Moving from 3M Super 88 tape to Kapton

[bernie01]

I have 3 straight razors, a Cadman Bengall (the first one) was sent to a honemeister here in Australia who honed it using 3M Super 88 electrical tape.
The other two I purchased on eBay or FB Marketplace and I set the bevel and honed them using Kapton tape.
I am very impressed with the longevity and low friction of the Kapton, and would like to touch up the Bengall using Kapton so I can use Kapton for all my razors and don't have to think 'what tape did I set the bevel on this one with'.

Will I have to go back to my Suehiro 1K to set the bevel again on the Bengall, or will perhaps touching it up on a Shapton 8K and Naniwa Super Stone 12K be suffice to alter the bevel? My stones are Suehiro 1K/3K, Shapton 8K, Naniwa 12K. I had the best shave of my very short straight shaving career today on my Blue Wonder finished with Kapton on the 12K.

 

[Kyle89]

How big is the difference in thickness? I mean, you may not have to go back to the 1k depending on how much time you have. I converted a taped edge to an edge not requiring tape on a 4k and it was fine.
Why not whip out the 8k, put some time in, and see where it takes ya? Or just go to the 1k if you feel like doing a whole progression.
Try stuff.

 

[JPO]

For me a 1k stone is more of a repair and bevel setting stone. The shapton 8k will probably get the bevel where you need it quite fast. There is no harm in going to a 3k. In theory you need to remove the same amount of material, but that might take a little more practice. It is usually nice to be able to get some "fresh" steel at the edge/apex, if there is such a thing

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

A lot will depend on the razors and your honing skill. Electrical tape alters the bevel about a degree, so Kapton is about half a degree.

You can, fully set a bevel on a 12k Super Stone, if you have honed a few razors. I usually touch up a razor by dropping down to an 8k, Snow White then going to a natural usually a Jnat.

So, it depends, but an 8k should easily reset the bevel. Glen, GS-sixgun had a video on removing a taped bevel, I think he use a 5k, in about 20-30 laps.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

One benefit of a coarser stone is it makes it pretty visually obvious when you've created a new bevel even with low magnification. I think an 8k will do the job no problem, but I usually do this kind of work on a 4k assuming there's no other heavy lifting needed. But I really like honing on my 4k. When I was using film I usually started on a 5 micron film to do a tape/no tape reset. It doesn't take long assuming the razor is in good shape to begin with. 20-30 laps sounds about right.

 

[Wid]

Going from tape to no tape is no big deal. So going from one brand of tape to another should be even leads of an issue. I’ve never paid attention to the brand I’ve used, grab some from work.

I did buy some super 88 so it the first name brand I’ve bought. Just used it yesterday, can’t say I noticed a difference.

 

[Wid]

Going from tape to no tape is no big deal. So going from one brand of tape to another should be even less of an issue. I’ve never paid attention to the brand I’ve used, grab some from work.

I did buy some super 88 so it’s the first name brand I’ve bought. Just used it yesterday, can’t say I noticed a difference.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

If you have shaved and stropped with this razor many times then is not going to be much work to go to the Kapton tape. I use both according to what is needed to get to the best bevel angle. But I also keep a spreadsheet to keep track of every razor. An 8k stone and a little effort will get you there. But a 4k will get you there quicker.
But as Marty said, even a 12K will do the job too with a little slurry to help in the beginning. A 12k is a very versatile stone after you learn to use it.

 

[C FrankC]

I have done this on many razors, and I agree that it can be done on a variety of stones at varying grits just a matter of time it takes. My usual stones for this work (if no edge damage) will be a Naniwa Pro 3K or a Shapton Glass 4k, both fast and aggressive enough to make short work of the job.

 

[bernie01]

Thanks to all for the advice!
I decided to mark the bevel with a Sharpie, then gave it half a dozen X strokes on the 3K and inspected the edge. To the naked eye, I could not see any black marker remaining on the apex, but with a 10x loupe I could see just the thinnest line of black. It seems that lowering the spine by using the the thinner tape had little effect, as advised. I then decided to go to the 8K first, then spent quite a bit of time refining the edge on the 12K until I got that hair popping ability. All good!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Try colored sharpie ink, it is easier to see even with the naked eye. Black can look like a shadow sometimes. I like Red or Blue.

 

[Bowmaker]

If you ever hone on oil electrical tape has a way of making a mess on the stone and razor. Kapton tape not so much.

 

[Gamma]

I usually have several rolls of Kapton here, I use it pretty often for electronics prototypes, experiments, etc. Been using it for a pretty long while. First tried it with honing 8 or so years ago. Wasn't a fan. I buy 3M Temflex 1700 in bulk so I usually use that when I hone with tape. I do have Super 88 and Super 33 but hardly ever use them.

I've found Kapton's wear resistance on low grit stones to be terrible, requires way too many changes during extensive bevel set and even through to 5k it's a pita in that sense. Plus, it embeds particulate into stones pretty easily. Lapping can get it out but sometimes it's pretty stubborn. The cheaper generic stuff is the worst in this regard, 3M is better, the expensive stuff coated with teflon is better yet but the ROI isn't there for me.

The dimensional difference between Kapton and most electrical tapes is a point of discussion, but in practical application that difference doesn't yield enough of a bevel angle change for me. Some Kapton is pretty thick actually, there's a ton of different types out there. Kapton 5413 (what I have out right now), sorta average stuff, comes in at close to 3 mil actual and 1700 is about 6 mil when in-use. If I have a blade that is 21.75 mm wide, with a spine that is 7.48 mm wide, I have a 19.8° bevel without tape. With 1 layer of Kapton it's 20.2° and with 1 layer of 1700 it's 20.6°.

Maybe if I had a blade that was so stout that he proverbial 'short hair' decrease in angle would matter, perhaps I might give Kapton a spin in that scenario but to be honest I'd probably just get rid of the blade or grind the spine down. I hate honing on tape so I tend to avoid it.

 

[alx gilmore]

Kapton is the 99% go-to tape that I use. For grinding on 1k or 2k bevel setting stones I use two layers, for final bevel and the actual honing of the edge I use one layer. Sure, it is not wear-proof, nothing is, but it is 10x's more wear resistant than 3M, and Kapton's thickness it is a good indicator of how how much spine wear/balance has actually occurred and precisely where is occurred because the tape is so thin. With thicker colored tape like 3M red/black/blue/yellow, if you are honing you can wear down a little bit too much portion of the blade without noticing it because of the monolithic color factor. Black worn through Black is still Black. For build-ups I use 3M with a layer of Kapton on top of that.
Can't hurt to try,
Hint, try Kapton between two layers of 3M for restoration work as a "marker" for distortion in the blades geometry.

happy honing,
Alx

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I have used the eBay Kapton for years without issue. Other brands may be “better, thicker, stronger”, but it is all tape… and will wear.

I use one layer of Kapton over a layer of electrical to extend tape life. Different brands of electrical tape will have different thickness as will different colors within the same line. Not enough to make a large difference. If you pay attention to your honing, you can feel when you burn through the Kapton, and it takes a few seconds to change tape without having to replace the electrical.

I always start finish honing with a new layer of Kapton to get maximum/uniform tape thickness.

Kapton is very thin and will stick to itself easily and a pain to use, (get off the roll and cut to length. But a $1 store tape dispenser makes it easy to dispense and measure to length.

BTW inexpensive tape dispensers work for masking tape, which I use a lot for other projects. Larger dispensers with split rollers, can hold 2 different tapes for conserving bench space.