Move over metrosexual's, The rise of the Lumbersexuals are upon us

[Seraphim]

That doesn't answer why you care so much.

We are both members of a men's grooming forum. It would be disingenuous to say that you or I don't care about looks, grooming, and style.

I'm NOT going to tell someone what to wear, think, or say. But if someone chooses to go out in an outlandish getup, I certainly feel it is within my non "politically correct" rights to be amused by their choices. I also feel OK about expressing my opinions with others, who may, or may not agree with me.


BTW, I have never used a chainsaw.

But I do have a beard.

For now.

 

[dws]

We are both members of a men's grooming forum. It would be disingenuous to say that you or I don't care about looks, grooming, and style.

I'm NOT going to tell someone what to wear, think, or say. But if someone chooses to go out in an outlandish getup, I certainly feel it is within my non "politically correct" rights to be amused by their choices. I also feel OK about expressing my opinions with others, who may, or may not agree with me.


BTW, I have never used a chainsaw.

But I do have a beard.

For now.

I was just curios. I do care about my own personal grooming and my appearance. Absolutely I do. I adhere to my own sense of style, though I respect that there are many to choose from. I'm not looking to come to the defence of these great bearded woodsmen of the city. I just think they want an awesome beard maybe?

 

[Seraphim]

Yup

 

[Go West Young Man]

People have the right to express their own style as they so choose.


Other people have a right to their own opinion about said style.

I'm with you up to here..... the problem is when the B+B pile-on starts and rather than critique someone's fashion choices we start criticizing the person.... hating the player not just the game.

 

[Seraphim]

If I said "That guy is a fool for dressing like that." You would be correct.

If I said "That guy looks foolish dressed like that." I would not be critiquing the man, just my opinion of how the style lessens that man.

 

[BadDad]

All justifications aside, its rude to speak so negatively about the style choices of others.

Id be fairly willing to bet that your comments would not be so forthcoming nor bold in the actual presence of those men, or others that choose to wear fashions that you find silly.

Thats not to "call you out" or imply that you are "chicken", its juat to say that I presume you are more polite than that in physical company.

With that assumption in mind, its not hard to understand why some of would rather keep these types of discussions on the level of civility that complies with face to face interaction.

Or to put it in other words...dont be rude. Thats all.

Yes, it is your right to say whatever you want about their style. But having that right, and being in the right are not the same thing....

 

[Seraphim]

For the sake of discussion, not argument. I don't believe I have posted any comments that are rude, did I?

I posted a pic of Hipsterdom, and am certainly bemused by the style choice. And I believe that is the intent of the "look" is it not? The ironic, cultivated look is intended to be non-conformist. I didn't post: "What's up with these hipster jerks? What a bunch of losers!"

No, I wouldn't walk up to a stranger and tell him how his ironic horn rimmed glasses make him look perhaps not at the top of his game. But if he were to ask my opinion; "Hey, how do you like these glasses?" I would be fine with giving him my honest opinion on the matter.

Again, in my opinion, if someone doesn't feel comfortable in themselves in the style choices they have made, and care more about what I think of those choices above what they themselves think. Then the problem is theirs, not mine. If they want to judge me as "boring" or whatever for my gutless decision to wear a collared, button down shirt with chinos, I could care less. I'm not going to wag my finger at them for judging me. Go right ahead.

Differences of opinion are not a bad thing. But it seems that in the modern age, with so much emphasis on allowing, and embracing "individuality", except perhaps allowing for individuality of opinion and point of view.

 

[Judah_Iam]

I agree Seraphim , in todays weirdness , many are so insecure with themselves they imitate who , or the group they think are hip or cool . I did it when I was in my late teens and early 20s (20) , but then I figured out I was me , not them . They thought that copying the popular culture icons (music and actors , etc.) was cool . At one point I came close to getting my ear pieced (BOY ! I'm glad I didn't !) , and getting a tattoo , but again , I thought better of it . Glad I did , so many think it keeps them cool and hip , good for them , but I have another opinion , and will speak it if it comes up . Otherwise I treat them like anyone else , it's just my opinion .

We all make choices in life , some want to be like others . Some are secure with who they are , what they like , and aren't influenced by popular culture . I think it comes with growing up , and discovering "Who cares ?" I had friends that were bikers , great guys . One guy offered to build me a bike , paint it , everything , so I could ride with them . But it wasn't my idea of fun , so I passed . I thanked him , and still think a lot of him , Great guy ! ... but I know guys that are dead because of the choices they made . If you know what I mean ... . I rode and broke horses in my younger years , and a few buddies were into the Rodeo , and one made it big and got to the National Finals in Vegas Bull Riding . He tried to get me into bull riding , but I passed . Didn't want to ride anything that would try to kill me , if and when I got dumped . He's crippled , now . And has a little brain damage . ... he chose that route , but I didn't .

I may not be cool to a certain crowd and that's fine with me , but I still look at them as human , even if I shake my head looking at them and the choices they've made . Everyone has an opinion , and the right to express it . If it offends someone to hear it , they can move on . I've been offended many times by things others have said or done that I didn't like , and thought was dumb , or plain WRONG . And I expressed my opinion . Like it or not , it was their choice , but I was a gentleman about it , unless they were hurting another verbally , or physically , then I wasn't as gentlemanly , I kindly asked them to stop what they were doing , or reminded them others didn't want to hear that , women , and/or children ... . If they continued then I had an obligation to those that couldn't take care of it , to do so as nicely as I could . ... this may shock some , but not everyone thinks the junk that is called normal today , is normal . And it's not only my opinion , but the opinion of someone that REALLY Matters .

​My free speech and opinion are mine , not one else's , ... it's strange how some think they can express whatever goofy thing they espouse , but others don't have the same right . ... if you don't like it , don't read it , or listen . We're men here , not children . Gentleman can disagree , that's natural . But if someone doesn't like someone thinking something is goofy , they need to not look . Like if you don't care for foul language , don't go where the unintelligent are . Every person has an opinion , and as individuals they have the right to express it as long as it's not harming another . ... they do a lot of harming others under the guise of free speech , trash TV , movies , and now laws that make "special exemptions" to the "pop culture and government" endorsing such behavior , but I don't have to like it or go along with it . Common decency is getting less common these days .

Please don't take anything personally . It's a general opinion of those that agree with it . If you don't , that's your right , but stopping another from expressing their opinion isn't . What's weird to me maybe cool to you , and vice versa , personally I don't care . I'm a big boy , I won't cry if you don't like what I do . That's what makes us individuals , ... we're different .

For the sake of discussion, not argument. I don't believe I have posted any comments that are rude, did I?

I posted a pic of Hipsterdom, and am certainly bemused by the style choice. And I believe that is the intent of the "look" is it not? The ironic, cultivated look is intended to be non-conformist. I didn't post: "What's up with these hipster jerks? What a bunch of losers!"

No, I wouldn't walk up to a stranger and tell him how his ironic horn rimmed glasses make him look perhaps not at the top of his game. But if he were to ask my opinion; "Hey, how do you like these glasses?" I would be fine with giving him my honest opinion on the matter.

Again, in my opinion, if someone doesn't feel comfortable in themselves in the style choices they have made, and care more about what I think of those choices above what they themselves think. Then the problem is theirs, not mine. If they want to judge me as "boring" or whatever for my gutless decision to wear a collared, button down shirt with chinos, I could care less. I'm not going to wag my finger at them for judging me. Go right ahead.

Differences of opinion are not a bad thing. But it seems that in the modern age, with so much emphasis on allowing, and embracing "individuality", except perhaps allowing for individuality of opinion and point of view.

 

[Judah_Iam]

​Cool ...

 

[Lmarkow]

The look, in total, is not for me. But I think that's because it seems like an exaggeration, of sorts. But I suspect elements of the look will be filtered through some sort of conformists' tool, resulting in something I might be able to enjoy. I'm guessing I'll start with the flannel shirts, as they'll look real nice under my Filson vests.

 

[Go West Young Man]

Seraphim,- you're not the problem, your posts are pretty reasonable and thought out and I agree with your position most of the time. ..... But there are many here well DO criticize the person and not just the clothes.

 

[BadDad]

I don't understand why the assumption is that there must be some lack of self-esteem or ultimate goal of conformity if someone doesn't appreciate being insulted...

There is an underlying insult to the idea that these men must be insecure, or else criticisms would be welcome. That's ridiculous, in my opinion. I am as secure as they come...maybe even cocky and a little arrogant. But if a random stranger starts tossing half-disguised insults about my style choices, it's going to put me in a bad mood. That's just human nature.

[MENTION=6128]Seraphim[/MENTION], your statements are certainly not the worst of the bunch. I think you just got caught up in defending your position...

I, personally, have always treated the internet like a coffee shop. If I would not say something to your face sitting next to you at the counter, I don't say it on a forum. Whether or not I personally think my comments are "rude" is inconsequential. I presume you are too polite to sit there and say, "Hey, your outfit is silly, in my opinion, and I can't imagine the thought process that would allow you to choose those clothes. Can you even swing an ax?" If you think that is the subject of a "polite conversation", you're likely to find many people that disagree with you.

If you take that further, and call the guy insecure WHEN he takes offense to your input, it's just adding fuel to the fire.

At the end of the day, there is a difference between saying, "Not my style, but whatever" and "It's silly, they look foolish, and if they can't take my unwarranted criticism, it's because they are insecure and need to man up". One of these is a personal opinion. The other is an implied insult.

Maybe it's just me, but I try to not be insulting to people I've never met and whom have never given me a reason to insult them...

 

[Seraphim]

At a coffee shop, I have certainly commented to whom ever is with me my thoughts about other people in the shop. It's called "people watching". "Check out that guy's bell bottoms, and furry vest, whoah!"And if I, myself chose to wear an unusual outfit to that coffee shop, I would realize that I was inviting other people's attention to myself and let the chips fall where they may.What I am defending is not my right to insult others, but my right to express my opinions freely. If, say, a male former world champion Olympian chooses to have a set of boobs installed and walk around wearing a dress. Well, that person is certainly entirely within their right to do so, and more power to them for following their desires. But, I feel that it is within my right to think that a very odd stylistic choice and to be able to say so. The person I say it to may counter with their different viewpoint, or perhaps agree with my opinion as well. I'm not telling the guy with the newly installed boobs that he should have them removed or that they never should have done it in the first place. That's their decision and their life. It's the modern idea that people are supposed to censor their own thoughts and opinions, or that I am supposed to accept the guy with installed boobs in a dress as being totally normal as the opinion that I am supposed to have, that I find rather rude and constraining.

 

[snowman]

Dress in a costume. Feel judged by others. Complain about feeling judged.

 

[BadDad]

But...and here is the kicker...would you say to the guy wearing bell bottoms "Hey, I think your pants are silly, and you look silly for wearing them"?

That's the difference. Sure, you might snicker into your fist and quietly comment to your friends while the individual you're insulting is out of earshot, but would you say it to the person you are insulting?

There is a very important distinction to be made here. Talking smack behind someone's back is cowardly. It is your right, certainly, but it is still cowardly.

Talking smack about a man that chooses to live life like a woman, but not having the gonads to say it to their face is cowardly.

Talking smack about a man's choice of style, but not saying it directly to that person is cowardly.

Insulting someone and giggling with your friends like a bunch of schoolyard bullies (or gossiping girls) is cowardly.

If you want to be a man, and fight for your right to have and speak an insulting opinion, then be a man, and speak said insulting opinion to that individual, face to face...not sitting in a corner snickering with your friends quietly or hiding behind an internet persona....

With that said...you do have every right to be a coward and insult people behind their backs without any fear of repercussions. I think that concept is a VASTLY larger problem in society than being polite is, but still it is your right...

Suffice it to say that if this is how you treat complete strangers as they are out in the real world, I will be very happy to keep our interactions limited to the internet. See, I don't play those games. If you and I were sitting together in a coffee shop and you started insulting people you didn't know while snickering into your fist, I would tell you that it is cowardly, and unappreciated, and I would leave you sitting there by yourself. That is my right.

And that has nothing to do with me being insecure. Quite the opposite, in fact...

 

[BadDad]

Dress in a costume. Feel judged by others. Complain about feeling judged.

Or...choose your clothing, get ridiculed by complete strangers in a cowardly manner, and get pissed about said ridicule.

Ridicule me face to face, and we are going to have a bad day. Hide behind a fake persona or in the corner with your friends, and hope it stays behind my back...where cowards belong...

It's all a matter of perspective...

 

[Lmarkow]

There is no cause for name calling here. Stop it, please.

 

[Seraphim]

OK, Chris, I certainly hear where you're coming from.

But, since it appears that you and I either are not understanding each other, or have different views on the matter, why doesn't your previously stated option "Not my style, but whatever" and letting it be, apply to my choice of opinions? It would seem instead that you are saying that you think your way of dealing with things is how I should deal with things?

It sounds like you may have labeled me as "cowardly" and "gossiping girl". And Im not offended by that, as I can understand the conviction with which you are trying to make your point. But isn't that type of attitude every bit as devicive as calling someone out for wearing skinny jeans or whatever?

Im simply debating the point here, no hard feelings on my side.

 

[luvmysuper]

I find it ironic that someone who screams for gentlemanly behavior would surreptitiously call people cowards for expressing an opinion.
If you are not able to express said opinion that OTHERS ought to act like gentlemen without calling names, then just stop posting in this thread.

For the record, if done without name calling, expressing ones dislike or opinion of a given style here at B&B is absolutely no different than sitting with friends in a coffee shop and people watching, and commenting on those persons style, and people are welcome to do so here.

The notion that unless you are saying something nurturing and supportive that you shouldn't say anything at all is ridiculous and has no place here.
The notion that you not liking someones style gives you the right to name call doesn't belong here.
The notion that you not liking someone expressing an opinion different from yours gives you the right to name call or tell them to stop voicing their opinion doesn't belong here either.

 

[BadDad]

You're about my use of the word coward. I apologize for that. I have reasons for feeling strongly on this subject, and I apologize for letting that get in the way of reasonable discourse.