Muhle Rocca Version 4

[Brutus]

Thanks for the detailed description of the difference between versions 1 through 4. I have a V3 that is my most efficient (and maybe my favorite) DE razor. Your write-up is tempting me to contact Muhle to see if they would exchange my V3 top plate for a V4. I'm sure that there would be a cost, but it is tempting me, even though I am perfectly happy with the V3.

If you contact Mühle directly, they may sell you the complete (version 4) replacement head for €30.
Payment through PayPal is possible.

Conversely to what someone else stated; having wet-shaved for more than 40 years, I did not notice a significant change between version 3 and 4 and I neither did I find any issue with (Feather) blade chatter - at least not more than my R101 (R41 with black handle).

When I had contacted Mühle previously, they told me that there was no difference in shave between version 2 and 3, which I could confirm for myself.
After version 1, it may thus have been more about improving production techniques than improving the way this razor shaves.


Good luck.



B.

 

[Steve_in_CT]

If you contact Mühle directly, they may sell you the complete (version 4) replacement head for €30.
Payment through PayPal is possible.

Conversely to what someone else stated; having wet-shaved for more than 40 years, I did not notice a significant change between version 3 and 4 and I neither did I find any issue with (Feather) blade chatter - at least not more than my R101 (R41 with black handle).

When I had contacted Mühle previously, they told me that there was no difference in shave between version 2 and 3, which I could confirm for myself.
After version 1, it may thus have been more about improving production techniques than improving the way this razor shaves.


Good luck.



B.

I had contacted Muhle last week via email, offering to purchase the new, version 4 head. They promptly replied asking for photos of my current, version 3 Rocca head. Following that, on the next day, I received an email informing me that they would be sending me a version 4 Rocca head. I was very impressed with the customer service and somewhat (pleasantly) surprised that they were providing the new head at no charge. Perhaps something in the photos indicated a production flaw? In any event I am now awaiting the new Rocca head and will report whether I notice any difference in the performance vis a vis the version 3.

 

[Brutus]

I had contacted Muhle last week via email, offering to purchase the new, version 4 head. They promptly replied asking for photos of my current, version 3 Rocca head. Following that, on the next day, I received an email informing me that they would be sending me a version 4 Rocca head. I was very impressed with the customer service and somewhat (pleasantly) surprised that they were providing the new head at no charge. Perhaps something in the photos indicated a production flaw? In any event I am now awaiting the new Rocca head and will report whether I notice any difference in the performance vis a vis the version 3.

I received a similar e-mail, where they apologized for any inconvenience and told me they were taking customer support and complaints seriously, and asked for pictures and a description of the fault.
I had to make it clear that there was nothing wrong with my Rocca, just - as a “shaving enthusiast” - I wanted to try the latest version of the Rocca head.

It sounded like they were surprised by my request and had assumed that there must have been something wrong with my Rocca.



B

 

[dikdik_s]

Dear friends, its been a while since not participating in any conversation on your beautiful forum, sorry for that.

As dear members described there is a known cnc prodution method, and a new MIM production method. MIM production method is a new kind of technological method, a special powder is injected on a mold that is 3-5 times larger that the final desired product. It is threated with a heating process and it shrinks to its original size. This is a so rough explanation of this method. And yes the final product is a stainless product.

Do not mix V3 vs V4 as different or an improvement on one to other. They are exactly the same head with different production method. From now on I will call V3 as MIM and V4 as CNC.

As you see above they are identical, except production techniques. On last photo I was holding one handed, may seem a little different but in reality they are identical. You can confirm this via Muhle Germany, which we did through our distributor of our country.

The only difference if that is a difference, the blade pins on MIM technique is is not milimeter scale but in a micrometer scale thicker than the cnc head, that is because of the shrinking process in MIM technique, that scale of adjustments can be difficult in that technology.

What that causes in some samples is, if you want to use topcap of MIM production on a CNC down plate, because of that micrometer thickness of blade pins, it does not fit in fully. I dont know why anyone would try combo or variation that but just a tiny thing I noticed.

Other than that, be sure they are totaly same head with a same shave feeling. Whichever handle you choose, or whatever production method used head comes in the box in these latest products, it is the same Rocca pleasure you will get from all of them.

Best Regards

 

[Brutus]

Dear friends, its been a while since not participating in any conversation on your beautiful forum, sorry for that.

As dear members described there is a known cnc prodution method, and a new MIM production method. MIM production method is a new kind of technological method, a special powder is injected on a mold that is 3-5 times larger that the final desired product. It is threated with a heating process and it shrinks to its original size. This is a so rough explanation of this method. And yes the final product is a stainless product.

Do not mix V3 vs V4 as different or an improvement on one to other. They are exactly the same head with different production method. From now on I will call V3 as MIM and V4 as CNC.

As you see above they are identical, except production techniques. On last photo I was holding one handed, may seem a little different but in reality they are identical. You can confirm this via Muhle Germany, which we did through our distributor of our country.

The only difference if that is a difference, the blade pins on MIM technique is is not milimeter scale but in a micrometer scale thicker than the cnc head, that is because of the shrinking process in MIM technique, that scale of adjustments can be difficult in that technology.

What that causes in some samples is, if you want to use topcap of MIM production on a CNC down plate, because of that micrometer thickness of blade pins, it does not fit in fully. I dont know why anyone would try combo or variation that but just a tiny thing I noticed.

Other than that, be sure they are totaly same head with a same shave feeling. Whichever handle you choose, or whatever production method used head comes in the box in these latest products, it is the same Rocca pleasure you will get from all of them.

Best Regards

Thank you for this report.

Comparing my v.3 against my v.4, I found that it is not that hard to tell the top caps apart.

As you can see on the images that dikdik_s provided, the v.3 top plate has a hollow stem, fairly noticeable circular marks on the inside, and the alignment stems tend to flare ever so slightly at the base, while the v.4 has a solid stem, absence of noticeable circular marks, and the stems have close to no flare at the base.

In case of the bottom plates, it is however much harder to tell them apart and - if you have both - it is possible to unintentionally mix the two plates, in which case the odd fit that dikdik-s mentioned may give it away.

Regarding the shave, I found no noticeable difference and - as I mentioned earlier - the change seems to have been more driven by the desire to improve production techniques than by the desire to improve the product.


B.

 

[dikdik_s]

Thank you @Brutus for kind addons.

Top plate: Underside of the MIM product, you can see two circles of injection points used in the production. Main screw seems like hollow as you mentioned.

Buttom Plate: They are identical as my friend said, but with a loop you can see the flow patterns of the MIM technology on side parts. A little hard work for the eyes in this age but hey we have some work left, we could do it

So these are the only differences I could find, if you call these a difference between the two heads, as I mentioned in my early post.
Personaly, I would choose the MIM head (V3) because MIM technique is a newer and complex production technology, that difference would charm me to own it in my collection, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you choose what you like. End shave and feeling will not change, you will like the Rocca I am sure.


I dont know if Muhle will change all their production techique to CNC or will they continue using their MIM tehnique. Time will tell.

Best regards.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Thanks @dikdik_s for such an informative review and fantastic photos. I have a V2 and a V3 Rocca, and have just bought a V4 R94 today. Your confirmation that there is no difference in the shaving dynamics of the V3 and the V4 tallies with my experience of the V2&V3. AS you say it just appears that Muhle is perhaps refining its production process.

Either way I really like the Rocca, V2, V3 and now hopefully V4!

 

[Earl_Grey]

I've now had 5 shaves with my new V4 head Rocca. I can definitely state that this razor is a vast improvement over previous models. The shaves are no longer harsh but buttery smooth while maintaining the efficiency. For me it hits the sweet spot right between my Timeless Ti.68SB & Ti.95SB. Just perfect and I salute Mühle for getting it right this time, seems the CNC process was the answer to their problems.

I can now highly recommend the Rocca V4, after being very disappointed by V1 & V3.

 

[Steve_in_CT]

Just to add some more confusion: I received my replacement cap and base plate directly from Muhle in Germany today. It looks exactly like the CNC pictures posted by dikdik_s, and my older Rocca head looks just like his pictures of the MIM head. I'll shave with it tomorrow, and we'll see if I can tell any difference in the way it shaves. What's odd, however, is that this CNC head, according to Muhle, is V3. Here's what was included on the packing slip,

 

[Fozzie Bear]

After shaving with my new Rocca R94 razor I have to say I do notice a slight difference. It seems to be slightly smoother and perhaps a little less prone to bite. I think Muhle have finally nailed it!....only took them four try’s!

 

[Steve_in_CT]

After shaving with my new Rocca R94 razor I have to say I do notice a slight difference. It seems to be slightly smoother and perhaps a little less prone to bite. I think Muhle have finally nailed it!....only took them four try’s!

I have only used the new CNC Rocca once (I'm not sure whether to call it V3 or V4 - see my earlier post above), but I had the same reaction as you: it seems a bit smoother, but just as close.

 

[NicksDad]

Today I shaved half of my face with my Timeless aluminum and the other half with my v4 R96. The Rocca beat it handily. Makes me wish I had a bigger face with more stubble.

 

[wombadom]

Dear friends, its been a while since not participating in any conversation on your beautiful forum, sorry for that.

As dear members described there is a known cnc prodution method, and a new MIM production method. MIM production method is a new kind of technological method, a special powder is injected on a mold that is 3-5 times larger that the final desired product. It is threated with a heating process and it shrinks to its original size. This is a so rough explanation of this method. And yes the final product is a stainless product.

Do not mix V3 vs V4 as different or an improvement on one to other. They are exactly the same head with different production method. From now on I will call V3 as MIM and V4 as CNC.

As you see above they are identical, except production techniques. On last photo I was holding one handed, may seem a little different but in reality they are identical. You can confirm this via Muhle Germany, which we did through our distributor of our country.

The only difference if that is a difference, the blade pins on MIM technique is is not milimeter scale but in a micrometer scale thicker than the cnc head, that is because of the shrinking process in MIM technique, that scale of adjustments can be difficult in that technology.

What that causes in some samples is, if you want to use topcap of MIM production on a CNC down plate, because of that micrometer thickness of blade pins, it does not fit in fully. I dont know why anyone would try combo or variation that but just a tiny thing I noticed.

Other than that, be sure they are totaly same head with a same shave feeling. Whichever handle you choose, or whatever production method used head comes in the box in these latest products, it is the same Rocca pleasure you will get from all of them.

Best Regards

Thank you very much.

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

 

[Kevy]

Great thread. I bought a V3 with the birch handle and I did like using it but there was a bit of blade feel that at times, felt like it could bite. I emailed Mühle UK about the V4 head and they asked me to email pictures of the head I had, which I did, and they emailed me back to say they would send me a new head at no cost to me. Fantastic customer service. I'm not sure what they were looking for in the pictures, of anything.
I used the V4 head today and I think it's an improvement over the V3 head. Much smoother and I think the blade feel has been tamed down a bit. I found the V4 head gave me a very comfortable shave and I think Mühle have nailed it with this version.

 

[HabanaRon]

Great thread. I bought a V3 with the birch handle and I did like using it but there was a bit of blade feel that at times, felt like it could bite. I emailed Mühle UK about the V4 head and they asked me to email pictures of the head I had, which I did, and they emailed me back to say they would send me a new head at no cost to me. Fantastic customer service. I'm not sure what they were looking for in the pictures, of anything.
I used the V4 head today and I think it's an improvement over the V3 head. Much smoother and I think the blade feel has been tamed down a bit. I found the V4 head gave me a very comfortable shave and I think Mühle have nailed it with this version.

I just watched your vid and then, poof, here you are lol. Could be a sign. Kevy and God are telling me to buy a Rocca!

 

[faroll2]

I just watched your vid and then, poof, here you are lol. Could be a sign. Kevy and God are telling me to buy a Rocca!

I've placed an order of the v4 yesterday. I cannot wait for it to arrive, very exciting!!

 

[Demaratus]

I just ordered a V4 too. I will use the razor more if the new model has less blade feel than V3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tenreasy]

Got another great shave from the V4. The V4 performs much better than the V3 - plus Muhle finally got the build process corrected.

 

[francosi]

Hello, is there a way to buy just the head, as I have plenty of handles ?

 

[Steve_in_CT]

I just ordered a V4 too. I will use the razor more if the new model has less blade feel than V3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In my case, at least, the V4 is smoother and has less blade feel than the V3. The efficiency is unchanged.