Muhle R41 vs Merkur 15C - relative aggressiveness, smoothness etc.

[Pegasus K]

The R41 is one of my most aggressive/efficient razors, my Merkur 15C is my mildest. My DE89 and 34C sit somewhere in between.

If I had to assign an aggressiveness rating to them (and I usually prefer not to do this since there’s a lot of YMMV in here), I’d rank them as follows:
Muhle R41: 9
Merkur 34C: 6
Edwin Jagger DE89: 5
Merkur 15C: 2-3

If you're looking for something more aggressive/efficient than your 34C and DE89, but smoother than you R41, the 15C is not the way to go, IMHO.

I would wholeheartedly recommend that you take a closer look at the Italian Fatip Piccolo or Grande Originale (open comb). Very efficient, very smooth, very close shaves. There is a slight issue with blade alignment that you can investigate further in this forum, but it has practically become a non-issue for me.

If you like your R41, I don’t see you having any problem with using the Fatip as your daily driver. They are very reasonable priced too, especially for an all-brass (not zamak) razor!

Good luck!

 

[Dave-the-rave]

For cheap get the Razorock Old type. It's more efficient than the 15C and very smooth and comfortable.
Costs a but more get the RR Game Changer with OC plate. I like the .68 very much.

 

[Pappa Piccolino]

Thanks Pegasus K and Dave-the-rave. Appreciate your posts.

@Pegasus K - this YMMV thingy is undoubtedly true, but it makes picking razors quite hard - I had my heart set on a 15C, but you say it is half as aggressive as a 34 C ? Wow - that messes with my head big time. Also, I saw a review done by Maggard razors on the Fatip razors in 2017 (the V2 version of the head) - overall they gave a 5/10, but for the fit and finish they gave a 2/10, which worries me a little.

@Dave-the-rave, thanks for those tips. Do you know where the Razorock razors are made ?

Thanks all.

 

[Atlantic59]

...this YMMV thingy is undoubtedly true, but it makes picking razors quite hard - I had my heart set on a 15C, but you say it is half as aggressive as a 34 C ? Wow - that messes with my head big time. Also, I saw a review done by Maggard razors on the Fatip razors in 2017 (the V2 version of the head) - overall they gave a 5/10, but for the fit and finish they gave a 2/10, which worries me a little.

Maggard made that review to keep people from complaining they did not buy a perfect work of art for $19. The Fatip is a great shaving all-brass razor. That is the best reason to buy one. I've got two of them, a Mk1 and a Mk2. They're the razors I use most often.

I have also used the Razorock Old Type and it's a nice shaving razor, as well. Much milder than the original Gillette Old Types, though. I gave a RR Old Type to my brother to get him started shaving with DEs.

 

[Marcopolo1254]

. . . I guess I am looking for something more aggressive than the 34C / 37C / DE89, and less aggressive than the R41, for those days when the R41 is a little too much.

Many thanks.
[/QUOTE]
I think you'd find that a Schone or Fatip satisfies that description quite nicely.

 

[Pappa Piccolino]

Thanks gents.

@Atlantic59, you may well be right about the Maggard review, but the example they showed did not even have the lugs welded fully to the bottom of the cap, so the blade actually slid into that gap. Of course, they chose a particularly bad example to make the point, but still,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Atlantic59]

Thanks gents.

@Atlantic59, you may well be right about the Maggard review, but the example they showed did not even have the lugs welded fully to the bottom of the cap, so the blade actually slid into that gap. Of course, they chose a particularly bad example to make the point, but still,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The camera does not lie, but it only shows what you point it at, which can be misleading.

The lugs are not fully welded, they seem to be spot welded. Despite that, I have never had a misalignment problem with either of my Fatips. I can force it to misalign by tightening the handle almost all the way and forcibly twisting the blade, but that is just not going to happen under normal conditions.

It's really simple, and I'm sorry, but it drives me up the wall that people make such a huge deal out of this. Load the razor with the cap upside down, keep it vertical, put on the blade, the base plate, tighten down the handle. The blade slides down the posts, nicely centered, until it is clamped into place. Nothing goes crooked, the blade does not get caught under the posts. Check the alignment, if it is off slightly, lightly loosen the handle, use the blade tabs to line it up, then tighten the handle. It takes five or ten seconds. Voila!

The Razorock German 37, the Maggard V2 razors, some of the old vintage razors, all of them can load the brade slightly crooked if you try hard enough. But nobody complains except for the Fatip. Then, it suddenly gets treated as a huge deal breaker issue and a badge of shame for the company.

An all-brass razor that shaves fantastically for $19? Sign me up! It is not a piece of jewelry or a work of art, true. Could the quality be improved, yes. It shaves very well, though.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Thanks Pegasus K and Dave-the-rave. Appreciate your posts.

@Pegasus K - this YMMV thingy is undoubtedly true, but it makes picking razors quite hard - I had my heart set on a 15C, but you say it is half as aggressive as a 34 C ? Wow - that messes with my head big time. Also, I saw a review done by Maggard razors on the Fatip razors in 2017 (the V2 version of the head) - overall they gave a 5/10, but for the fit and finish they gave a 2/10, which worries me a little.

@Dave-the-rave, thanks for those tips. Do you know where the Razorock razors are made ?

Thanks all.

Razorock stainless razors are machined in Canada. The Zamac razors I'm guessing are India or China.

 

[WetShaveVet]

I can vouch for Tanuki’s recommendation of the Razorock Gamechangers. I shave absolutely every day. I have the Razorock Game Changer .84 Open Comb and it is very efficient and very smooth. No irritation.

 

[xiletero]

Hi xiletero. Thanks for that.

I'm strictly only a face/neck shaver. I have seen a few more reviews of Youtube of the 15C, and the main point of difference among the reviewers is the aggressiveness. None say it's the most aggressive OC they have used, most describe it as efficient, striking a nice balance between aggressiveness and smooth, irritation free shaving. One fellow said it is just a hair's width more aggressive than the 34C, which I find hard to believe, but anyway.......

Thanks.

For me the "teeth" were too pointy...like a rake. I prefer the square ones in a Karve OC.

 

[Pegasus K]

Thanks Pegasus K and Dave-the-rave. Appreciate your posts.

@Pegasus K - this YMMV thingy is undoubtedly true, but it makes picking razors quite hard - I had my heart set on a 15C, but you say it is half as aggressive as a 34 C ? Wow - that messes with my head big time. Also, I saw a review done by Maggard razors on the Fatip razors in 2017 (the V2 version of the head) - overall they gave a 5/10, but for the fit and finish they gave a 2/10, which worries me a little.

@Dave-the-rave, thanks for those tips. Do you know where the Razorock razors are made ?

Thanks all.

If you had your heart set on the 15C, please, don't let me stop you by any means!!! Keep in mind that in this crazy hobby of ours, most of the fun is in the journey, not the destination... You, and only you, can say whether the 15C, or any other razor for that matter, ticks all your boxes or not.

Half the aggressiveness of the 34C? See, that’s why most of the time I am reluctant about aggressiveness ratings, they can be very misleading...

Let me try to describe my 15C the best that I can, hopefully it will help to clear some confusion I started (I sincerely hope I don’t add any more…).

My 15C is a very efficient razor, especially for growths of 2+ days. It does remove my stubble effortlessly and with very little to no irritation, redness, nicks or cuts. It is when I’m aiming for a BBS that I feel that this razor falls a bit short. For me, the 15C is far from the easiest razor I can bet a BBs from. It is possible, no doubt, but for me it takes quite a bit more time, passes and buffing/cleanup… I think this is the best I can do to clear things up, hope it helps!

Regarding Maggards, I’ve done business with them many times and have absolutely nothing but good things to say about them. Great selection, competitive prices, speedy shipping… About their reviews, I completely agree with @Atlantic59 on this one, so I'll leave it at that...

Look, the 15C is not outrageously expensive and not a bad razor at all… If you check these forums, you’ll find a ton of people with nothing but praise for it. It might very well turn out to be everything that you were looking for in a razor…

Good luck and happy shaves!

 

[Pegasus K]

I think @Dave-the-rave 's recommendation makes a lot of sense... If you are still hesitant about the 15C, the RazoRock Old Type would be an excelllent and cheap way of figuring out if this razor is for you. You can get the head only for about $8 US!

Good luck!

 

[rudyt]

Check the alignment, if it is off slightly, lightly loosen the handle, use the blade tabs to line it up, then tighten the handle. It takes five or ten seconds. Voila!

More like one or two seconds. I don't get why this is such an obsession with people either. $20 for a bulletproof "tool" (not an art piece) is hard to beat. I have a v1 Piccolo from 2014, a first gen Schone, and will get a Storto once international shipping gets back to normal.

I blame the Internet - people readily adopt other people's opinions rather than making up their own minds

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Yeah anyone talking about having a bad Fatip is just making it up. Including me and my two bad Grande's.
And my Gentile top cap that fell apart. Musta been the wrong kind of bullet proof.

Anyone unclear here's the deal. Fatips are great shavers but the quality is hit and miss.
You might get a good un ya might not. That's not my opinion. It's fact. How many bad ones are there?
Who knows. How many Simpsons brushes are shedders? Who knows. Plenty have presented their problems
with both Companies on Forums over the years though. It's just plain arrogant to dismiss them.

 

[ivan_101]

No comparison between the R41 and the 15C. The first one is so aggressive, the second is sooo mild [and ineffective]. Someone in the posts above already mentioned that it has negative blade exposure. The 15C is an open comb razor in appearance only. My advice: Stay away from it.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Hi chuckd and rusty1. Thanks for those replies. Much appreciated.

In addition to my R41 (yes, it is the post 2013 model), I also own a Merkur 34C, 37C, and Edwin Jagger DE89. It seems to me as though there is a very large gap between the R41 on the one hand, and the other 3. It's like from the sublime to the ridiculous. I guess I am looking for something more aggressive than the 34C / 37C / DE89, and less aggressive than the R41, for those days when the R41 is a little too much.
Many thanks.

I must have missed something in your OP. So something in between those razors mentioned. The 15C or RR OLD won't do it for you then. How about the Gillette OLD if you want vintage. That will do it. Or a .84 Game Changer.
Or a Fatip Grande/Fatip Picollo.

 

[rudyt]

Yeah anyone talking about having a bad Fatip is just making it up. Including me and my two bad Grande's.
And my Gentile top cap that fell apart. Musta been the wrong kind of bullet proof.

I never stated that Fatips don't have QC issues, and completely agree that lots of them have alignment issues. I'm saying i don't understand why alignment issues are such a big deal.

As for bulletproof, I stand by my statement. There are a lot less Fatip equipment failures than and other sub-$30 razor out there, and frankly, yours is only the second failure I have ever seen documented. The other was @Cal's broken Storto alignment pin. There are no widespread reports of failed Fatips, only QC and alignment issues.

 

[thombrogan]

@Rosseforp had an alignment pin fall off his Fatip Piccolo recently, too. JB Weld and Dr. Doug returned it to awesomeness.

Editing to add my Fatip Grande is an excellent razor that delivers as much aggression and smoothness as one’s skill level allows. I‘m not too good at being smooth and the razor tries to help (most comfortable open comb feel for shaving steep), but it should be perfect for anyone moderately skilled (not me yet).

 

[Rosseforp]

@Rosseforp had an alignment pin fall off his Fatip Piccolo recently, too. JB Weld and Dr. Doug returned it to awesomeness.

Editing to add my Fatip Grande is an excellent razor that delivers as much aggression and smoothness as one’s skill level allows. I‘m not too good at being smooth and the razor tries to help (most comfortable open comb feel for shaving steep), but it should be perfect for anyone moderately skilled (not me yet).

The alignment pin broke on my first Schöne, no problems with it's Amazon replacement. I think @Chan Eil Whiskers had to replace his first Schöne also

Seeing as I got my Mk1 used, it was JB Weld to the rescue , and a Lo Storto handle to make it a gem

 

[thombrogan]

and a Lo Storto handle to make it a gem

??? I thought your GEMs were a Gull Wing/Bullet Tip and a Micromatic Open Comb