I recently bought an R41 clone and the shaves were awful. I don't think a real R41 would be much different. Want a super smooth razor with blade feel but not overly so? Buy a Fine Marvel before they run out.
My first run using a R41 -- clone?
- Thread starter Guido75
- Start date
No, sorry Juan, not like that. I remember your posting about the not so amazing, misaligned and cheap clone you ordered from Amazon. This really cannot have given you an idea how a R41 should shave.
You can buy a genuine Muhle R41 head as a replacement part for around $20, which is pretty reasonable. Put it on a short stainless steel bulldog handle and it should work very well.
The R41 is one of those razors that does much better with some blades than others. The Astra SP is not a bad match in this case. You'll want a blade in the mid-sharp or above range. Duller blades are not going to work well.
A thinner, slicker lather is very helpful.
Try a steeper angle. Paradoxically, a shallow angle is more likely to results in nicks. Don't expect a real comfortable shave, but the R41 is very effective. Whiskers are wiped away. You may find you won't need as many passes as usual.
The R41 is one of those razors that does much better with some blades than others. The Astra SP is not a bad match in this case. You'll want a blade in the mid-sharp or above range. Duller blades are not going to work well.
A thinner, slicker lather is very helpful.
Try a steeper angle. Paradoxically, a shallow angle is more likely to results in nicks. Don't expect a real comfortable shave, but the R41 is very effective. Whiskers are wiped away. You may find you won't need as many passes as usual.
A slick lather definitely helps a lot with the R41.
When it comes to the angle, I found that the blade pulls and tugs in the R41 for me if I go steep.
The pulling is reduced to a minimum when riding the cap, so that's what I do with the R41. I'm getting very smooth shaves that way. Not sure how/why going steep is what some people prefer and fare better with this razor.
Just to clarify, riding the comb/safety bar does give excellent shaves but it feels terrible for me.
Sharp blades do work well in the R41. Nacet and Feather are great here, as are the somewhat more mild Voskhod.
The few times I nicked myself were with blades that were past their prime and this happened both on shallow and steep angled shaves.
Riding the cap means the guard won't be able to stretch the skin in advance of the blade. If the skin gets bunched up in front of the blade, it's easier to get nicked. You could stretch the skin with the other hand, I guess. The other thing is that riding the guard reduces blade exposure. Blade exposure is not a bad thing, but may not feel as comfortable for some.
I think that while the steep angle may not feel very comfortable, the tugging feeling is more perception than reality, because the shave results are really good.
Another shallow/steep discussion. I recently used my Blackbird with SB and OC to explore how it shaves best.
Shallow seems to be the answer for me, was also a bit more comfortable.
I usually shave very steep so. But must say, before Badger & Blade I didn't even think about the angle but just used what seemed to work.
Most razors have rounded caps and allow quite some leeway when shaving. I noticed that I do "lean" more into the shave when going steep.
As for lather, now what's an entirely new tub of soap you two just opened up!
Shallow seems to be the answer for me, was also a bit more comfortable.
I usually shave very steep so. But must say, before Badger & Blade I didn't even think about the angle but just used what seemed to work.
Most razors have rounded caps and allow quite some leeway when shaving. I noticed that I do "lean" more into the shave when going steep.
As for lather, now what's an entirely new tub of soap you two just opened up!
- Thread starter
- #28
Before B&B I did not have a clue to what shaving angles were. Then I got confused and mixed up steel and shallow. Nowadays I tend to shave steep, however using audio feedback actually helps me more - if it shaves correctly a razor gives a different sound and feel. YMMV obviously.Another shallow/steep discussion. I recently used my Blackbird with SB and OC to explore how it shaves best.
Shallow seems to be the answer for me, was also a bit more comfortable.
I usually shave very steep so. But must say, before Badger & Blade I didn't even think about the angle but just used what seemed to work.
Most razors have rounded caps and allow quite some leeway when shaving. I noticed that I do "lean" more into the shave when going steep.
As for lather, now what's an entirely new tub of soap you two just opened up!
Shallow might be the trick for the Flatboy from the looks of things.
Cheers,
Guido
Pretty sure this depends on the skin and build type but I never stretch the skin with my hands. I do look up and sideways to do it but that's it. Since the key with de shaving is not to use any pressure and let the razor do the work, I've not ever had any skin bunch up. Maybe I just got lucky? So i guess ymmv
Actually in this case it does the opposite. The blade gap between the cap and the blade is pretty small in the R41 while the gap between the blade and the comb is larger.
When you ride the cap, you're actually not getting your hair into the larger gap.
Now please don't get me wrong here, with riding the cap i don't mean buffing with the handle sticking out sideways.
What I'm talking about is finding the hot cutting angle opposite of the hot steep cutting angle. Meaning start flat, then steepen the angle until you feel the blade cutting perfectly.
This will in actual fact only be a few degrees from the optimum steep cutting angle.
It's easier to describe it by feel.
Just start shallow and turn steep until the razor works at close to 100% bite, that's the angle I use with the R41.
When doing it from the steep side I just get too much pulling, plus blade chatter and the razor hopping too.
I you look at how horizontal the blade is in the R41, a shallow angle/approach will be very, similar to your typical steep angle in another razor.
Which Tiger are you talking about? Tiger Platinum or Tiger Superior Stainless?
And how fo you know that a real R41 wouldn't be much different without ever trying it? I have tried the Chinese imitation, and it was terrible. Went to the trash bin. There is a huge difference. R41 user for more than 8 years.
Platinum. The stainless is not seen much if at all in Western Europe. Executive Shaving, Greencult and quite some other vendors package them with their razors as freebie by now.
The Superior Stainless is much better. Sharper and smoother on the skin. The Platinums are pretty bad in my book. Dull and give me irritation for at least 5 hours.
I was quite surprised to see Green Cult putting a Tiger Platinum with their razor. I'd rather not have a blade at all included than that one. Can't imagine a newbie's first shave with it.
I was quite surprised to see Green Cult putting a Tiger Platinum with their razor. I'd rather not have a blade at all included than that one. Can't imagine a newbie's first shave with it.
- Thread starter
- #34
YMMV as usual. I have had wonderful shaves with the Tiger Platinum - and also some bad ones. The bad ones were usually down to either my technique or a bad combo between razor and blade.
Guido
- Thread starter
- #35
After having the worst shave ever using this cloned head I was ready to bin the head and blade all together. I have not yet, but I did right the wrong by getting a Mühle R41 head from my local webshop. I will pay my findings in a new thread.
What I have learned from comparing both heads is that they are really similar with some distinct differences. I think the clone is made after the 2011 version as it has much more blade exposure than the Mühle I received - and given the R41’s design more blade exposure also means more blade gap.
Second the teeth are more straight than rounded which would explain for the harsher shave I experienced.
Third, the clone has full blade coverage with no protruding sides whereas the real R41 has a minor side exposure.
Fourth, the chrome on the R41 is immaculate compared to the clone.
So after blade installation I mounted the R41 on my Razorine 70 handle:
Two things I learned from this experience:
I do like the R41’s design and there is nothing to be afraid of, just some respect and love and it will give you efficiency to the max.
Get the real thing. I was glad to test drive with a clone head, but only by looking (not shaved yet) I can already tell the real shave will be better. It definitely cannot get worse!!
Best,
Guido
What I have learned from comparing both heads is that they are really similar with some distinct differences. I think the clone is made after the 2011 version as it has much more blade exposure than the Mühle I received - and given the R41’s design more blade exposure also means more blade gap.
Second the teeth are more straight than rounded which would explain for the harsher shave I experienced.
Third, the clone has full blade coverage with no protruding sides whereas the real R41 has a minor side exposure.
Fourth, the chrome on the R41 is immaculate compared to the clone.
So after blade installation I mounted the R41 on my Razorine 70 handle:
Two things I learned from this experience:
I do like the R41’s design and there is nothing to be afraid of, just some respect and love and it will give you efficiency to the max.
Get the real thing. I was glad to test drive with a clone head, but only by looking (not shaved yet) I can already tell the real shave will be better. It definitely cannot get worse!!
Best,
Guido
- Thread starter
- #36
This Saturday was the first shave with the real McCoy:
www.badgerandblade.com
I did it and never looked back.
Guido
My first run with a R41 — the real deal!
Earlier this month I mentioned I was gifted or PIFfed a R41 head to try out and see if I liked it enough (My first run using a R41 -- clone? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/my-first-run-using-a-r41-clone.626506/) After initial inspections I noticed QC issues and soon I reached...
www.badgerandblade.com
I did it and never looked back.
Guido
