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Murray & Lanman, Crusellas, etc.

Picked up a couple of new Hispanic scent type items over the weekend. These were next to the Florida Water in a small Hispanic grocery in Falls Chruch, Va:

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Both really Crusellas brand, which seems to be associated with Murray & Lanman of Florida Water and Kemp-Barclay, which I thought was the parent company.

The first, the spearment, is nice and light and I guess works as aftershave. No tenacity. Don't think you would want any.

I am kind of afraid to wear the other, which is "rue water." Very interesting scent. Has a nice note of pine resin--not pine tar, not pine needles--but also has a bit of peppermint and other interesting things going on. Bolder than most of these scents. Seems associated with witch craft though. Would not want anyone to recognize it and wonder what I was doing exactly!? Not even sure whether it is intended to be worn as a scent rather than, for instance, solely be spread around the house.

Rue water again raises the question of the relationship between Hoodoo, VooDoo, Santeria, Romani and other "Gypsies," and traditional European witchcraft, as rue water, or at least rue, seems to show up in more than one of these!

Not sure how many more of these scents I am going to buy blind, though. Too darn many of them out there according to the internet. Even at just about $4 for 7.15 oz, costs mount up and I do not know that I will end up wearing any of them, except the M&L Florida Water and the Colonia de Rosas or whatever it is. Also, the Crusella violets. Not sure that any of these have the pure spiritual purposes of, say, the Rue Water!

They are interesting, though.
 
That's why I warn people about getting into these "esoteric" fragrances- you'll end up wanting to try them all, and there's literally a couple of thousand out there. :biggrin:

When I first got into the Kananga waters and rose waters and such, I found a shop that had probably a twelve by twelve wall full of different brands that I'd never heard of- and as if I was under some sort of hoodoo, I gave the folks a hundred dollar bill and walked away with a literal trunkfull of the stuff. I ended up realizing that most, if not all, smelled exactly alike. I pick up the occasional bottle here and there now if it's selling for two or three bucks, but otherwise I have moved on from this niche of fragrance water.
 
When I first got into the Kananga waters and rose waters and such, I found a shop that had probably a twelve by twelve wall full of different brands that I'd never heard of- and as if I was under some sort of hoodoo, I gave the folks a hundred dollar bill and walked away with a literal trunkfull of the stuff. I ended up realizing that most, if not all, smelled exactly alike. I pick up the occasional bottle here and there now if it's selling for two or three bucks, but otherwise I have moved on from this niche of fragrance water.

I've been waiting to stumble across a place like that in NC, but so far no luck. Is there still anything like that around?
 
I've been waiting to stumble across a place like that in NC, but so far no luck. Is there still anything like that around?

This particular shop was in Texas, but there is the hoodoo shop in the Fayetteville Flea Market that carries a goodly amount of these tinctures. At least, they did; I haven't been there in about a year, but I cleaned them out once and walked away with about fifteen different brands. It may be worth a look next time you're in that neck of the woods.
 
I've been waiting to stumble across a place like that in NC, but so far no luck. Is there still anything like that around?

Nid, in another post I mentioned the Beauty World on Avondale Drive, just off of I-85 in North Durham as a source for classic barbershop scents. The same place had a whole rack of these things, which I stared at with wide-eyed wonder. Potions to attract money, love, etc... Who knew?!

BTW, if you go there, they're not in the same isle as the aftershaves, but further into the store.
 
That's why I warn people about getting into these "esoteric" fragrances- you'll end up wanting to try them all, and there's literally a couple of thousand out there. :biggrin:

When I first got into the Kananga waters and rose waters and such, I found a shop that had probably a twelve by twelve wall full of different brands that I'd never heard of- and as if I was under some sort of hoodoo, I gave the folks a hundred dollar bill and walked away with a literal trunkfull of the stuff. I ended up realizing that most, if not all, smelled exactly alike. I pick up the occasional bottle here and there now if it's selling for two or three bucks, but otherwise I have moved on from this niche of fragrance water.

I sure have not found that wall either!

If we share impressions on line of what we find maybe be can sort out what is worth buying and not, if there is anything worth buying beyond the ones we have talked about at some length. So far, it is not that they all smell the same in what I have found. I think I would stay away from things that are straight up "attract love, luck, and money." If I had known what Aqua de Rue was, I would have passed on that one, I think, although it is distinct and it is fun to know what it smells like. Maybe other rue waters smell differently.

Also, I do not need another bottle of cinammon water that smells exactly as one would think, with no issues of persistence there!

I am really more looking for the things I have never heard of that folks are using for inexpensive edts, etc. Not purely for magic, not matter what the joint uses are. Fl Water, Hoyts, Agua de Rosa, Crusellas Agua de Violets, probably another couple I am leaving out, were certainly great finds to me. Maybe that is all that is out there!

Also, I am still on the look out for things like Superior 70 menthol, which I guess is a bay rum with menthol, which I have never seen on a shelf. I do not think that I have heard of anyone using it for good luck!

There must have been other things out there like Hoyts back in the day, that are still around in some form!
 
Nid, in another post I mentioned the Beauty World on Avondale Drive, just off of I-85 in North Durham as a source for classic barbershop scents. The same place had a whole rack of these things, which I stared at with wide-eyed wonder. Potions to attract money, love, etc... Who knew?!

BTW, if you go there, they're not in the same isle as the aftershaves, but further into the store.

Great timing! I drove by there yesterday but they were closed on Sunday. Today I stopped back and found all the hoodoo stuff while I was looking for the Pinaud section. I grabbed a bottle of M&L Florida Water and a bottle of Kananga Water too. I also picked up a 3/4 oz. bottle of Hoyt's Bergamot Brilliantine and some Jockey Club Lavender Brilliantine. They still have the nice glass Hoyt's bottles there. This is definitely the place to go for all of your grooming and magical needs.
 
Rue water again raises the question of the relationship between Hoodoo, VooDoo, Santeria, Romani and other "Gypsies," and traditional European witchcraft, as rue water, or at least rue, seems to show up in more than one of these!

That's a good question. I guess that it has a lot to do with where you are. In my neck of the woods, hoodoo has a long history. There are still some root doctors with public practices and you can find all of this stuff in the local beauty supply stores. Interestingly, I think that the big increase in immigrants from Latin America has brought a new clientele to these stores, looking for the same gear to use in different situations. So, you have a new convergence of people who are engaged in practices that may also have some historically deep connection. Here's a link to a webpage with a lot of hoodoo-related information. Friends of mine with an interest in this tell me that it's pretty good.

http://www.luckymojo.com/
 
Great timing! I drove by there yesterday but they were closed on Sunday. Today I stopped back and found all the hoodoo stuff while I was looking for the Pinaud section. I grabbed a bottle of M&L Florida Water and a bottle of Kananga Water too. I also picked up a 3/4 oz. bottle of Hoyt's Bergamot Brilliantine and some Jockey Club Lavender Brilliantine. They still have the nice glass Hoyt's bottles there. This is definitely the place to go for all of your grooming and magical needs.

Dang it! I wanted to get there before you cleaned them out! :w00t:

You didn't buy "the last bottle" of anything in particular did you?
 
Dang it! I wanted to get there before you cleaned them out! :w00t:

You didn't buy "the last bottle" of anything in particular did you?

No, I went pretty light and the place is really huge--it looks like it used to be a supermarket. The Hoyt's Bergamot was a good find, but they had lots of it. The weird thing is that the one thing I wanted was out of stock. They didn't have a drop of Pinaud Bay Rum. And now neither do I. I guess that I'll have to prowl some of the Walgreens closer to Raleigh.
 
No, I went pretty light and the place is really huge--it looks like it used to be a supermarket. The Hoyt's Bergamot was a good find, but they had lots of it. The weird thing is that the one thing I wanted was out of stock. They didn't have a drop of Pinaud Bay Rum. And now neither do I. I guess that I'll have to prowl some of the Walgreens closer to Raleigh.

Good man! Let me know if you haven't found any by next weekend or so, I can send some your way.
 
That's a good question. I guess that it has a lot to do with where you are. In my neck of the woods, hoodoo has a long history. There are still some root doctors with public practices and you can find all of this stuff in the local beauty supply stores. Interestingly, I think that the big increase in immigrants from Latin America has brought a new clientele to these stores, looking for the same gear to use in different situations. So, you have a new convergence of people who are engaged in practices that may also have some historically deep connection. Here's a link to a webpage with a lot of hoodoo-related information. Friends of mine with an interest in this tell me that it's pretty good.

http://www.luckymojo.com/

I have looked at LuckyMojo.com a lot over time. Really neat site. Lots of fun to read up on what it has to say.

<Friends of mine with an interest in this . . . .>

With an interest in HooDoo? Santeria? Witchcraft?

"Older folks" or some new generation thing? You are in NC, right? My Mother, may she rest in peace, grew up Hayesville, Clay County. Part of what I am curious about is were they into HooDoo stuff back in those Hills, or was that an exclusively African American thing? Or a geographic thing not prevalent in in that particular part of the state. The imagination runs kind of wild. A certain amount of snake handling and speaking in tongues back in there, I am guessing, certain number of evangelical types passing through, but I have no idea re HooDoo and other folk-type spiritual activities. I can imagine white folks putting the whole thing very much down publicly as useless supersition, but then seeking out conjurers when they really needed something to happen!

And I do think there were mountain women who were healers, but my impression was it was more knowing herbs and the like that could be ingested or applied externally for sicknesses than items it was thought could be packed up in a little sack and carried around to make one lucky, but what the heck would I really know!
 
I have looked at LuckyMojo.com a lot over time. Really neat site. Lots of fun to read up on what it has to say.

<Friends of mine with an interest in this . . . .>

With an interest in HooDoo? Santeria? Witchcraft?

"Older folks" or some new generation thing? You are in NC, right? My Mother, may she rest in peace, grew up Hayesville, Clay County. Part of what I am curious about is were they into HooDoo stuff back in those Hills, or was that an exclusively African American thing? Or a geographic thing not prevalent in in that particular part of the state. The imagination runs kind of wild. A certain amount of snake handling and speaking in tongues back in there, I am guessing, certain number of evangelical types passing through, but I have no idea re HooDoo and other folk-type spiritual activities. I can imagine white folks putting the whole thing very much down publicly as useless supersition, but then seeking out conjurers when they really needed something to happen!

And I do think there were mountain women who were healers, but my impression was it was more knowing herbs and the like that could be ingested or applied externally for sicknesses than items it was thought could be packed up in a little sack and carried around to make one lucky, but what the heck would I really know!

In this thread I brought up some of the ways I saw Florida Water being used here in NC growing up.

Basically what I was told by a hoodoo mama was that anything with a good dose of bergamot (like Hoyts and Aqua Velva) is used to influence others, and to control their actions telepathically. Florida Water is like an all purpose holy water, Old Spice is used for warding off spirits, Orange or Rose water is good luck for gamblers, and Kananga water was used in communications with the dead.

This is definitely a cultural aspect that I have seen prevalent in black traditions; I have known a great many white "rut workers" too, but they don't seem to concern themselves much with elixir waters and the like. What they do use is generally crafted on the stove. We have a growing Hispanic community here as well, and it seems they share a working knowledge of the same old time tinctures and tonics. I remember wearing some Orange Blossom water to work once and the Mexican guys I worked with knew exactly what it was and wanted to know where to purchase it.
 
Kananga itself has a deeper history too. Kananga is ylang-ylang, so we know that it shows up in lots of fragrances. In SE Asia (where its native) it was used to control the living--primarily as a love potion. I don't know exactly how it got to the Americas, but it's hard to imagine that its use in perfumes isn't related (at some point) to both its fragrance and its powers. So, by the time that it was incorporated into hoodoo, voodoo, etc., it already had a long history of similar use. I guess that you could say that you can still find believers of ylang-ylang as a love potion when, after shopping at an upscale department store, a woman applies Chanel No. 5 before leaving for a date.
 
Carolina is in the house! By golly I love this forum. Folks that not only have read up on this stuff--any stuff one can think of actually--but who have real experience and are willing to take the time to write about it and share it.

What part of NC did you grow up in, ClubManRob? My impression of NC is that it really varies "culturally," for want of a better word, depending on what part of the state one is in. I miss my Mother for lots of reasons, but one thing I am really sorry I did not do was to find out more what it was like growing up where she did. It is all through a glass darkly at this point for me, and many of my impressions are strictly from my childhood, when adults tend to leave a lot out.

I never met any "rut worker." But viewed in retrospect, I sure had/have some unusual appearing and acting relatives down there in the mountains. If rut working was something poor, isolated, rural white folks were involved in, I sure doubt whether it was something that passed my family by. For want of a better word, a certain amount of supersition and folk wisdom as a part of daily life in those hills. Probably comes naturally for folks that are extremely dependent on things like weather in order to stay alive, and where the environment can be utterly unforgiving. Particularly my Grandfather's side of the family, I would say!

And I have no idea what race relations may have been like down there shortly after the turn of the century. I am ashamed to admit that I do not even know how many African-American families may have been around where my Mother grew up--if any.

I have a much better idea of what it was like for my Dad growing up in western Northern Virginia in apple orchard-ville. Very rural, very poor, too, at least for him, but not nearly so isolated. Where there are apple orchards there are railroads. Where there are railroads, there are people coming and going from the cities, and daily newspapers, and subsistence farmers follow the Washington Senators on a daily basis! Whether there were rut workers around, I would think so. I am sure there were/are rut workers in the cities, too!
 
The Nid Hog,

Hope you know I meant to include you as "Carolina in the house"! I know that Kananga is ylang-ylang, nearly pure ylang-ylang, if I recall, and my nose is not the best by any means, but Kananga Water does not exactly bring up Chanel No. 5 to me and I know that No. 5 is supposed to have ylang-ylang very forward in the mix! (Actually, No. 19 and 22 have ylang-ylang, too, according to Basenotes. So maybe it is something of a Chanel house note tying their scents together, although I have no recollection of what 22 and 19 smell like.) Wonder what the story is as to why.

I guess the other scent that is somewhat well-know for ylang-ylang is Brut. It makes a lot of sense to me that Brut has a lot of ylang-ylang in it, along with a lot of a lot of traditional scent making materials.

Very nicely written post, by the way. I suspect with 1000s of years of experience and use of ylang-ylang, the SE Asians are onto something in the love potion department! No. 5 may bring older women to mind for me, and I am sure it is hard for anyone not to have lots of associations with so ubiquitous a scent, but there is something magic about it. Clearly one of the best scents ever compiled to me--balance, complexity, evolving, deep, mysterious, persistent, and at the same time uplifting and fresh--and its sales year after year after year, here and in places like France, seem to bear out that it captures the universal popular imagination.
 
Carolina is in the house! By golly I love this forum. Folks that not only have read up on this stuff--any stuff one can think of actually--but who have real experience and are willing to take the time to write about it and share it.

What part of NC did you grow up in, ClubManRob? My impression of NC is that it really varies "culturally," for want of a better word, depending on what part of the state one is in. I miss my Mother for lots of reasons, but one thing I am really sorry I did not do was to find out more what it was like growing up where she did. It is all through a glass darkly at this point for me, and many of my impressions are strictly from my childhood, when adults tend to leave a lot out.

I never met any "rut worker." But viewed in retrospect, I sure had/have some unusual appearing and acting relatives down there in the mountains. If rut working was something poor, isolated, rural white folks were involved in, I sure doubt whether it was something that passed my family by. For want of a better word, a certain amount of supersition and folk wisdom as a part of daily life in those hills. Probably comes naturally for folks that are extremely dependent on things like weather in order to stay alive, and where the environment can be utterly unforgiving. Particularly my Grandfather's side of the family, I would say!

And I have no idea what race relations may have been like down there shortly after the turn of the century. I am ashamed to admit that I do not even know how many African-American families may have been around where my Mother grew up--if any.

I have a much better idea of what it was like for my Dad growing up in western Northern Virginia in apple orchard-ville. Very rural, very poor, too, at least for him, but not nearly so isolated. Where there are apple orchards there are railroads. Where there are railroads, there are people coming and going from the cities, and daily newspapers, and subsistence farmers follow the Washington Senators on a daily basis! Whether there were rut workers around, I would think so. I am sure there were/are rut workers in the cities, too!


My family lived all over NC before settling in central NC, so I've lived from the mountains to the sea in this great state. It really is a microcosm of all different ethnic/cultural backgrounds, and has been since long before "diversification" became a flash word.

Rut, (or Root) workers are the old women in the neighborhood or the town that your mother goes to when the children have took to illness, and she gives your mom a mason jar full of stinky water than is supposed to make you feel better. The white women that did this, I always heard called "rut workers", and the black women called themselves "Mama" (sometimes Hoodoo Mama). Usually everyone called them "Mama" followed by their first initial. I knew two or three women named Mama T. and you always had to clarify which one you were talking about (the Mama T at the top, middle, or the bottom of the hill). :biggrin:

I asked my girlfriend, who hails from the same part of Appalachia as your father, and she said that where she is from (Buchanan county) they called them "old widder women". Of course, when I was a kid I called them all "witches" because that's what they all reminded me of. :lol:
 
Thanks for the excellent info, ClubManRob. "Widder women" sure sounds familiar.

<I asked my girlfriend, who hails from the same part of Appalachia as your father, and she said that where she is from (Buchanan county)>

My Dad actually grew up in Linden, VA, which is in Fauquier and Warren Counties. About as far north as one can get and still be in Virginia. At the "gateway to the Shenandoah Valley," as Wikipedia puts it, Manasas Gap. Hilly, for sure, but probably nothing like the "hilly" in Buchanan County. Also, geographically much closer to truly major urban areas like Baltimore and the, as always, rather unique, at the time probably pretty sleepy, DC, although Buchanan is relatively near Charlestown, Winston-Salem, Greenscboro, Knoxville, which must have been humming centers of commerce back in the day.

Buchanan has or had a lot of mining, right? Probably a similar demographic to Linden back in the day with its apple orchards and railroad activity. Linden may have been a bit more Methodist and Buchanan a bit more Baptist--is the county still "dry"? the Baptists had to have a strong influence given that at least was dry. Dry minining towns! That is a similarity to where my Mom grew up! Clay County was dry until it because a vacation home center, as I recall!--but I sure do not know how much and what kind of effect that would have on such things as rut working! My utterly uneducated guess is that the Pentecostal faiths might have been more likely to endorse rut working!
 
Ah, I missed the part of your post where you clearly wrote western northern part of VA- I read it backwards. :wink:

Yes, definitely a lot of mining there in Blufield, Grundy, Tazewell, etc. Also a lot of apple orchards. According to my future father in law, when he was a kid it was all coal, apples and tobacco. Now there's not much of anything, even coal. All but the largest of mines seem to have shut down.

The "dry" situation there is similar to the county I live in now- technically, the county is dry, but there are a lot of places to legally buy alcohol depending on zoning requirements, etc. (Translation= give us $$$, we'll give you a permit). It seems like most of the population is baptist, from what I can tell.

If it makes any difference, my father in law knew exactly what Florida Water was, and said that his mother used to use it in her bath and to clean the countertops in the kitchen. :bored:
 
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