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Mr Reynolds is Causing Me Pain …

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
Gentlemen, I have a razor that’s so far beaten me, but I am making progress and believe that I will get an edge in the next outing or two (I’m an optomist). It’s reminding me of Glen Mercurio’s saying that ‘Honing is easy, until it isn’t’. The razor is a Frederick Reynolds chopper, should be easy peasy but it’s been anything but easy. The problem is that when I go above a certain grit level, the edge breaks down. For instance, at 4k the edge is straight and even and will mostly pass HHT after stropping, at 8k it isn’t straight and even and won’t pass HHT. You can see the little shiny liney along the edge with a 7x - 10x loupe at 8k that isn’t there at 4k.

Usually an old chopper I don’t measure the bevel angle, because most of them are too steep anyway. But since this one wasn’t holding an edge at higher grits, I measured it, 16.6 degrees which is fine if the steel is good but apparently it is not. So I put a layer of 1 mil Kapton on it which which gave me about 17.1 degrees, and back on the stones. This time I had a straight even edge at 8k, and hair parted when it touched the edge. That’s a fully set bevel at 8k. But the shiny line and poor HHT is back after the JNat finisher, even with good slurry which tends to wear micro fins and burrs off, and again, you can see it. It’s a beautiful shiny bevel, it just has futz at the apex and I know that it will not shave well.

But I’m one step further and in a day or three I’ll try a layer of Scotch and a layer of Kapton which will give me about 18 degrees and we’ll see what that does.

Advice is most welcome!

7AC71D51-3531-4138-B599-E6E53BC80FCA.jpeg
 
A little confused by the photo, since it's a Manhattan? Is that a Reynolds mark?

Anyway, I have the twin to that razor, almost down to the pattern in the horn. Mine came in at about 14 degrees, on average. My first attempt was with two layers of electrical tape and the edge looked good but it deteriorated over the course of the first shave. Now that I think about it I cant recall if took it up to 17 or 18, but it did at least shave acceptably on the second try.
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Does yours have a wedge? Mine doesn't, it has the "boot heels" at the wedge end.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
You are correct sir, I mis-posted the name, but unfortunately B&B will not let me correct it now.
 
I recommend keeping doing what you think is right. For a wedge even at 19 degrees, you are ok in my book. I wouldn't enjoy the shave as much but I'm not into that grind.

You're almost there my friend. You got this. I have a hollow grind that is being a pain. No idea why it keeps falling apart with an angle of 17.5 in my book. Steel wasn't deteriorated but something is just not making it happy.

You got this!
 
I probably shouldn't rely on memory, even though this was very recent. Mine was 14.3 at the most acute and right at 15 from about the midpoint towards the heel. So based on that, I think I tried it with one layer first and ended up using 3 layers of 7 mil electrical tape.

I went from Fuji 8k to trans ark. I didn't shave test off the 8k but I did strop and HHT and it was behaving like I expected at that point. I'll have to see how the edge holds up.
 
Gentlemen, I have a razor that’s so far beaten me, but I am making progress and believe that I will get an edge in the next outing or two (I’m an optomist). It’s reminding me of Glen Mercurio’s saying that ‘Honing is easy, until it isn’t’. The razor is a Frederick Reynolds chopper, should be easy peasy but it’s been anything but easy. The problem is that when I go above a certain grit level, the edge breaks down. For instance, at 4k the edge is straight and even and will mostly pass HHT after stropping, at 8k it isn’t straight and even and won’t pass HHT. You can see the little shiny liney along the edge with a 7x - 10x loupe at 8k that isn’t there at 4k.

Usually an old chopper I don’t measure the bevel angle, because most of them are too steep anyway. But since this one wasn’t holding an edge at higher grits, I measured it, 16.6 degrees which is fine if the steel is good but apparently it is not. So I put a layer of 1 mil Kapton on it which which gave me about 17.1 degrees, and back on the stones. This time I had a straight even edge at 8k, and hair parted when it touched the edge. That’s a fully set bevel at 8k. But the shiny line and poor HHT is back after the JNat finisher, even with good slurry which tends to wear micro fins and burrs off, and again, you can see it. It’s a beautiful shiny bevel, it just has futz at the apex and I know that it will not shave well.

But I’m one step further and in a day or three I’ll try a layer of Scotch and a layer of Kapton which will give me about 18 degrees and we’ll see what that does.

Advice is most welcome!

View attachment 1452649

Try a bottle of Scotch instead of a layer. That sometimes seems to work to fix it for me. 🤣 sorry couldn't resist.

Steve when setting the bevel did the steel feel different harder or softer? Just wondering if you need to cut deeper to get to good steel or if it is really just the overall steel make up. Do you have a Tam o shanter stone to try? Sometimes weird steel plays better with stones like that.
 
With edge issues there are 3 things to try.

1. Joint the edge to remove any bad or questionable steel. Jointing is quick, easy and does not remove a lot of steel. One or two light strokes on the corner of the stone to remove all the fuzzy steel. When you look straight down on the edge you should have a solid reflection from heel to toe. Then strop on linen and re-set the bevel on the finish stone. It should only take 15-20 laps.

2. If that does not hold an edge increase the bevel angle, I too would advise 2 layer of electrical tape. if the bevel is fully set, you can cut a new bevel quickly.

3. A micro bevel. Joint the edge. Strop on linen to remove any ragged flashing and set a new bevel with one layer of tape.

Strop on linen, add a second layer or third with Kapton and make a micro bevel on the finish stone, 3-10 laps. The micro bevel will have the same angle as a 2- layer tape bevel, but with a bit more meat behind the edge. As few laps as you can get away with.

Back in the day where there were a handful of semi-custom chippy razors on the market a micro bevel was the surefire fix for chippy edges on hard steel.

Once the bevels are flat and in the correct plane. It is easy and quick to experiment with bevel angle changes on the finish stone.

Jointing will improve any edge. I joint before the final stone, and once I have a good final edge, I joint, strop on linen and re set the edge on a clean stone or mist slurry Jnat, in 10-15 super lite laps.

Micro bevels are an easy go to, and sometimes as said, you just need more tape to increase the bevel angle.

The only other thing that I automatically do so I don’t even count it, is strop on linen between stones for a cleaner edge.
 
Gentlemen, I have a razor that’s so far beaten me, but I am making progress and believe that I will get an edge in the next outing or two (I’m an optomist). It’s reminding me of Glen Mercurio’s saying that ‘Honing is easy, until it isn’t’. The razor is a Frederick Reynolds chopper, should be easy peasy but it’s been anything but easy. The problem is that when I go above a certain grit level, the edge breaks down. For instance, at 4k the edge is straight and even and will mostly pass HHT after stropping, at 8k it isn’t straight and even and won’t pass HHT. You can see the little shiny liney along the edge with a 7x - 10x loupe at 8k that isn’t there at 4k.

Usually an old chopper I don’t measure the bevel angle, because most of them are too steep anyway. But since this one wasn’t holding an edge at higher grits, I measured it, 16.6 degrees which is fine if the steel is good but apparently it is not. So I put a layer of 1 mil Kapton on it which which gave me about 17.1 degrees, and back on the stones. This time I had a straight even edge at 8k, and hair parted when it touched the edge. That’s a fully set bevel at 8k. But the shiny line and poor HHT is back after the JNat finisher, even with good slurry which tends to wear micro fins and burrs off, and again, you can see it. It’s a beautiful shiny bevel, it just has futz at the apex and I know that it will not shave well.

But I’m one step further and in a day or three I’ll try a layer of Scotch and a layer of Kapton which will give me about 18 degrees and we’ll see what that does.

Advice is most welcome!

View attachment 1452649
Check your higher grit stones are absolutely flat and try using a lighter touch. It’s doesn’t take much pressure to roll and undo an SR edge in the final honing stages. Cheers.
 
Try a bottle of Scotch instead of a layer. That sometimes seems to work to fix it for me. 🤣 sorry couldn't resist.

Steve when setting the bevel did the steel feel different harder or softer? Just wondering if you need to cut deeper to get to good steel or if it is really just the overall steel make up. Do you have a Tam o shanter stone to try? Sometimes weird steel plays better with stones like that.
I see you are a man of culture as scotch helps my honing problems. Lots of true gentlemen around here. I found out @cotedupy was also a gentleman, scholar by a very precise and unique stone cutting method that I use as well from time to time.... throw the **** on the concrete and lap the edges. I don't always cut stone this way, but when I do I'm drinking a dos equis...

20220509_182354.jpg
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
I see you are a man of culture as scotch helps my honing problems. Lots of true gentlemen around here. I found out @cotedupy was also a gentleman, scholar by a very precise and unique stone cutting method that I use as well from time to time.... throw the **** on the concrete and lap the edges. I don't always cut stone this way, but when I do I'm drinking a dos equis...

View attachment 1453219

You know, you could smear some diamond paste on that can after you drank the beer, and make a concave bevel! Yuk, yuk.

Good Mexican beer is fine stuff indeed.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
Try a bottle of Scotch instead of a layer. That sometimes seems to work to fix it for me. 🤣 sorry couldn't resist.

Steve when setting the bevel did the steel feel different harder or softer? Just wondering if you need to cut deeper to get to good steel or if it is really just the overall steel make up. Do you have a Tam o shanter stone to try? Sometimes weird steel plays better with stones like that.

Hey Tom,

I thought that I wait to reply until after a shave. Looking at the 18 degree edge after one shave revealed an edge more ‘chewed up’ than I’d expect to see, and gaps in the apex up near the toe. A steeper angle might fix it but at this point it’s likely a scale donor. Maybe possible that someone buffed the temper out of it near the edge, but it didn’t look ‘buff’ if you know what I mean.
 
Maybe possible that someone buffed the temper out of it near the edge, but it didn’t look ‘buff’ if you know what I mean.
I'm leaning toward not, the one I have doesn't look buffed, at least not recently and it seems to have a similar disposition. I looked at it again since I shaved with it last and there appears to be some issues near the toe, although I think the kids made off with my higher powered loupe, so I'm basing this off of 10x magnification. I'm going to keep an eye on it. If I get bored I may try to hone/grind a little further up into the meat of the blade and see what happens.
 
Hey Tom,

I thought that I wait to reply until after a shave. Looking at the 18 degree edge after one shave revealed an edge more ‘chewed up’ than I’d expect to see, and gaps in the apex up near the toe. A steeper angle might fix it but at this point it’s likely a scale donor. Maybe possible that someone buffed the temper out of it near the edge, but it didn’t look ‘buff’ if you know what I mean.

Yeah at this point either use it for scales or eat into it deeper with a fresh start to see if it is just the metal at the current edge. I have had really old blades that where like this and just needed to get to good fresh steel. Sounds like this may just be not so good steel though.
 
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