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Mudgee?

ajkel64

ajkel64

Check Out Chick
Staff member
There is a member from Mudgee, I will have to have a look. He may have even replied to the thread that you started @Legion about where are you out there in The Great Southern Land.
 
Legion

Legion

Staff member
JaggardJ said:
Does this article help to narrow things down?
www.mudgeeguardian.com.au

Early history of shearstone sharpening deposits

A reporter in the Town and Country Journal which was printed in Sydney, from 1870 to 1919, stated...
www.mudgeeguardian.com.au www.mudgeeguardian.com.au
Click to expand...

ajkel64 said:
Thanks @JaggardJ, hopefully @Legion will let us know if you are on the right track.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it was actually that article that put me onto it. I was hoping, if we had boots on the ground, someone could go to where the article describes and see if a)it's accessible, and b) if maybe there are any likely samples lying around that we can test out.
 
cotedupy

cotedupy

ajkel64 said:
Just wondering if @cotedupy might have any further information to add.
Click to expand...

I was about to say - 'not much'. As I had tried to research a bit about the Mudgee stone early this year, and there just isn't a massive amount of info out there.

But then I re-read one of the old contemporary accounts I found describing the operation and opening ceremony, and it gives a decent amount of info, so after a bit of googling you actually can pinpoint the exact location of the Havilah quarry.

So that's a start. Also have just noticed that the Mudgee Museum and Historical Society have a contact for on their website, so I'll ask if they know anything.

---

Some other thoughts...

The link above describes the Havilah quarry as producing carbonates. Which I think is probably a bit of a red herring for us here, as it's my understanding is that you wouldn't be able to sharpen steel on them - carbonates are largely comprised of Limestones and Dolomites, and they're considerably softer than steel. I have seen mentioned a sharpening stone that in German is called 'Dolomiter' I think, though I suspect that name may derive from the Dolomite mountains in northern Italy, rather than the mineral itself.

So I'm guessing we're probably looking for something else, perhaps a hard sandstone. And also that stones used by shearers were likely to have been quite coarse - akin to a scythestone. Though that doesn't sit particularly well with this line:

'However, a local demand still remained, particularly with shearers. H P Tritton, a shearer and resident of Mudgee and Cullenbone for many years said in his 1964 book, “Time Means Tucker,” that to a shearer a shearstone is a prized possession and Mudgee sharpening stones were always admired and envied. Few shearers would allow anyone to use their “Mudgee".'

At harvest time a scythestone was effectively a disposable item, and people would go through many of them in a relatively short space of time - it's why you don't see many unbroken old scythestones despite the scale of the industry. But the portrait of the Mudgee stone as a treasured possession suggests a shearing stone might have been a little but different.* Shearing sheep on the scale that people tend to is something that's going to take quite a lot out of a blade, so if your stone isn't a relatively cheap and disposable sandstone, then you'd probably want something much hardier, and that might get interesting.

In the first article comparisons are made between the Mudgee stone, Turkish, and Washitas. This is probably just because everything was - Turkish and Washitas were (and still are!) gold standards for whetstones. But it probably also suggests the kind of 'grit' level we're looking for in the Mudgee stone, and it's quite fine - probably finer than the finest sandstones, and certainly faster - hard sandstones tend to be relatively slow for how coarse they are, as large particles of quartz burnish quite easily.

So it might turn out that the Mudgee stone isn't a sandstone and might actually be something a bit interesting (sandstones are not particularly interesting). From the account of the opening ceremony it was certainly a large operation they started with and must have taken considerable capital investment, and belief that they were onto a something of a winner. The scale of what's described, as well as the fact that the Havilah quarry is mentioned on Wikipedia, means that it shouldn't be too tricky to find once you're on the ground I imagine. Though you could probably also just ask whoever owns the land...




*Can you tell I know nothing at all about sheep farming?
 
Legion

Legion

Staff member
It seems like something someone would know about in the local pub.

That historical society is probably our best bet, without a local to go look.
 
Legion

Legion

Staff member
Ad on first page.

 
cotedupy

cotedupy

Legion said:
www.lexico.com

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
www.lexico.com www.lexico.com

Boom! Found this. Seems the Mudgee stone was a slate. That’s useful info.
Click to expand...

Ah good find D... slate whetstones for the win!

Ties in with something I was wondering... what exactly 'shearstone' was. I think perhaps refers to it shearing along a plane, i.e. slate. Rather than having owt to do with sheep.
 
Legion

Legion

Staff member
cotedupy said:
Ah good find D... slate whetstones for the win!

Ties in with something I was wondering... what exactly 'shearstone' was. I think perhaps refers to it shearing along a plane, i.e. slate. Rather than having owt to do with sheep.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but probably sheep. All the ads I found have been in Australian or NZ shearing trade publications. Back then most shearing sheds probably didn't have power, so the shearers were using those scissor like hand shears, and had Popeye forearms. Honing was probably a daily chore.

They still use those in South Africa.
 
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cotedupy

cotedupy

Legion said:
Maybe, but probably sheep. All the ads I found have been in Australian or NZ shearing trade publications. Back then most shearing sheds probably didn't have power, so the shearers were using those scissor like hand shears, and had Popeye forearms. Honing was probably a daily chore.

They still use those in South Africa.
Click to expand...

Ya reckon? I tried to google a bit about the etymology, and didn't throw up much tbh. Though I thought more likely referring to this kind of thing: Shear (geology) - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_(geology)

Anyhow... all will be revealed when Sandy from the Mudgee Historical Society returns after the Christmas and New Year break!
 
Legion

Legion

Staff member
cotedupy said:
Ya reckon? I tried to google a bit about the etymology, and didn't throw up much tbh. Though I thought more likely referring to this kind of thing: Shear (geology) - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shear_(geology)

Anyhow... all will be revealed when Sandy from the Mudgee Historical Society returns after the Christmas and New Year break!
Click to expand...
Yeah, fairly confident the term was more aimed at the target market, as that was the primary need in the region at the time. But Sandy will know. And I hope she has an example to photograph for us.
 
cotedupy

cotedupy

Legion said:
Yeah, fairly confident the term was more aimed at the target market, as that was the primary need in the region at the time. But Sandy will know. And I hope she has an example to photograph for us.
Click to expand...

The thing that made me wonder was that a couple of those old accounts in the links say things like: 'The previous year Mr. X had discovered a great quantity of shearstone at Havilah...'

As though it were a name referring to the rock itself, rather than the end product. And it seemed a bit odd (to my mind) to name a rock something just because it was good for making whetstones for sheep shearers.

I did obviously ask them if there were any examples of Mudgee stones still around, so fingers crossed. I suspect we will probably get some good info out of it - if they didn't know anything she presumably would've just said: 'Nah, never heard of it mate.'
 
cotedupy

cotedupy

Well I found us a picture:

2D0E5818-DA24-4607-82F1-6E0B80DBBA5E.jpeg


It seems that, despite their evident superiority to any other known whetstone in the world, production at Mudgee lasted less than two years.

Page 44 here: http://lastsidepublishing.co.nz/assets/ShearingMag/2020-nov-shearingmag.pdf
 
Legion

Legion

Staff member
Cool. I figured the stone would be brown, as that is the colour of the building slate mined in Mudgee.
 
cotedupy

cotedupy

Legion said:
Cool. I figured the stone would be brown, as that is the colour of the building slate mined in Mudgee.
Click to expand...

All of the middle of Australia is brown David. I think that was a safe bet ;).

What's interesting about all this is that the stones are repeatedly described as finer than Turkish and Washitas, which makes sense seeing as they're a slate. Also faster, though I suspect they might be playing fast and loose with that claim. But if they're a fine slate that does at least a reasonable amount of cutting, then the Mudgee stone is probably actually shaping up to be a reasonable razor hone I imagine.
 
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