Muhle R41 (ZAMAK head) changed

[ivan_101]

Some of you know I like to find the small differences in razors. Like you buy a 1968 Tech, and then you buy a 1962 that looks the same and it has a bigger gap.

I have been postponing this post, as I needed to receive a package with a 3rd R41 head of the new stock to have rock solid data. Mind you all my heads are original products that came in the original packaging and all. We are not talking Chinese imitations.

I have had two R41 heads, both bought in 2014. One a full razor and one bought as a spare. They are the 2013 version. I have checked that twice with the measurement data both here and on other forums.

In May 2020 I bought a third head from Cannaught. It went into the drawer and that was it.

In March 2021 I found the R41 head discounted at a Polish store and added one to my big order. The head arrived and I loaded a blade in it just to check. Since I have been shaving many times for 6 years with my old R41 bought in 2014, when I looked from below I noticed a smaller exposure. Grabbed the old 2014 razor loaded another blade from the same pack, and I was not imagining things. The exposure was less. So, logically I opened the drawer and got that 2020 head from Connaught. It was the same as the 2021. Less exposure. Yesterday I received another head and it is the same. Here are the measurements of cap and bottom plate.
Please measure the plate with the calipers at the middle teeth. Same applies for the cap. Measure at the middle. The width differes at the ends and the middle on both the cap and the bottom plate.

Cap new - 20.3mm
Cap old (2016) - 20.1mm

Plate new - 25.4mm
Plate old (2013) - 25.2mm

The change happened between 2014 and early 2020. By accurate measuring and checking when exactly you bought your R41, I believe we could narrow the period.

How does it shave? I only had a few comparison shaves. But one thing is very noticeable. The new head, having a smaller exposure, narrowed the effective angle of the shave. Shallow doesn't work anymore. You need to use neutral or steep.

I have been wondering how come in recent years many users on the forum said the R41 isn't very aggressive and all that. Maybe this is the explanation.

 

[fast shaver]

Send a smaller gap one to me & I will give it a thorough review. This is really strange that they changed the gap & no one noticed.
Nice Detective work by you.

 

[ivan_101]

Send a smaller gap one to me & I will give it a thorough review. This is really strange that they changed the gap & no one noticed.
Nice Detective work by you.

Please read carefully the original post. We are not talking gaps here. Only exposure.
All the heads that are sold currently should be the new version.

 

[fast shaver]

Yep.. blade exposure will change how a razor shaves.
Thank You for pointing that out to me.

 

[ivan_101]

Sorry, gents. That "Cap old (2016)" should be "Cap old (2013)".
My bad.

 

[Iridian]

Awful practice to do that.

 

[APBinNCA]

I have read quite a few threads here and elsewhere on the original changes. Am I understanding correctly that they are basically making them less and less aggressive and you have just discovered a further step?

It would seem like a mixed bag; if the effective cutting angle is reduced, that is no good. But if it's already a rough shaver then it seems logical. This is probably the only razor I have actively avoided owning so I only know what I have read.

 

[ivan_101]

Am I understanding correctly that they are basically making them less and less aggressive and you have just discovered a further step?

Yes.

But I don't think the new version is that milder compared to the 2013. Still a very aggressive razor.

 

[Iridian]

(...) they are basically making them less and less aggressive and you have just discovered a further step?
(...)
It would seem like a mixed bag

Yeah, it is also very annoying from a collector perspective. Many razor companies don't bother, but Mühle and EJ are among the worst companies regarding non- and miscommunication. They offer service and answer all the time, but I am talking about transparency and actually mentioning such changes.

Contradicting answers when asking Mühle directly by mail abound. The so called "V4" head was never called like that by Mühle and not every support person knows about it. The small corrections done to the Rocca cap and plate were likely only the tip of the iceberg. Who does own 2-3-4 copies of the very same head, after all. Ivan?

There was also the 2011 R41 and the later 2014 models with more blade support. The Chinese Z0 clone copied the first and for the final version they changed to the supposed current version of the cap.

Who knows what R89 I got sent, I didn't like how it shaves and am glad that I got the R41. The R89 would only have convinced me to go back to cartridges.

They produce for the mass market, but for ever more ridiculous prices. EJ is a bit cheaper than Mühle, exported Mühle is expensive, but if you want to experience classic Mühle zamac razors for ridiculous 75 USD, check out Baxter of California.

I am not sure how long they can go on selling different wood inlays for the handles and the occasional collector edition in their store with the ever same R89 head. The current limited edition model is a sterling silver coated R89 for a mere 650 EUR, before it was the Titanium R41 with Berlin or London skyline and more moderate price, but the idea to make a steel version of the R89, that still didn't occur to them, coating is easier.

The R89 got cloned countless times by Chinese manufacturers, but they didn't pick it for a stainless steel model so far either, mostly rather copying Razorock, Henson etc...

I see the chance to win over people to wetshaving by making razors safer and safer, but the point where they become inefficient and difficult to get a good shave with might actually fail to impress people.

 

[ivan_101]

Yeah, it is also very annoying from a collector perspective. Many razor companies don't bother, but Mühle and EJ are among the worst companies regarding non- and miscommunication. They offer service and answer all the time, but I am talking about transparency and actually mentioning such changes.

Contradicting answers when asking Mühle directly by mail abound. The so called "V4" head was never called like that by Mühle and not every support person knows about it. The small corrections done to the Rocca cap and plate were likely only the tip of the iceberg. Who does own 2-3-4 copies of the very same head, after all. Ivan?

There was also the 2011 R41 and the later 2014 models with more blade support. The Chinese Z0 clone copied the first and for the final version they changed to the supposed current version of the cap.

Who knows what R89 I got sent, I didn't like how it shaves and am glad that I got the R41. The R89 would only have convinced me to go back to cartridges.

They produce for the mass market, but for ever more ridiculous prices. EJ is a bit cheaper than Mühle, exported Mühle is expensive, but if you want to experience classic Mühle zamac razors for ridiculous 75 USD, check out Baxter of California.

I am not sure how long they can go on selling different wood inlays for the handles and the occasional collector edition in their store with the ever same R89 head. The current limited edition model is a sterling silver coated R89 for a mere 650 EUR, before it was the Titanium R41 with Berlin or London skyline and more moderate price, but the idea to make a steel version of the R89, that still didn't occur to them, coating is easier.

The R89 got cloned countless times by Chinese manufacturers, but they didn't pick it for a stainless steel model so far either, mostly rather copying Razorock, Henson etc...

I see the chance to win over people to wetshaving by making razors safer and safer, but the point where they become inefficient and difficult to get a good shave with might actually fail to impress people.

First of all I would suggest to not mix up here the Chinese heads. Who told you the Chinese R41 heads are exactly like the 2011? Do you own a 2011? "Clone" means an exact copy. And none of the Chinese heads are exact copies.

And R89 has hundereds of imitations. Almost all with changes. Let's keep strictly to the topic, please.

 

[APBinNCA]

but if you want to experience classic Mühle zamac razors for ridiculous 75 USD, check out Baxter of California.

I see they have a helpful "Subscribe and save," 15% off and I can get a new razor every 6 months!

 

[Iridian]

First of all I would suggest to not mix up here the Chinese heads. Who told you the Chinese R41 heads are exactly like the 2011? Do you own a 2011? "Clone" means an exact copy. And none of the Chinese heads are exact copies.

And R89 has hundereds of imitations. Almost all with changes. Let's keep strictly to the topic, please.

I broke my R41 and I am not sure if it was a 2011, it was very old and long used. It had no brass thread, but wonder if it really makes much of a difference when it breaks there at the cap.

In March 2020 I was given by Mr. Xi a list of all Chinese R41 and R89 clones with exact differences listed, what did you expect. There are threads about the DSCosmetics Z0 head and you can find them with Search Forums, I would suggest the term Z0 and possibly my username. Differences to the R41 and similarities were discussed, also between R41 versions.

 

[ivan_101]

In March 2020 I was given by Mr. Xi a list of all Chinese R41 and R89 clones with exact differences listed, what did you expect. There are threads about the DSCosmetics Z0 head and you can find them with Search Forums, I would suggest the term Z0 and possibly my username. Differences to the R41 and similarities were discussed, also between R41 versions.

Sorry, not interested in the Chinese imitations or the differences between them...

 

[Iridian]

There also seem to be quite some differences between the R41 GS heads. Unless you want to limit it to zamac.

The German "Nassrasur.com" forum, direct linking seems to be not allowed to it as it has similar content as B&B has a lengthy Mühle R41 thread that also discovered interior changes of the Mühle R41 GS head (an interior ridge and the teeth not being polished at the insides, some photo comparisons), and numerous users reporting differences to their zamac versions.

 

[uptown]

If anybody wants to duplicate the 2011 R41 you can still buy a 3D printed top plate (plastic) from Shapeways. One plate is called the Hurricane and the other Spitefire. Probably cost at least $30 with shipping and takes several weeks to ship. One word of caution I bought a Hurricane used it several times but broke the center stud as I tightened it to the base plate too much. This was developed by a guy who use to belong to a wet shaving forum.

 

[ivan_101]

There also seem to be quite some differences between the R41 GS heads. Unless you want to limit it to zamac.

The German "Nassrasur.com" forum, direct linking seems to be not allowed to it as it has similar content as B&B has a lengthy Mühle R41 thread that also discovered interior changes of the Mühle R41 GS head (an interior ridge and the teeth not being polished at the insides, some photo comparisons), and numerous users reporting differences to their zamac versions.

R41GS has been different to the ZAMAK R41 since the very beginning. A member on a French forum has made an extensive comparison. Differences are seen easily on the comparison photos. The teeth are of different thickness, The GS has flatter teeth etc. He also reports the GS leaves a more scratchy feeling on his face, whatever that means.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Since the Spitfire Cap was mentioned.....

@BradWorld sent me his Spitfire Cap:

Shave notes from my Journal:
"The Spitfire Cap, used in place of the Cap on a current Mühle R41, reportedly allows the shaver to experience the approximate feel of the 2011 R41. I've never experienced the 2011 R41, so my comments will offer comparisons to the current stock R41, the R41/Yintal and the R41/SLOC. Firstoff, how does the R41/Spitfire shave? Lots of audible feedback. Lots of blade. Very close shave. No blood. Not a daily driver, but not bad at all. Almost in Roedter 1909 territory. My initial thought is that I like the R41/Yintal and the R41/SLOC more than the Spitfire. Both impress me as being smoother and more effective."

 

[lancre]

I purchased mine from Maggards on Black Friday 2017.

Measuring it today:

Cap mine - 20.25mm
Cap new - 20.3mm
Cap old (2013) - 20.1mm

Plate mine - 25.10mm
Plate new - 25.4mm
Plate old (2013) - 25.2mm

Make of it what you will.

 

[BradWorld]

Since the Spitfire Cap was mentioned.....

@BradWorld sent me his Spitfire Cap:

Glad you are enjoying that Spitfire David!

 

[never-stop-learning]

Glad you are enjoying that Spitfire David!

Yes indeed! Thank you again my friend!