My bad experience as a newbie. Tips apreciated.

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I have about 3000 straight shaves done over the last 7 or 8 years. I mastered the technique pretty much in 30 shaves. It isn't rocket science.

Not like it matters but we all have different skin, whiskers, levels of coordination, experiences which cross over to SR shaving or don't, fears, vision, hearing, and perhaps forms of intelligence.

I'd hate to see somebody quit because they'd not mastered the technique in thirty shaves. It's nice to know some people can play the piano the first time, but most can't.

Not that it matters.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[street]

The message I tried to get across was that it is something that can be learned by everybody in a reasonable short timespan.
Of course I did not want to scare off anybody .

 

[Wallerwilly]

When stropping it's okay to go slow.

Strop a whole lot slower than the people making videos usually strop. Go slow and watch what you're doing. The main thing is keeping the spine on the strop throughout the stroke. Learn to hear what's going on at the edge. Learn the feel. It takes a while to become excellent at stropping but your first goal is to learn competency.

Well, actually your first goal it to not totally mess up any sharp edges you have.

Straight razor shaving is worth it, at least to me it is, but the learning curve is long.

Some people say they make short work of SR mastery. I don't believe them. Not that basic competence can't be achieve within about a hundred shaves assuming a truly sharp razor to begin with and throughout.

Having only razors which are not truly sharp greatly retards the learning process. It's very easy to dull a sharp razor until you learn the tricks to help you avoid dulling the edge. Much of this is just practice and trial and error.

Yes, I said error. All of us are bound to make many mistakes learning to shave with the straight. There is a great deal to master. Much which seems like it should be and will be easy turns out to be frustrating, difficult, seemingly impossible.

View attachment 1010688

I'm close to 300 shaves into the straight. Still a beginner. I'm far from where I know I'll be in another year of straight razor shaving (and honing). Hopefully, I'll still have Beginner's Mind in ten or fifteen or twenty years. I don't want to become complacent with the straight razor.

People have told me most who begin with the straight razor (or move to the straight from safety razors) never complete the first hundred shaves (which is the minimum number of shaves required to say you've given the SR a good shot). It makes sense to me to say that the main requirement when it comes to learning the SR is that you are persistent (being stubborn tenacious helps too).

The first goal (I think) with actual straight razor shaving is to achieve a Damn Comfortable Shave. That means just comfortable and not close and not smooth. Comfortable.

A very well hydrated lather helps.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Amen, Jim, Amen.

And yes i've took the opportunity to just strop my first razor since i wasn't going to like it, and inspect it with magnifying tools i had (jeweler loopes and telescope). Not saying i'm doing it perfectly, but i'm not nicking my strop anymore. Nor do i run over a nick.

I'm an extremely tenacious person, also a passionate one. And i've found passion in this whole thing. I'm still learning, and will learn as long there's knowledge to be found. I've done wild stuff with the razors i have and the stones i have. Inspected the results, took notes, moved on. I'm not quiting now, nor tomorrow.

The 20+ hours i spent on the 1k stone trying to fix my geo w. thought me a few things. Control your slurry. Learn all the ''standard strokes''. Standard stroles are for standard razors, all old razors aren't standard and have issues of some sort and you need to learn to work with those. And to not believe everything everyone says on this particular subject.

My lather was fine. Blade was gliding, no friction whatsoever. It's the hundreds of ingrown hair on the neck that gave me an issue. I knew i had some issue with that, but that bad? no. I had a cliper that made a big scar under the jaw line because i had a cople ingrown hair in the same area and it just destroyed the lump and everything standing in between. Other than that i would've never guessed the inflamation and burning sensation on my neck area was due to a real problem. Which i though i would fix instantly by going for SR. Which in a way i was right... removing electric razor and cartridge from my routine will help me with that issue, in long therms. Or so i have read somewhere.

Concerning the shaving technique, i do have some work to do on my left hand. I'm very dexterous with a blade in my strong hand, been doing it for 16 years 40+ hours a week with a way larger blade and sometimes to trim way smaller areas. That helped, alot. But ambidexterity wise? nope, not one bit. It does shave well on the neck area, it's the left cheek that's really awkward doing it with the right hand.

I know i don't provide enough details half the time as to why i reason the way i do. So here's why i want to move to a jnat. I learned after 7 full rotations on my 1k to nat stone (beeing the imperia la rocca) that my 8k shapton pro did better than my finishing stone, the ILR. After multiple rotations i noticed that everytime i finshied on my 8k, i had a decent polish no nicks, and after the ILR, that i had a good polish but plenty of micro nicks on the edge. The impurities of the ILR were known by some to do that. Still tried it. Should've listened to my gut feeling. I tried the lapping films from 12k to 30k. Yes it did improve the cutting ability compared to an 8k hone. But there was little polishing, just micro scrates. The material is too hard on the blade. It would be like having a 30k DMT if that makes any sense?

So i'm trying to learn the holy bible of jnat, also know as the jnat glossary. And that's quite a learning curve in itself.

Anyway, all in all it's just a man learning his passion, making mistakes and learning why they happened.

Benoit.

 

[ajduplessis]

Adding to what Ambassador Chan mentioned above. Give yourself a couple months or 100 shaves to get really comfortable and confident. I struggle with concentration and easily loose focus. If you rush straight shaving your face will hate you eventually.

You have the rest of your life in front of you to shave daily. Small steps everyday and the passion and results will continue to grow.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Benoit, people say not to learn both shaving with a straight and honing a straight at the same time. I agree with them. It would be better to focus on the shave for a good long time and then add learning to hone if you want.

Since I was unable to find a truly shave ready blade I had no choice but to learn to hone. I've now purchased several razors which arrived sharp, but that's now. Early on, all I purchased shave ready were less sharp than the ones I honed. My honing was - I now know this and have progressed beyond it - my honing was bad, but it was better than the honing I purchased.

Anyway, it was for me a stumbling along process. Finally now I'm getting edges sharp enough. Some I've purchased shave ready. Most I've honed.

If the edge seems to have a good bevel (and I know, usually, how to create a good bevel), I can usually get it sharp enough with enough laps on the Arkansas stones I use (stones made convex by Jarrod at Superior Shave). I'm confident I could use well enough the other stones I have accumulated but I prefer the Double Convex Ark and this Norton translucent convex finishing stones.

Some people seem to love the ILC, but I've not tried one. I have succeeded with synthetics and with coticules and with the Zulu Grey as well as flat Arks. I think there are many good choices. The jnat(s) rabbit hole is not one I plan to jump into, but they certainly look like they have great potential.

In all respects I really like the Convex Arks. Well, except for how slow they are. Yes, they're faster than flat Arks but they're still slow in my experience compared with some other stones I've used.

...inspect (the edge) with magnifying tools

Yes.

The shave test tops everything, but magnification is a huge help.

I'm an extremely tenacious person, also a passionate one. And i've found passion in this whole thing. I'm still learning, and will learn as long there's knowledge to be found. I've done wild stuff with the razors i have and the stones i have. Inspected the results, took notes, moved on. I'm not quitting now, nor tomorrow.

Good approach I think. I'm less methodical than that, to my detriment probably.

The 20+ hours i spent on the 1k stone trying to fix my geo w. thought me a few things.

It really is a good idea to not believe everything. It's sort of a trust but verify undertaking. Being tenacious is great.

One thing I didn't quite learn until a good while after I should have was the difference between razors which just need to be honed and razors which need to be restored or rehabilitated.

I also learned I needed a stone much coarser than than 1K. I purchased and have been using on chips and rehab projects a Shapton Pro (meaning this one from Amazon). It feels very coarse and is faster than the 1K, but I'm probably going to also get the 120 grit stone for times I want even more serious action on a blade which needs the most extreme restoration.

I've read that the 220 grit is for stainless steel which is why I'll drop from 320 to 120.

I've shaved with both hands for a long time, but I don't use my hands like most guys seem to (the ones making videos anyway). I shave with whatever hand feels naturally best for the area I'm shaving and that means sometimes using my left hand on the right side of my face and neck.

I've got a long way to go, but my shaves are comfortable, and I'm having fun.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Rosseforp]

I started with a Feather SS using Pro Guard blades a year ago. Since I knew the blades were sharp, any problems shaving I knew would be my technique.

I found buying shave ready no a guarantee that it would be shave ready for me. Therefore, it was best for me to learn to hone. A friend and mentor suggested a packet of 3m Lapping films from an eBay seller. This led to me honing a $12 vintage razor the first time and getting a nice shave. The whole film set up will cost less than $50 US.

I also have an Illinois strop. Mine is the #50 ($25 US). It has performed well. Later you can add diamond pastes balsa as a finishing touch at a cost of $17 US.

+1

 

[SliceOfLife]

It also matters your beard and previous experience shaving.

I'd been shaving for a decade with a beard trimmer, because I have Pili Multigemini, and disposables INSTANTLY clog and start ripping hair out of my face, and electrics even with brand new heads do nothing except rip the hair out of my face. Straights had a pretty low bar for me. I shaved a few times without stropping (which I would NEVER do again), and it was pretty good relative to what I was used to... it was absolutely horrible, but again, the bar was LOW. That said, once I actually bought a working strop (maybe 20-30 shaves in), I was getting shaves that were reflective of the best available from the finisher used (Cnat and Swaty back then iirc... plus a Nakayama Jnat that I was still learning).

These days, where I think 99% of the problems of struggling beginners lie is microscopic edge damage they aren't fixing... IE Not properly setting a bevel. Most tests for a bevel only check that the bevel is sharp AT POINTS. Shaving your arm isn't going to catch that there's a huge (relatively) chunk missing in the middle of the blade from a microchip... and that chip is going to Rip hair out and shred your face. Now imagine there's DOZENS of those chips intermittently scattered the length of the edge... that's what I suspect MOST beginners who don't get their razor honed by a reliable honer are using.

Just speaking about the shave itself? I think it's just a matter of trying things until you get them right. 99% of it is not lifting the spine. The other 1% is learning how to best approach your hair growth depending on the angle it takes... which you could luck into your first shave, or it could take years to settle into your best process. I could totally understand someone picking up a straight for the first time and hitting every approach and angle just right... I can also understand guys taking months trying to get anything close to ATG up along their throats or where-ever their beard grows crazy.

 

[Wallerwilly]

I believe that you are corect in saying that beginer honers have issues with their edges. I also believe part of the problem is the information we are given is meant to roll a voracious business with alot of predators and alot of new preys. Jnat business is a good reflection of that.

What i can confirm so far is my first honing was as good i could get it with the gears i had. My issue was trusting certain mediums about what i should get first. Now that i can strop and have a good technique i can say for certainty that my edges were as good as i could get them. The razor was cutting hair and skin, period. Comfort has nothing to do with sharpness. Comfort is a multitude of factors, sharpness beeing part of it. My razor was sharp.

What litle piece of knowledge i can pass around to other newbies that will follow the same path as i did is:
Strop, learn to do it. And if you think you stroped enough do it again, and again. A newly honed edge is too sharp for comfort. it'll cut everything, including slim strips of skin. Stroping smooth down that edge. Don't expect your strop to fix bad honing, it won't.
Watch your technique.
DO NOT BE HASTY. There's alot of information out there, i took hundreds of hours reading and watching videos before even considering purchasing anything, and i still got screwed. If you think you know enough, you don't. Learn from other beginers who talks about their mistakes and how they learned from them and make your own judgement. Sometimes things aren't what they seems.
If you ask questions and you don't get answers on how to move forward instead of backward, move on. If someone says you should do something entirely differently, move on. But ask questions, that's the most important part.

Right now i'm ready to move forward with my honing and acquired a good Jnat with mejiro, koma and tomo nagura progression. My edges are always good, and extremely consistent. I learned to make and maintain smiling edges which i prefer by far, and also are the hardest to get consistency out of. Any decent honer would probably agree. If i can get good consistent edges on thoses i am ready to move to the next step in my learning curve. I will update once i receive my kit and get a few hones on it and shave a few times with those edges on different razors.

 

[Greg24]

Benoit,
What are you shaving with when your not using one of your strights? If ingrown hairs and inflammation are issues maybe try a good old safety razor? You said that the cartridges and electric razors gave you some irritation. I used to get major ingrown hair on my neck and chin when I was using cartridges. If you switch to a DE safety blade on the days your not using your strights maybe your skin would be better prepared for those shaves.

Good luck and keep at it! I really respect your honing tenacity!

 

[Wallerwilly]

Thanks Greg,

First i was doing intermitently electric and straight.
Once i understood i had a really strong ingrown hair problem i removed the electric razor entirely.
If i ever nicked my face i cliped it down a bit (not shaved) untill it was healed.
I only do full straight razor shaves, and my ingrown hair issue has been radically reduced.
Because of the issue i only do 2 passes on the neck, when i feel adventurous i do the ATG.

And at times i considered just tossing it all out the house and get DEs.
But i enjoy honing, in fact that's the best part of my week.
Not gonna go mental here, just focusing on the stones for hours is very soothing to me.
So much i almost consider buying gold dollars and just giving them away so i can burn some steel.

 

[Greg24]

That’s great, I moved to safety razors because those Mach3s were tearing my face up so bad! I tried a straight for a but life got crazy and it got packed away for years...
I’m giving it another go now, but I’ll admit I wish I shared your passion for grinding steal away with stone. Keep at it and good luck!