My conversation with sales person re:tallow

[soulshine]

I stopped by a store on State Street in Madison, Wisconsin this afternoon to look at their shave supplies. What they now carry is minimal...a few cheap brushes, a few pucks of Cade, some random glycerin soaps and C&E products. A sales person walked over and asked if they could help me with anything?

Me: I am looking for shave soaps with tallow.

Reply: Can I ask why you are looking for only tallow soaps?

Me: I enjoy soaps made with this.

Reply: Many people are now against animal cruelty now. Which soap do you currently use?

Me: I use many different soaps but there are a few that are reformulating to a palm based soap.

Reply: *Smiles* See...companies are becoming aware of animal cruelty and catering to people becoming vegetarians. There are many vegetarians in this area. Let me show you this soap here. *Takes glycerin puck* This is the best for you, we sell 5-6 of these a day.

Me: Really...what's in it?

Reply: We melt a large block of glycerin and put sandalwood fragrance in it.

Me: Interesting...does it contain fragrance oil or essential oil?

Reply: I don't know.

Me: Thanks anyway...I have a stockpile of soaps I enjoy at home. I appreciate your help.

I should go into detail about how he recommended to remove the lather from a brush by holding the base and twisting the hairs 180 degrees but that would make me want to bang my head against the wall.

s~s

 

[Seraphim]

Another sign that It is coming.........





















SHAVEPOCALYPSE!

 

[TimeWeaver]

Yup.
Some people just aren't ready to hear. Their line of thought is their line of thought, and they won't depart from it, or even metaphorically turn their heads to look and see what else there is.
It's one thing to adhere to some discipline or other. This is fine, possibly good, maybe even commendable.
But it's another altogether to even be intenionally oblivious/ignorant.

But we can't change people like that. The best we can do is, as has been observed many other places, speak truth and be as helpful and loving as possible.

 

[Phog Allen]

Yep. pretty much sums up my opinion of this whole tallow reformulation thing. All anyone has heard for fifteen years is animal free, animal free. These companies are responding to the loudest voices they hear. All the time we see convoluted conspiracies about tallow vs palm costs, etc. I don't believe any of it. I believe Penhaligon's, Trumper, and Floris when over the years they have said they were doing this stuff out of social conscience, etc. It does mean there will likely be some vendors who hold out(are you listening Harris and MWF?)with tallow and set themselves a bit apart. It may even be that their suppliers are telling them that all soap bases are moving veg only for the same reasons. I seriously doubt that Pens and others actively sought this out at first. The costs are most assuredly more for veg bases. None of them except for maybe Mitchel's makes their own product. It is mostly contracted. We shall see but hopefully some enterprising soul who haunts these forums finds a contractor who will make tallow soaps to their heart's content and supply all us curmudgeons. And remember, this from a guy who thinks Provence Sante and a couple of other veg soaps are the full equal of good tallow soaps.

Regards, Todd

 

[krissy]

Interesting to see shaving soaps reformulating but you don't see the same for bath soaps. As in the bars of soap you find on the store shelf like walmart, kmart or target. They still contain tallow. Yet more people use bath bars than shaving soaps, IMHO.

I wonder how many vegetarians or those against cruelty to animals are still using these soaps because they don't realize they are made with tallow. Until I got into soap making I never considered looking at the label of the ingredients in the soap I used. I had no reason to, it was soap and it's what I used since as far back as I can remember.

 

[40_Caliber]

Another sign that It is coming.........

SHAVEPOCALYPSE!

Make hay while the sun shines. Stockpile.

.40

 

[joto]

Lecturing you on animal cruelty?? Please- how tacky. You should have eaten them!!

 

[luvmysuper]

I guess my biggest peeve with the idea of the Manufacturers catering singly to the loudest voice, is that it denies those who like the tallow soaps. I don't have any issue with anyone who doesn't want to use animal products, but the manufacturers could provide both (although that is a significant increase in manufacturing costs).

It's basically the same thing that has happened with the "low fat" stuff. that voice is heard so well that a skinny guy like me, at hotels HAS to drink low fat milk, eat Low fat yogurt and whole wheat multigrain bread for breakfast. I just don't have a choice anymore, it's been taken away.

 

[EL Alamein]

Whenever I hear about such ridiculous behavior like on the part of that sales rep I am reminded of a quote from Marcus Aurelious:

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

Chris

 

[strat1117]

Make hay while the sun shines. Stockpile.

But how much is enough? My wife and kids already think I'm bizarre for buying soaps that I already have, but I keep wanting to buy more. I have 6 in use (all pretty full) and 6 backups (only counting the tallow-based soaps, I do have another half-dozen or so creams and non-tallow soaps). I figure I'm good for many years -- enough so that I'll be too senile to care by the time I run out.

 

[Seraphim]

But how much is enough? My wife and kids already think I'm bizarre for buying soaps that I already have, but I keep wanting to buy more. I have 6 in use (all pretty full) and 6 backups (only counting the tallow-based soaps, I do have another half-dozen or so creams and non-tallow soaps). I figure I'm good for many years -- enough so that I'll be too senile to care by the time I run out.

All the more reason to buy even MORE!


What happens if you start to forget where you left your favorite soap? Better get 2-3 of each, that way if you misplace one, another one is bound to show up sooner or later.

 

[Koss]

We just need to start growing meat in the laboratory. Animal Cruelty Free Tallow for Everyone!

What shall we call the process? Chia Fat? Plant a Heffer? Grow-a-tallow?

 

[mretzloff]

All the more reason to buy even MORE!


What happens if you start to forget where you left your favorite soap? Better get 2-3 of each, that way if you misplace one, another one is bound to show up sooner or later.

I like your thinking.

 

[Topgumby]

I'm a bad person when it comes to PC salespeople.

Clerk: "Would you like to buy a grocery bag and help save the environment?"
TG: "No, in fact could you double bag my order in plastic then paper? I want to make sure I use my fair share of resources before I die. By the way, do you think that this package of toilet paper is too much for this amount of food? I have two kids, if that helps."

Clerk: "We only carry plant based soaps, because of animal cruelty concerns."
TG: "That's too bad. I must have animal fat in my soap. Can you tell me where the nearest cat shelter is? I need to adopt a few kittens, as it turns out."

My wife more or less won't shop with me.

 

[Leche]

What the salesperson really meant.

You: Do you have any tallow based shave soaps?
Them: You don't want tallow based. I know what is best for you, you don't know anything. These products you will like better because I said so.

I would have left at the start of the lecture. Kiss my @$$ and lecture your wall.

 

[SRock]

Lecturing you on animal cruelty?? Please- how tacky. You should have eaten them!!

But how much is enough? My wife and kids already think I'm bizarre for buying soaps that I already have, but I keep wanting to buy more. I have 6 in use (all pretty full) and 6 backups (only counting the tallow-based soaps, I do have another half-dozen or so creams and non-tallow soaps). I figure I'm good for many years -- enough so that I'll be too senile to care by the time I run out.

You know you're a B&Bneck when you have so many soaps that you'll be too senile to care when you run out!

 

[suprchunk]

We just need to start growing meat in the laboratory. Animal Cruelty Free Tallow for Everyone!

What shall we call the process? Chia Fat? Plant a Heffer? Grow-a-tallow?

They just started doing this. But it is the fat you need to start growing. Then you would be in hog heaven.

 

[pablo_h]

Using palms as a subistute isn't animal friendly either http://www.palmoilaction.org.au/pages/deforestation.html
Tallow comes from animals that are being slaughtered for meat. Palm comes from areas where forests and wildlife is being wiped out.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_palm_oil

 

[40_Caliber]

But how much is enough? My wife and kids already think I'm bizarre for buying soaps that I already have, but I keep wanting to buy more. I have 6 in use (all pretty full) and 6 backups (only counting the tallow-based soaps, I do have another half-dozen or so creams and non-tallow soaps). I figure I'm good for many years -- enough so that I'll be too senile to care by the time I run out.

I'll stop at a 25 year supply. Vacuum packed stored in weather proof containers.

50 pucks. 2 pucks per year
2500 blades. 2 blades per week per year
5 brushes. 1 brush every 5 years.

I'm not there yet but but who is counting?

 

[herbnerd]

* Saturated fatty acids:
o Palmitic acid: 26 %
o Stearic acid: 14 %
o Myristic acid: 3 %
* Monounsaturated fatty acids:
o Oleic acid: 47 %
o Palmitoleic acid: 3 %
* Polyunsaturated fatty acids:
o Linoleic acid: 3 %
o Linolenic acid: 1 %

All of these are available from vegetable sources and would be quite easy to manufacture something that would be equivalent to tallow.

So, ethical concerns aside, why the obsession with tallow over vegetable?

Most of the reformulating isn't with vegetarians in mind. It is to cover vegetarians, Hindus, Sikhs, Kosher & Halal. By using vegetable sources you can make one product that would appeal to many different groups rather than having to have half a dozen different formulations for each group.

Yes, it is a matter of economics for many companies. But for the average white male meat eater, he is concerned with his own wants rather than the needs of many different people.