Muhle Rocca Version 4

[alin]

My Rocca birch bark (R95 I guess?) has arrived, but I am traveling so I still could get my hands on it. One more week of waiting until Rocca Day!
I hear only great things about the Rocca, I am sure it’s a fantastic razor. I just hope my skin can handle it

Congratulations on your purchase! Rocca is a fantastic device!
A little advice look for blades that fit perfectly with this device. If you feel that the device is aggressive, it means that you do not have the right blade in it! I found out this after about a year of trying different blades! All this time I thought Rocca was too aggressive for me and I can't use him for daily shaving. Until recently I tried a relatively obscure BIC Astor blade and had a revelation. I also like the Astra SS, but I don't like the Astra SP at all.

 

[JohnnShasta]

My Rocca birch bark (R95 I guess?) has arrived, but I am traveling so I still couldn’t get my hands on it. One more week of waiting until Rocca Day!
I hear only great things about the Rocca, I am sure it’s a fantastic razor. I just hope my skin can handle it

Hope you enjoy the shaves you are going to get

 

[Peterv1]

Does anyone knows if the Rocca V4 head is sold separately?

 

[Iridian]

Does anyone knows if the Rocca V4 head is sold separately?

No, they don't. They do for R89 and R41, a shame.
Regarding "V4": If you order from Mühle directly, all Rocca heads are V4 by now and were so for over a year if not more already.

Talking with Mühle support, even when doing so in German, they say there is only one head by now, and that only production method changed a long time ago. We know better that there were differences and changes that were never communicated well, just like the whole Rocca introduction was anything but smooth back in the days.

They did a much better job with the stainless and titanium versions of the R41. I hope they will create another new type of head, ideally also in stainless steel, in the hopefully near future. But I am afraid this is wishful thinking, the Companion definitely wasn't what I was hoping for (clarification: I don't own a Companion and likely never will, it just doesn't appeal to me by spec).

 

[Peterv1]

No, they don't. They do for R89 and R41, a shame.
Regarding "V4": If you order from Mühle directly, all Rocca heads are V4 by now and were so for over a year if not more already.

Talking with Mühle support, even when doing so in German, they say there is only one head by now, and that only production method changed a long time ago. We know better that there were differences and changes that were never communicated well, just like the whole Rocca introduction was anything but smooth back in the days.

They did a much better job with the stainless and titanium versions of the R41. I hope they will create another new type of head, ideally also in stainless steel, in the hopefully near future. But I am afraid this is wishful thinking, the Companion definitely wasn't what I was hoping for (clarification: I don't own a Companion and likely never will, it just doesn't appeal to me by spec).

Okay yes I recently bought the R41 head separately to fit my incoming 85mm SS ikon handle, never tried a rocca and since it gets lots of praise I wondered if they sold it separately as well, too bad because the intire R94 is another +100$... anyway thx for the info

 

[Iridian]

If you like the R41 the Rocca isn't going to win you over anyways, IMO.

 

[Peterv1]

If you like the R41 the Rocca isn't going to win you over anyways, IMO.

Only use R41 on several days of growth the Lupo 72 is basically my most used daily shaver

 

[Leverspro]

The Rocca shaves well, but for me the star of the show is the real birch handle.

 

[Peterv1]

Hi Gents
It's all a bit strange contacted Muhle about a V4 head and replied.. the V3 is basically their latest head and V4 is referring to the intire razor

 

[Iridian]

I am afraid you just got told what she as person in support/back office knows and she answered to the best of her knowledge. They have good service and once sent me a replacement head (plate+comb) for my zamac R41, for free. But they are not much involved in the wetshaving community forums and theories.

(BTW, blacken your and her name, maybe?)

I also wrote several times to Mühle, about the "V4" head, the weight of various handles etc.. Scales were used, information compared, photos of various Rocca heads. For the steel only version there were already 3 quite different weights given, unlike the pure steel handle the others were much more hollow, etc. etc... strangely enough I don't find the thread with this anymore.

I gave up prodding them for answers after a while.

There were different versions of the head that were documented and photos taken on various wetshaving forums.
I got told: "There is only one head for the Rocca." (...) "Only the production process changed." (supposedly from MIM+CNC to full CNC) and I also got told that a lot of wrong information is on the internet about the Rocca head. The "V4" might indeed internally refer to the Rocca R94, the pure steel version with steel handle.

But that doesn't compute. Sooo... V3 is the head, V4 is the stainless steel razor, so what is the birch bark model with V3 head, V5?! Na, not really.

I am afraid you will get the very same head you are already using, and it won't be any different.

 

[exppii]

If you like the R41 the Rocca isn't going to win you over anyways, IMO.

I just finished a shave with the R41 and I am debating getting the Rocca.

The R41 is a very nice razor once the chatter issues are addressed. Still, it is a bit iffy against the grain.

How is the Rocca with respect to blade chatter/deformation?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I am afraid you just got told what she as person in support/back office knows and she answered to the best of her knowledge. They have good service and once sent me a replacement head (plate+comb) for my zamac R41, for free. But they are not much involved in the wetshaving community forums and theories.

(BTW, blacken your and her name, maybe?)

I also wrote several times to Mühle, about the "V4" head, the weight of various handles etc.. Scales were used, information compared, photos of various Rocca heads. For the steel only version there were already 3 quite different weights given, unlike the pure steel handle the others were much more hollow, etc. etc... strangely enough I don't find the thread with this anymore.

I gave up prodding them for answers after a while.

There were different versions of the head that were documented and photos taken on various wetshaving forums.
I got told: "There is only one head for the Rocca." (...) "Only the production process changed." (supposedly from MIM+CNC to full CNC) and I also got told that a lot of wrong information is on the internet about the Rocca head. The "V4" might indeed internally refer to the Rocca R94, the pure steel version with steel handle.

But that doesn't compute. Sooo... V3 is the head, V4 is the stainless steel razor, so what is the birch bark model with V3 head, V5?! Na, not really.

I am afraid you will get the very same head you are already using, and it won't be any different.

Yes, it's very clear the production process changed.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Iridian]

How is the Rocca with respect to blade chatter/deformation?

There is, but I did not have problems with it.
The Rocca doesn't clamp or tension the blade, the posts and contact surface there are a bit wider, but that was it. The R41 actually does a lot more clamping, did you really experience any chatter with it?

You hear the Rocca, it has an amazing sound due to the head size, but yeah, that's chatter/vibration what you will hear, and it's noticeably more audible ATG.

THIS SAID... the Blackbird I only recently shaved with also doesn't clamp the blade tightly, and still does an exceptionally close shave. I would maybe not discard the razor because of this one metric. I was often pleasantly surprised when things worked out which I thought wouldn't, for instance the long groves of the Blackbird handle give more than enough grip combined with the thumb rest, wouldn't have expected that e.g..

The chatter might be a total no-go for some, but some audible feedback while shaving is useful. If you HATE that, the Razorock Wunderbar is so torsioned and clamped, and this is now no joke or exaggeration, I read of people who couldn't unscrew the head when a blade was loaded after weeks of non-use due to glue and adhesion. That's how tight it is. And I had to use zippo fuel to reopen my Wunderbar head, too. After that I didn't screw it tight after shaving anymore and rather opened it a bit.

So if you want it tight, Papa Smurf just told you. The thing with the Rocca is, there is nothing bad about it. It's just not exciting either, and the closed lather channels always rubbed me the wrong way, you can shoot gunk out of them when holding it under a faucet.

Waaah, sorry if I got carried away!

 

[never-stop-learning]

Peter - The way I evaluate razors is to get the razor and shave with it. Specs and other peoples opinions can only take you so far.

In my opinion, the Rocca R95 v4 is a fine razor - one of the razors that has a spot in my Den. I also have a Rocca R96 v3.

I prefer the Rocca over the R41 - personal opinion, the R41 is also a fine razor.

My understanding is that the v3 uses a combination of MIM (Metal Injection Molding) and CNC (Computer Numerical Control) in the manufacturing process and the v4 is all CNC. CNC is reported to be more precise. There are other threads on B&B comparing the Rocca heads.

I have a v3 and a v4. You can tell from looking which one is MIM (v3) and which one is CNC (v4). In practice (actual shaving) there is not a big difference, but I would still get the CNC (which I understand to be the v4).

Hope this helps.

 

[never-stop-learning]

@Peterv1 and any others who are interested, post 44 on this thread has pics comparing the v3 (MIM cap) vs v4 (all CNC).

Muhle Rocca Version 4

Thanks for the detailed description of the difference between versions 1 through 4. I have a V3 that is my most efficient (and maybe my favorite) DE razor. Your write-up is tempting me to contact Muhle to see if they would exchange my V3 top plate for a V4. I'm sure that there would be a...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[exppii]

did you really experience any chatter with it?

Yes sir!

It really surprised me given how little the blade is exposed. With some blades it was ruining the experience, not the auditory feedback but the feeling of lack of rigidity. Let's say it felt inconsistent and ready to randomly bite. I figured x whiskers in contact at any time times y force to cut them = more than the blade can handle.

The fix was simple, I knocked down the cutting edge on an old blade and placed under the working blade. Muuuuch better. Still, across the grain is out of the question. I opened a thread in my excitement and the more senior members were pulling my leg, claiming that I killed the beast

 

[Peterv1]

Peter - The way I evaluate razors is to get the razor and shave with it. Specs and other peoples opinions can only take you so far.

In my opinion, the Rocca R95 v4 is a fine razor - one of the razors that has a spot in my Den. I also have a Rocca R96 v3.

I prefer the Rocca over the R41 - personal opinion, the R41 is also a fine razor.

My understanding is that the v3 uses a combination of MIM (Metal Injection Molding) and CNC (Computer Numerical Control) in the manufacturing process and the v4 is all CNC. CNC is reported to be more precise. There are other threads on B&B comparing the Rocca heads.

I have a v3 and a v4. You can tell from looking which one is MIM (v3) and which one is CNC (v4). In practice (actual shaving) there is not a big difference, but I would still get the CNC (which I understand to be the v4).

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the help dropped Muhle another mail regarding the CNC V4 head

 

[Iridian]

Thanks for all the help dropped Muhle another mail regarding the CNC V4 head

I am not sure what further insights you hope to gain.

 

[Peterv1]

I am not sure what further insights you hope to gain.

Not looking for further insights just a thanks for someone which helped me a lot with all of my wet shaving questions, and trying to let Muhle support know about the difference between MIM and CNC machined heads

 

[never-stop-learning]

Not looking for further insights just a thanks for someone which helped me a lot with all of my wet shaving questions, and trying to let Muhle support know about the difference between MIM and CNC machined heads

You are most welcome, Peter.

Always glad to be of assistance.