched and I still think the only fighter that ever came close to all he had was Roy Jones Jr. They can say what they like about Mayweather but Roy was the best fighter I've seen. Ali didnt even have his reflexes or accuracy.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Mayweather? Fighter? Not in the same sentence.

 

[Esox]

Mayweather? Fighter? Not in the same sentence.

I skipped over the Mayweather/De La Hoya fight this afternoon. If he had met Oscar in his prime it might have ended differently.

 

[TinyT]

I can't put into words how annoyed I was when Manny Pacquiao lost to Mayweather, Pacman is better fighter but Mayweather can spoil a fight to win it. He'd have done the same to De La Hoya most likely, rolling his shoulder, single shots, no combinations. Maybe Golovkin could take him down but I doubt Mayweather would take the fight. Also, I don't think he ever fought the same boxer twice. Great champions welcome a re-match, especially from their biggest rivals. Look at Manny, Ali, Holyfield, Morales, Barerra, Sugar Ray Robinson, Gatti, Chavez the list goes on.

Bobby Chacon was another great, exciting fighter who never backed down.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Having been around him I have zero regard for the man other than to say he's the fastest and quickest human I've ever seen.

That said, he accomplished his goals.

 

[Esox]

I can't put into words how annoyed I was when Manny Pacquiao lost to Mayweather, Pacman is better fighter but Mayweather can spoil a fight to win it. He'd have done the same to De La Hoya most likely, rolling his shoulder, single shots, no combinations. Maybe Golovkin could take him down but I doubt Mayweather would take the fight. Also, I don't think he ever fought the same boxer twice. Great champions welcome a re-match, especially from their biggest rivals. Look at Manny, Ali, Holyfield, Morales, Barerra, Sugar Ray Robinson, Gatti, Chavez the list goes on.

Bobby Chacon was another great, exciting fighter who never backed down.

I like Manny. Nice guy and a warrior. Every name you mentioned but one, was a warrior.

It's funny, when I read all the names from those days I hear them in the voice of Michael Buffer lol.

That said, he accomplished his goals.

That he did and he happened to come along at just the right time.

 

[TinyT]

Every name you mentioned but one, was a warrior.

Which one? I can't work it out.

Mayweather's record of 50-0 is impossible to argue with. The man never lost. But for me, boxing is about how you respond to defeat as well. I remember looking at the records at the Beginning of the Mayweather/Pacquiao fight; 47-0 vs 56-5-2. That's 13 more fights by Pacquiao, over a quarter more than Mayweather. A perfect record only means so much. Many boxing writers say that Sugar Ray Robinson was the GOAT. His record isn't perfect but it is incredible. 173-19-6. The really amazing thing is he went 40 fights undefeated and then 128 with only one loss. That's impressive numbers.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Which one? I can't work it out.

Mayweather's record of 50-0 is impossible to argue with. The man never lost. But for me, boxing is about how you respond to defeat as well. I remember looking at the records at the Beginning of the Mayweather/Pacquiao fight; 47-0 vs 56-5-2. That's 13 more fights by Pacquiao, over a quarter more than Mayweather. A perfect record only means so much. Many boxing writers say that Sugar Ray Robinson was the GOAT. His record isn't perfect but it is incredible. 173-19-6. The really amazing thing is he went 40 fights undefeated and then 128 with only one loss. That's impressive numbers.

The idea is to hit and not get hit, but FM used his quickness and his speed to avoid the whole thing to the point I wouldn't call him a fighter or a boxer. I have no idea why anyone paid a nickel to watch him "fight," but they did and he made a fortune.

Perhaps he did what worked best for himself but it was not to the advantage of the sport in my opinion.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

Which one? I can't work it out.

Mayweather's record of 50-0 is impossible to argue with. The man never lost. But for me, boxing is about how you respond to defeat as well. I remember looking at the records at the Beginning of the Mayweather/Pacquiao fight; 47-0 vs 56-5-2. That's 13 more fights by Pacquiao, over a quarter more than Mayweather. A perfect record only means so much. Many boxing writers say that Sugar Ray Robinson was the GOAT. His record isn't perfect but it is incredible. 173-19-6. The really amazing thing is he went 40 fights undefeated and then 128 with only one loss. That's impressive numbers.

I really dont know what to say about Mayweather other than I dont like his fighting style and I didnt enjoy watching him in the ring. I cant find the words to describe how I feel about him.

Under the purest definition of boxing as a sport he is very good but theres a difference between a boxer and a fighter. Some apparently really enjoy the purest form of boxing, but when theres no heart in it, its a wasted effort as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TinyT]

but when theres no heart in it, its a wasted effort as far as I'm concerned.

So true. And that applies to much more than boxing.

 

[Esox]

Around 50 hours since last shave.

Grande/GSB (1).

Wickham Shangi La, loaded heavy.

Maggard synthetic.

Standard three pass shave with a single clean up, while playing with angles and pressures.

First pass N>S and I started steep. As steep as I could. Touching the comb to my skin and rolling the razor until I felt the blade engage. Two strokes to my jawline and 4 strokes from there to the base of my neck. Smooth, Gillette 7 O'Clock smooth. Once I got to the swirl on my neck I changed to a shallow angle and it started to tug so back to steep with almost imaginary pressure. No blood. When I got to my upper lip there was quite a bit of tugging but I just tightened my skin more and shaved through it.

Second pass S>N starting at the base of my neck, shallow again and quite tuggy. Switched on the fly to very steep again and using short strokes finished that pass with one tiny weeper left side swirl.

Third pass ATG and buffing around my chin, jawline and over my swirls. Still staying with a very steep angle and imaginary pressure. Lots of buffing, slight redness and warmth appearing over my swirls but no more blood.

Clean up pass was a smaller repeat of the previous pass. Weeper at left side swirl still...weeping.

Wiped with a damp hand towel. My neck was obviously red and a bit warm but that went away fairly quickly. I can just feel a hint of warmth still on my skin typing this.

My cheeks, jawline and face of my chin are a nice close BBS, my neck is not. I was using such little pressure that it was difficult to have a really close shave. If I would have forced the issue and used more pressure I could have had a BBS shave but it would have come at a price I'm no longer willing to pay.

Derby Extra wins!

 

[TinyT]

View attachment 1045921

Around 50 hours since last shave.

Grande/GSB (1).

Wickham Shangi La, loaded heavy.

Maggard synthetic.

Standard three pass shave with a single clean up, while playing with angles and pressures.

First pass N>S and I started steep. As steep as I could. Touching the comb to my skin and rolling the razor until I felt the blade engage. Two strokes to my jawline and 4 strokes from there to the base of my neck. Smooth, Gillette 7 O'Clock smooth. Once I got to the swirl on my neck I changed to a shallow angle and it started to tug so back to steep with almost imaginary pressure. No blood. When I got to my upper lip there was quite a bit of tugging but I just tightened my skin more and shaved through it.

Second pass S>N starting at the base of my neck, shallow again and quite tuggy. Switched on the fly to very steep again and using short strokes finished that pass with one tiny weeper left side swirl.

Third pass ATG and buffing around my chin, jawline and over my swirls. Still staying with a very steep angle and imaginary pressure. Lots of buffing, slight redness and warmth appearing over my swirls but no more blood.

Clean up pass was a smaller repeat of the previous pass. Weeper at left side swirl still...weeping.

Wiped with a damp hand towel. My neck was obviously red and a bit warm but that went away fairly quickly. I can just feel a hint of warmth still on my skin typing this.

My cheeks, jawline and face of my chin are a nice close BBS, my neck is not. I was using such little pressure that it was difficult to have a really close shave. If I would have forced the issue and used more pressure I could have had a BBS shave but it would have come at a price I'm no longer willing to pay.

Derby Extra wins!

Above and beyond the call of duty.

 

[Esox]

Above and beyond the call of duty.

Yet another great movie.

I had a similar, if less calm, one sided conversation with a boss a few years ago. Charlie Sheen was right lol.

 

[Esox]

About 50 hours since last shave.

Canadian tech, fat handle. Derby Extra (1).

P&B Iceni.

Maggard synthetic.

First pass N>S. Second pass S>N. Third pass and two clean ups ATG.

Nice and smooth but no surprise there. A close first pass too.

Second pass S>N, directly ATG on my cheeks, under my chin, face of my chin and sides of my mouth. No pulling, no tugging, no problem. Actually, very comfortable with light buffing.

Third pass and clean ups. Just as smooth but a lot of buffing on my neck increasing pressure. Weeper left side swirl which I assume was a remnant of my last shave. Second clean up was a smaller version of my first, no issues.

My skin is cool and comfortable and I have a BBS finish but I can tell it wont last my usual 12 hours and thats okay.

Almost as nice a shave as I expected. Derby Extra isnt enough blade in this razor which is what I suspected. Its still a very good blade but lacking the blade exposure of my Grande it just doesnt do the same job as easily. Not a bad thing, just not what I'm use too.

 

[TinyT]

My skin is cool and comfortable and I have a BBS finish but I can tell it wont last my usual 12 hours and thats okay.

Sounds like the kind of shave I can only dream of, but I suppose our expectations shift as we improve. I think I'm on the right road. Better be, otherwise I'm in trouble.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Wes @TinyT, it's both sometimes helpful and sometimes problematic to compare your shaves with the shaves of others.

• It's hard to be sure your whiskers are like theirs.
• It's hard to know that you evaluate shaves the same (in spite of a common standard like BBS, etc.).
• I wonder if some beards grow faster or slower than others.

I'm pretty sure most gentlemen improve over time as their technique and such improve assuming they're making some small effort to do so. Trying too hard may be counterproductive. Some of it seems to "just happen" particularly being into examining and controlling the variables as just about everyone around these parts seems to be in interested in doing.

Happy shaves and Merry Christmas,

Jim

 

[Somerled]

Wes @TinyT, it's both sometimes helpful and sometimes problematic to compare your shaves with the shaves of others.

• It's hard to be sure your whiskers are like theirs.
• It's hard to know that you evaluate shaves the same (in spite of a common standard like BBS, etc.).
• I wonder if some beards grow faster or slower than others.

View attachment 1046450

I'm pretty sure most gentlemen improve over time as their technique and such improve assuming they're making some small effort to do so. Trying too hard may be counterproductive. Some of it seems to "just happen" particularly being into examining and controlling the variables as just about everyone around these parts seems to be in interested in doing.

Happy shaves and Merry Christmas,

Jim

Wise words indeed.

 

[TinyT]

Wes @TinyT, it's both sometimes helpful and sometimes problematic to compare your shaves with the shaves of others.

• It's hard to be sure your whiskers are like theirs.
• It's hard to know that you evaluate shaves the same (in spite of a common standard like BBS, etc.).
• I wonder if some beards grow faster or slower than others.

View attachment 1046450

I'm pretty sure most gentlemen improve over time as their technique and such improve assuming they're making some small effort to do so. Trying too hard may be counterproductive. Some of it seems to "just happen" particularly being into examining and controlling the variables as just about everyone around these parts seems to be in interested in doing.

Happy shaves and Merry Christmas,

Jim

Thanks for the advice Jim, I listen carefully to everything you have to say. Sometimes I congratulate myself on my patience, even as I'm plunging headlong, demanding and expecting more from my shaves. Still, I've made some progress uptill now and I hope it continues on into the new year. It's certainly been a lot of fun and I'm learning a lot. That's enough to please me alone. It wouldn't have happened without everyone here at B&B, of that I can be fairly sure and it's been a pleasure getting to know you, and many others here besides. I expect they all know who they are.

Merry Christmas to you too,

Wes.

 

[Esox]

Sounds like the kind of shave I can only dream of, but I suppose our expectations shift as we improve. I think I'm on the right road. Better be, otherwise I'm in trouble.

Like I said before, give it a year. After that much time and that many shaves have gone by you'll be wondering what all the trouble really was.

Trying too hard may be counterproductive.

The above cant be said often enough. I'll even say that it is counterproductive. A BBS finish didnt just appear to anyone, especially if thats what one is chasing without understanding the road to that achievement.

Dont chase a BBS finish, chase the most comfortable shave you can have done in the way that you want it done. You've said, I think, that you want a close comfortable shave every time in 2 passes. A Gillette Tech might take you there but it wont be easy.

Find your best blades in that razor. You'll know your best blade on its first use. Once you have found it, use that blade and no others while you develop your technique to get the shave you want. Once you're consistently having the most comfortable and closest shaves you can have with that combination, reevaluate. How many passes does it take to get you there? Are you okay with that? What do you need more, or less of, to give you the shave you want?

The point of it is a process of elimination. If you're doing the best you can with the best blade you have and you're still not in the place you want to be, move to another razor because the one you're using has been eliminated.

I could have a close shave from a Tech in a single buffing pass ATG but the Tech has gap and gap is a source of irritation for me. Even at two passes, I'd have to use the razor very aggressively to get there and my skin would pay a price.

Yesterdays shave for example. Three full passes and two clean ups, with a lot of buffing, from my jawline down. That kept me in the comfort zone but to me thats a lot of work for a decent shave and it could have been more comfortable. I've had far more comfortable shaves than yesterdays, but it was okay.

I can have the same shave with my Grande, a Derby Extra and a BBS finish that lasts 4 hours longer with one full pass N>S without buffing and then an ATG pass with minimal buffing. Because my Grande has less blade gap and I'm subjecting my skin to the blade for less time, its a far more comfortable shave.

The Tech is not efficient. The Grande is.

D2 (1958) post war Tech.

Fatip.

Everyone says how mild the Tech is. To me its not that mild at all because of the blade gap. The Fatip has more blade exposure, but far less blade gap.

Using the Tech at a neutral angle and using my Grande at the shallow angle I normally do, its a no contest in the comfort department. My Grande is in another world of comfort.

I couldnt even use my Tech at the same angle I use my Grande with, well I could, maybe, but the pressure I'd need to use would be to over the top even for me. Its just not realistic. If I needed to use a razor like that I simply need a different razor.

 

[TinyT]

I never really though of myself as chasing BBS, since I don't shave ATG or suffer painful shaves for the sake of closeness. But now that I think about it, I am chasing BBS, mentally, seeing it as the correct or final outcome, if I learn to shave in the correct manner, given enough time etc. I'm starting to realise now that this is probably not a very helpful way of looking at things.

chase the most comfortable shave you can have done in the way that you want it done.

I like this sentence a lot. I'll try to make the adjustment to my thought processes. If I'm reading it correctly, personalise my goals; personalise my shaves.

You'll know your best blade on its first use.

Another light bulb moment. It almost shouldn't need to be said but it's another example of the way the most obvious of things get lost in all of the complication and endless variations. Simplicity is not as easy as it sounds.

The point of it is a process of elimination. If you're doing the best you can with the best blade you have and you're still not in the place you want to be, move to another razor because the one you're using has been eliminated.

And this is the most remarkable of all for me. 'The point of it is a process of elimination.' This is a goal. I may well still be a perfect shave seeker, but chasing a perfect shave will not make it happen, I think I'm starting to understand that now. It's back to the line you quoted from Jim about trying too hard. And when I think about the best shaves I've had these last few months, the best of them, like yesterday's, were those where I wasn't really trying to do anything. In fact, almost every time I specifically set out to get a very close shave, it doesn't happen. I expect everything will fall into place eventually. As you said at the top, give it a year...