Murphy and Mcneil Bull and Bell base and other "low structure" lathers

[SterFry]

I love low structure lathers like Barrister Reserve, Mike's Naturals and, apparently, Bull and Bell by Murphy and Mcneil, as per the following statement on their website:

• Bull and Bell Series Tallow
  • Our tallow shave soap base provides a high-gloss, low structure lather with incredible protection, slickness, and post-shave feel.

High density/low volume lather just performs for me. So two points...

First- to those that have tried Bull and Bell specifically, how does it stand up to Aon and Kodiak?

Second- Can anybody recommend any other high performance low structure lathers? No preference between soap, cream. Would even consider gels and brushless if they are truly exceptional.

 

[JohannSebastianBach]

I'd also like to get some feedback on MM's Bull and Bell soaps. Thanks.

 

[Contact_vs_Feedback]

Interested in getting more information on this kind of lathering soaps.

Question: Will the triple milled English soaps like D R Harris and Geo F Trumper come in the same category of low structure lather?

 

[RayClem]

Shaving soaps that produce mounds of lather (high structure) may be great for Instagram photos, but they are not necessarily the best for shaving. High-structure lathers and foams incorporate a lot of air which is not great for lubricating and protecting the skin.

I think companies like Gillette and Barbasol who sell canned shaving foams convinced shavers that a huge mound of lather was ideal for shaving. That often meant that you used more foam, so they sold cans more quickly. That is no more true than the ads that portray multiblade shaving cartridges as being the best way to shave.

I have never used Bull and Bell or Mike's Natural soaps, so I cannot comment on their performance. However, it appears that the Bull and Bell soap is a modification of the excellent Murphy and McNeil AON formula. However, the Bull & Bell soap does not contain duck fat of Aon. I consider M&M Aon to be an elite soap, but I do have a number of soaps that I place above Aon in performance. I belive all of my top soaps would be considered low-structure.

Ariana and Evans Kaisen/Kaisen 2
Declaration Grooming Milksteak
Grooming Dept Kairos, Lamb Tallow, Mallard, and Nai formulas
House of Mammoth Tusk
Oaken Lab V3
Wholly Kaw Siero
Zingari Man Sego

These are the very best soaps I have evaluated. They will all provide me a near BBS shave with zero irritation and leave my skin feeling great for 16-24 hours afterward. There are numerous others that are nearly as good, but do not provide an extended post-shave experience.

 

[BigJ]

Shaving soaps that produce mounds of lather (high structure) may be great for Instagram photos, but they are not necessarily the best for shaving. High-structure lathers and foams incorporate a lot of air which is not great for lubricating and protecting the skin.

I think companies like Gillette and Barbasol who sell canned shaving foams convinced shavers that a huge mound of lather was ideal for shaving. That often meant that you used more foam, so they sold cans more quickly. That is no more true than the ads that portray multiblade shaving cartridges as being the best way to shave.

I have never used Bull and Bell or Mike's Natural soaps, so I cannot comment on their performance. However, it appears that the Bull and Bell soap is a modification of the excellent Murphy and McNeil AON formula. However, the Bull & Bell soap does not contain duck fat of Aon. I consider M&M Aon to be an elite soap, but I do have a number of soaps that I place above Aon in performance. I belive all of my top soaps would be considered low-structure.

Ariana and Evans Kaisen/Kaisen 2
Declaration Grooming Milksteak
Grooming Dept Kairos, Lamb Tallow, Mallard, and Nai formulas
House of Mammoth Tusk
Oaken Lab V3
Wholly Kaw Siero
Zingari Man Sego

These are the very best soaps I have evaluated. They will all provide me a near BBS shave with zero irritation and leave my skin feeling great for 16-24 hours afterward. There are numerous others that are nearly as good, but do not provide an extended post-shave experience.

Great post!! I also value ‘slickness’ far more than the mounds of lather often shown in photos.

 

[rbscebu]

Great post!! I also value ‘slickness’ far more than the mounds of lather often shown in photos.

Yes, but non-SR shavers often desire "cushion" from their lather when shaving. Does this "cushion" come from a lather with " high structure'?

 

[RayClem]

Yes, but non-SR shavers often desire "cushion" from their lather when shaving. Does this "cushion" come from a lather with " high structure'?

I shave with straight razors, DE razors and SE razors. I like low structure lathers because I find they can provide both slickness and cushion.

 

[Chaucer]

Interesting thread. I agree that slickness is the most important attribute of a shaving soap. I don’t mind having to re-lather mid-pass.

I’ve had good luck with Stirling mutton tallow and Catie’s Bubbles French style soaps and T&H and Knightsbridge creams. Can anyone say how they compare with the soaps on RayClem’s list?

 

[Hannah's Dad]

I think Stirling’s mutton tallow base is elite. I have M&M, B&M, WK, A&E, DG — but lately I’ve been using Varen (mutton) more than any other soap in my den. A truly under-rated star.

 

[santamariasteve]

What is a low-structured lather? Is it a quality "thin and slick" lather? We need to define terms.

 

[RayClem]

What is a low-structured lather? Is it a quality "thin and slick" lather? We need to define terms.

If you are defining terms, how do you define "thin". Many people would see that term and think overly-hydrated, at least I do. I define a low-structure lather as one that is dense, like yogurt rather than light and fluffy like whipped cream.

 

[santamariasteve]

I consider a "factory thin" lather as something like Cremo, or slightly thicker.

 

[SterFry]

Shaving soaps that produce mounds of lather (high structure) may be great for Instagram photos, but they are not necessarily the best for shaving. High-structure lathers and foams incorporate a lot of air which is not great for lubricating and protecting the skin.

I think companies like Gillette and Barbasol who sell canned shaving foams convinced shavers that a huge mound of lather was ideal for shaving. That often meant that you used more foam, so they sold cans more quickly. That is no more true than the ads that portray multiblade shaving cartridges as being the best way to shave.

I have never used Bull and Bell or Mike's Natural soaps, so I cannot comment on their performance. However, it appears that the Bull and Bell soap is a modification of the excellent Murphy and McNeil AON formula. However, the Bull & Bell soap does not contain duck fat of Aon. I consider M&M Aon to be an elite soap, but I do have a number of soaps that I place above Aon in performance. I belive all of my top soaps would be considered low-structure.

Ariana and Evans Kaisen/Kaisen 2
Declaration Grooming Milksteak
Grooming Dept Kairos, Lamb Tallow, Mallard, and Nai formulas
House of Mammoth Tusk
Oaken Lab V3
Wholly Kaw Siero
Zingari Man Sego

These are the very best soaps I have evaluated. They will all provide me a near BBS shave with zero irritation and leave my skin feeling great for 16-24 hours afterward. There are numerous others that are nearly as good, but do not provide an extended post-shave experience.

You and I have similar tastes. I've tried most of those soaps. If you don't mind my asking, which Grooming Dept base do you consider the most premium? Kairos or Nai I believe are the newest.

 

[RayClem]

You and I have similar tastes. I've tried most of those soaps. If you don't mind my asking, which Grooming Dept base do you consider the most premium? Kairos or Nai I believe are the newest.

My current favorite is Mallard. There has been only one soap released in that improved formula so far. It was a West Coast Shaving Exclusive for Valentine's Day called Amore. It was spectacular.

The Grooming Dept web site says that several scents of Mallard are due to be released on August 12. However, I have been unable to confirm that date. It has already been postponed twice due to health issues. I am hoping the soaps will be released next Thursday, but I do not know if the date is firm.

Although Mallard is my current favorite, that may well change. Mohammad has some improvements to the Kairos formula that he plans to introduce later this year. Kairos is already so good that any improvement is likely to be incremental. Thus, if you are interested in Kairos, there is no need to wait.

For those who like vegetable based soaps, Nai is wonderful. I have two Nai soaps in my den. Considering the price of Nai is higher than Kairos and Mallard, I do not plan to purchase additional Nai soaps.

 

[SterFry]

My current favorite is Mallard. There has been only one soap released in that improved formula so far. It was a West Coast Shaving Exclusive for Valentine's Day called Amore. It was spectacular.

The Grooming Dept web site says that several scents of Mallard are due to be released on August 12. However, I have been unable to confirm that date. It has already been postponed twice due to health issues. I am hoping the soaps will be released next Thursday, but I do not know if the date is firm.

Although Mallard is my current favorite, that may well change. Mohammad has some improvements to the Kairos formula that he plans to introduce later this year. Kairos is already so good that any improvement is likely to be incremental. Thus, if you are interested in Kairos, there is no need to wait.

For those who like vegetable based soaps, Nai is wonderful. I have two Nai soaps in my den. Considering the price of Nai is higher than Kairos and Mallard, I do not plan to purchase additional Nai soaps.

Thank you, sir. I think I will go with Kairos. I was checking out WCS Kairos listings and it can be confusing as there appears to be a Kairos base with "aloe vera juice" as the first ingredient and one without.

 

[FarmerTan]

Shaving soaps that produce mounds of lather (high structure) may be great for Instagram photos, but they are not necessarily the best for shaving. High-structure lathers and foams incorporate a lot of air which is not great for lubricating and protecting the skin.

I think companies like Gillette and Barbasol who sell canned shaving foams convinced shavers that a huge mound of lather was ideal for shaving. That often meant that you used more foam, so they sold cans more quickly. That is no more true than the ads that portray multiblade shaving cartridges as being the best way to shave.

I have never used Bull and Bell or Mike's Natural soaps, so I cannot comment on their performance. However, it appears that the Bull and Bell soap is a modification of the excellent Murphy and McNeil AON formula. However, the Bull & Bell soap does not contain duck fat of Aon. I consider M&M Aon to be an elite soap, but I do have a number of soaps that I place above Aon in performance. I belive all of my top soaps would be considered low-structure.

Ariana and Evans Kaisen/Kaisen 2
Declaration Grooming Milksteak
Grooming Dept Kairos, Lamb Tallow, Mallard, and Nai formulas
House of Mammoth Tusk
Oaken Lab V3
Wholly Kaw Siero
Zingari Man Sego

These are the very best soaps I have evaluated. They will all provide me a near BBS shave with zero irritation and leave my skin feeling great for 16-24 hours afterward. There are numerous others that are nearly as good, but do not provide an extended post-shave experience.

So my friend, is Arko a low or high structure lather?


A LOT is riding on your answer!

 

[Eben Stone]

I used to describe my idea lather as thin and runny. But I think that gives the wrong impression. Perhaps a better description is like "wet paint" or "melted marshmallow." Maybe that's over hydrated, I don't know. I like peaks, but definately not merangue.

Is what I'm describing qualify as high density low structure?

I'm confused on the terms.

 

[RayClem]

So my friend, is Arko a low or high structure lather?


A LOT is riding on your answer!

Sorry, but I cannot answer that question. I did use Arko one time. It left my face so dry and irritated that I never tried again. Something in the formula (it may be the citronella) just does not work with my skin.

 

[RayClem]

I used to describe my idea lather as thin and runny. But I think that gives the wrong impression. Perhaps a better description is like "wet paint" or "melted marshmallow." Maybe that's over hydrated, I don't know. I like peaks, but definately not merangue.

Is what I'm describing qualify as high density low structure?

I'm confused on the terms.

If it works for you, stick with it.

Many people describe a high density, low structure lather as Greek yogurt consistency. However, other variations are sour cream and creme fraiche. I guess your wet paint and melted marshmallow descriptions are similar.

Less dense lathers might be described as cool whip, whipped cream, marshmallow fluff and meringue. Canned shaving foams fall into this category of course.

There was a time when people thought fluffy lathers were great. The canned foam guys came out which shaving gels when people started to figure out that fluffy lathers were not necessarily the most protective.

 

[Contact_vs_Feedback]

I used to describe my idea lather as thin and runny. But I think that gives the wrong impression. Perhaps a better description is like "wet paint" or "melted marshmallow." Maybe that's over hydrated, I don't know. I like peaks, but definately not merangue.

Is what I'm describing qualify as high density low structure?

I'm confused on the terms.

That is how I also like my lather.

Being a face latherer I hardly ever get the photogenic peaky lather but my lather has some cushion, sheen and well hydrated that rinses off razor easily.

Wet paint is a very close description of my ideal lather and that is what I try to achieve.

So my friend, is Arko a low or high structure lather?


A LOT is riding on your answer!

Arko is whatever I want it to be.

I can use it for bowl lathering and get the deeded peaky lather and also use it in face lathering and get the low structure lather.


Arko is great, it might not tick some boxes in post shave feel but it definitely submits a strong case in lather department.