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Wait broken razors? Only time I’ve seen that happen is when one drops. How much pressure are you using when stropping/honing/shaving.
 
This is wild. I havent seen or heard about user population experiences this sort of crack often. Especially given the TI quote, that, i wonder, may be after treatment and grinding/finishing vs out to user.

Hope no more crack.
 
Yes, the second out of 11 new SR's. Thiers-Issard report that about 15% to 25% of their SR's crack during initial honing or early use. It is just accepted as part of the manufacturing process. Nothing can really be done economically to reduce this occurrence.

It is very rare for a vintage to crack as they have already been through the "mill".

I have had a lot more than 11-12 brand new razors and never have seen anything like that. I’ve never even heard of that happening with $4 Gold Dollars and have had plenty of those too.

You info on TI failure rate - can you link us to where they say that? I can’t find it anywhere and can’t imagine any business staying afloat sending out dangerous failures like that.

Be careful with those Titans.
 
You info on TI failure rate - can you link us to where they say that? I can’t find it anywhere and can’t imagine any business staying afloat sending out dangerous failures like that.


I would like to see this as well as the findings of carbon steel blade hardness of Sheffield and Solingen blades being in the late 50's. I would think they would be more in the very late 50's to early 60's - something easily obtained with simple O1 steel
You have tested these personally?
You still have an unanswered thread about grain size of steel, SR Blade Steel - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/sr-blade-steel.586790/ is this tested personally as well?
How are you coming to theses conclusions?
 
I shaved with my Satur SR this morning for the first time. This blade had previously been given a Method edge. I stropped the blade as normal. Checked the edge and all looked good. The shave went well, not perfect but very good.

After the shave I was wiping the blade clean when I noticed that it was cracked!
This can happen with any heat treated SR from any supplier and normally occurs during early use. The crack was not there after stropping and I didn't feel it while shaving. The crack must have occurred while either shaving or wiping clean.

I contacted the supplier and they immediately offered a free replacement, even though their 7-day return policy had expired.

For my subsequent Satur shaves, I will substitute my Vesperum SR. The Vesperum SR passes the FPT with easy so it will be a good benchmark to compare the other SR's in my M7DS.

According to your the number of crack, and the fact that other shavers including me myself, do not really have a chance to see a crack personally, I would suggest that maybe your sharpening and honing method has some issue.

YMMY.
 
The razors could crack easily if not properly tempered which is probably the issue with the mentioned razors.
Getting the steel hard is not so difficult - properly tempering it to suit the needs of the tool is more difficult.
Proper heat treat is a must.
I would guess that these may not actually be tempered at all seeing as they are near mid 60s to 70 Rc. Assuming this is the actual hardness.
 
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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
The razors could crack easily if not properly tempered which is probably the issue with the mentioned razors.
Getting the steel hard is not so difficult - properly tempering it to suit the needs of the tool is more difficult.
Proper heat treat is a must.
I would guess that these may not actually be tempered at all seeing as they are near mid 60s to 70 Rc.
I agree that it is most probably a tempering issue. I have access the RH testing and all of my blades come in at about 58 to 59 for HCS and ACRM-2, 62 for the VG10-HZ and 68 for the ACRO (one only).
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
According to your the number of crack, and the fact that other shavers including me myself, do not really have a chance to see a crack personally, I would suggest that maybe your sharpening and honing method has some issue.

YMMY.
You may be correct. Always learning.
 
I agree that it is most probably a tempering issue. I have access the RH testing and all of my blades come in at about 58 to 59 for HCS and ACRM-2, 62 for the VG10-HZ and 68 for the ACRO (one only).


And you have quite a few Sheffield and Solingen blades that were tested?
To gain any useful data you need a test group, not 1 or 2 razors.

I re-read your review of the Titan.
There is no mention of blades cracking. If this is an inherent problem I would include that in your review as this is not ever an issue with any other blade.
Just saying.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
And you have quite a few Sheffield and Solingen blades that were tested?
To gain any useful data you need a test group, not 1 or 2 razors.

I re-read your review of the Titan.
There is no mention of blades cracking. If this is an inherent problem I would include that in your review as this is not ever an issue with any other blade.
Just saying.
I don't consider cracking an inherent problem with any blade. It is something that can happen with any blade steel that is heat treated to the extent and "thinness" of SR's. This heat treatment can and does build up internal stresses within the steel that cannot always be fully removed without overly decreasing the blade's hardness.

Most cracks are discovered during the initial honing of the blade by the manufacturer. There is no visible indication that a blade might crack due to residual internal stresses. It is just something that happens occasionally. Chips, even a micro chip, in the blade's edge can also act as a stress raiser that can commence a crack in the blade. That may be the cause of this latest crack in one of my ACRM-2 blades.

In effect, I would say that all heat treated SR blades have residual stresses within. For the same steel, generally the softer it is, the less residual stresses.
 
I can only think that having such a high percentage of cracks and subsequent time and hassle for replacements can not be worth the savings. A crack like that can really damage your face.
Due to the nature of the products use, I would see such a percentage as a large inherent risk in buying such a brand.

as to the TI‘s - I’ve never heard of them having such failure rates, neither published nor spoken of in the forums so it is surprising to me.

luck you managed a shave without injury. Be careful with the others
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I can only think that having such a high percentage of cracks and subsequent time and hassle for replacements can not be worth the savings. A crack like that can really damage your face.
Due to the nature of the products use, I would see such a percentage as a large inherent risk in buying such a brand.

as to the TI‘s - I’ve never heard of them having such failure rates, neither published nor spoken of in the forums so it is surprising to me.

luck you managed a shave without injury. Be careful with the others
TI published their history about 15 years ago. It was in that publication that they stated their rejection rate. From memory, it was about 25%.

I don't have a copy of that history now. If you contact TI, they may be able to dig it out and send you a copy.
 
It sounds like TI rejects 25% of blades as part of their QA process so that faulty TI blades are virtually unheard of for end users. This makes sense for a high cost product were the brand has inherent value and the testing and rejection rate can be factored into the price. With a 25% rejection rate it sounds like TI tests their products well above the impact levels that they are likely to be exposed to in regular use. With a Titan you take your chances.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
It sounds like TI rejects 25% of blades as part of their QA process so that faulty TI blades are virtually unheard of for end users. This makes sense for a high cost product were the brand has inherent value and the testing and rejection rate can be factored into the price. With a 25% rejection rate it sounds like TI tests their products well above the impact levels that they are likely to be exposed to in regular use. With a Titan you take your chances.
Yes, I agree. For less than one fifth of the price for similar, I take my chances. So far only 2 Titans down out of 11 and both of those two were quickly replace at no cost to me and no hassle. All I had to do was send an email with photo and each vendor shipped me a free replacement the same day, no questions asked.

Sorry I can't say that a western vendor provides similar customer support.
 
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Tbh, havent really heard of a current production western razor with this issue, does that make it moot?

It makes sense if a western maker is really testing them to a point of 25% rejection before release. I wouldn’t replace a razor either with just a picture or phone call, as I’ve already tested the hell out of it before it left factory. Sounds like Titan skips the factory testing to save money and just replaces the end users if it breaks [emoji2375]


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I don't consider cracking an inherent problem with any blade. It is something that can happen with any blade steel that is heat treated to the extent and "thinness" of SR's. This heat treatment can and does build up internal stresses within the steel that cannot always be fully removed without overly decreasing the blade's hardness.

Most cracks are discovered during the initial honing of the blade by the manufacturer. There is no visible indication that a blade might crack due to residual internal stresses. It is just something that happens occasionally. Chips, even a micro chip, in the blade's edge can also act as a stress raiser that can commence a crack in the blade. That may be the cause of this latest crack in one of my ACRM-2 blades.

In effect, I would say that all heat treated SR blades have residual stresses within. For the same steel, generally the softer it is, the less residual stresses.

Two cracks from the same MFG with a specific razor in a short period of time IS a problem.
This does NOT happen with other razors.
Microchips do NOT cause cracks in blades.
If blades with cracks are discovered during the initial honing then there is a quality control issue.

There is very little if any stress left in properly heat treated steel.
I'm sure the Titans are not ground to the same thinness of say a Koraat or many of the fine vintage makers. I have some that are mind bogglingly thin and never had a crack develop without a cause.

Journeyman Knife Smiths and Master smiths produce blades that are flexed to 90 degrees without breaking for their Certificates. Can't imagine there is much stress in a blade that can flex to that degree.

Proper heat treat will not have a blade fail that's not under some physical stress - honing does not stress a blade.
 
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