More and more aggressive...

[Ron R]

SE SOTD, Saturday, November 5th 2022

Razor : Yaqi knights Helmet with a modified Micromatic handle, Mfg 2019> aggressive range, this razor is for those fellows who like blade feel or a challenge & it will not disappoint them. I like to use a steep approach(riding the bar) & defiantly a short handle to work the lower neck near collar bone area. It will give a close shave with a light touch and it takes a mature technique to enjoy a irritation free & weeper free shave IMO. No Plunking of razor at start of a stroke of your razor or it will bite.
This must be Yaqi's most aggressive razor they offer even slightly more aggressive then the Yaqi slant razor IMO. I had a nice challenging error free & enjoyable shave this morning with stellar results.
Blade : Personna red (1) sharp & smooth with great longevity. Top 5 tier blade for myself.
Soap : Razorock Lavender this soap has been discontinued and it is one of my best soaps for lavender scent and full protection and they had a hard time selling it does not make sense but that is the nature of soaps to us for appeal. Italian barber(Razorock) should bring it back in a limited edition if possible so we can least load up. I'm on my 3rd tub and loving it, It is one of those soaps that does not grab you at first but over a few shaves it will astonish a person in masculine fragrance of lavender and lather qualities is outstanding.
Brush : Yaqi "purple haze" 24mm mew knot synthetic, excellent lather generator, cloud like soft tips, nice splay scrubber + excellent lather painter.
Pre shave : (Dedicated Cashmere synthetic)Brush wash whole face with CeraVe hand bar cleanser with a dollop of clear Aloe Vera on the cleaned beard area.
Prep : Cold water rinse after each pass of 2 + pickups. WTG + ATG + pickups.
Post shave : Ach Brito Lavanda with witch hazel + a dollop of CeraVe moisturizing lotion(scentless).
Results :10/10 or CCS,DFS,BBS + no irritation + no weepers= Excellent shave with my Yaqi knights helmet + drama free with a Personna red.

Have some great shaves!

 

[kingfisher]

That Knight Helmet is probably the most aggressive razor of them all!

 

[ShavingPrimate]

I think it depends on one's whiskers. My beard is medium-light or light-medium and I've never needed much razor to get me to BBS. Recently bought an R41 and I've only shaved with it once but I have to pay more attention to it than, say, my AS-D2.

I don't think it is a big stretch to pay a bit of attention for 10-minutes, while actually actually performing the shave.

I don't consider the R41 to be aggressive as much as I consider it to be efficient. Which I tend to believe is what the designer's had in mind.

That's what I like about the R41: I lay the razor on my face, use short strokes with zero pressure, and my stubble disappears almost like magic. The R41 works the way I imagined a DE razor was supposed to work

I agree. I don't attribute this to many years of refining my style (I don't have any style). But by laying this razor on your face, you feel the blade and as you shave, you get the feedback necessary to control your shave.

With milder razors, you feel less of the blade and more of the safety bar. The safety bar does not shave you!

Just finished a close, smooth shave with the R41 and a Gillette Wilkie from India that was shave #7 on that blade.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

Of course anyone can use whatever they like, but I don't understand why it seems to have become accepted that using increasingly aggressive razors is some sort of inevitable progression and a sign of improved technique or more advanced shaving, whatever that is. I doubt that men used to do that in such numbers, or felt the need so to do. It makes me wonder how generations of men before us managed to get a close shave with a Tech. Perhaps they had better technique, or worse technique, or even tougher beards, or even more sensitive skin, or perhaps it's a load of old nonsense

 

[4everPup]

I am also newish to wet shaving only 2-3 months in and noticing something similar but to lesser degree. My journey starts with a polished Rockwell 6s and my first few shaves was on plate 2. I only shave 2-3 times a week. Plate 2 was great so I moved up to plate 3 after a few shaves and then tried plate 4. The 3&4 plate was not bad - worked good enough but I got very few weepers.
I then bought a Razorock Mamba .70 from a member here thinking I may prefer a mild razor. After a few shaves, I learned the Mamba required a little more of a shallow angle and was just ok. It shaved well enough but I went back to the 6s. I started on plate 2 again then moved to 3. Now I liked 3. Then moved to 4 and liked it more. Tried plate 5 once and was super careful thinking it may bite - zero drama. Then moved to plate 6 and I had to check in the middle of the shave and at the end of the shave to confirm I was indeed on plate 6 as it felt way too comfy. Now I can use plate 6 with just 2 passes and minor touch, up instead of my usual 3 passes and touch up, to achieve BBS. While I know the 6s is not in the same category as some of these more aggressive razors mentioned in this thread, as a newbie, I feel like I accomplished something special moving to plate 6 and may want to try another razor with similar aggressiveness - Razorock Game Changer .84 probably.

 

[Rob72]

Of course anyone can use whatever they like, but I don't understand why it seems to have become accepted that using increasingly aggressive razors is some sort of inevitable progression and a sign of improved technique or more advanced shaving, whatever that is. I doubt that men used to do that in such numbers, or felt the need so to do. It makes me wonder how generations of men before us managed to get a close shave with a Tech. Perhaps they had better technique, or worse technique, or even tougher beards, or even more sensitive skin, or perhaps it's a load of old nonsense

Socio-cultural changes. Prior to the safety razor, straights were the go-to. The industrial revolution led to a growing middle class, and an extremely wealthy upper class, and travel and convenience became expectations. Enter the wedge-blades. Compact holders for small sections of straight razor blades. Far more compact, less prone to damage, and easier to maintain on your own. If you did damage a blade, you would buy a new one, probably not at a great savings over a straight, but you're paying for convenience. Things like Rolls pop up, a wedge blade that is completely user-maintainable and can be mass produced at reasonable cost.

Followed by the first safety razors, the big players being Autostrop and Gillette. Blades are now disposable and producable in a quantity that can pay for the razor (blade carrier) in fairly short order. In turn, this brings out the concept of new/different handles, cases, designs, blade-preserving technology, shave lubricity, etc., etc., as identity items, showing the purchasers' modernity, technological taste, etc..

WWI. Yes, there were wars before, but nothing on this scale, and unit barbers were an unnecessary expense when the barber could be given a rifle or man a gun instead, and soldiers could be issued safety razors to tend to their own hygiene. Bear in mind, prior to the use of chemical weapons and the use of gas masks, it was not at all uncommon for enlisted men to sport beards. Officers would not, as they shaved to demonstrate maintenance of civilization in barbaric circumstances.

WWI. Expanding on the practices and precepts of WWI. MASSIVE industrialization and production beyond anything seen before. On returning home, men, as a group, were tired with the demands of rigid structures. Two basic responses: grow a beard and go live in a rural area, or, shave daily and take part in industrial "modern" civil society. Shaving was to become a comfort, not a duty.


Soooo. Those seeking after "aggressive" razors like a challenge. It takes skill to perfect the use, and discipline to use them daily. All individuals vary somewhat, but I would submit that there is some element of this in most of us.

 

[Jack Goossen]

I've been wet shaving with double edge razors for over four years now. Over time, I've come to appreciate razors that I wouldn't have even considered using when I first started shaving. Currently, my favorite razor is a stainless steel Muhle R41. It's considered by many B&B members to be a fairly aggressive razor...not to be taken lightly. I suppose that it would be natural to shave with razors that are increasingly aggressive. However, I still find it a bit of a mystery as to why and how this happened. Is it really just a matter of increased skill/better technique? Or is it more than that? I'm about to order another Wolfman WR1 head. At first I wanted to get the same gap as the one I had, but in an OC configuration. But after some serious thought, I realized that would be a terrible mistake. I'm increasing the gap on this next razor and going OC. It's time to take another step up in aggressiveness. When I first got my WR1 .74 SB, I was upset because I considered it to be too aggressive. However, I continued to shave with it and now it seems easy to use. What happened?

You want the best shave. You want to master the most challenging razors. Better and better and better. Try the Yaqi Agamemnon.

 

[NorthernSoul]

You've got the touch. Or should I say developed the touch.

I've noticed it can work in the other direction. I shave daily with razors that are commonly considered mild plus very sharp blades. Yet, I get quite close shaves with no irritation. The difference is maybe I get a shadow a few hours earlier using milder razors. Shaving daily, it's no problem.

I can use the R41 if desired and would probably go every other day with it. I would not consider it a rite of passage or anything, though. It's just another choice.

 

[Dapper Gent]

Of course anyone can use whatever they like, but I don't understand why it seems to have become accepted that using increasingly aggressive razors is some sort of inevitable progression and a sign of improved technique or more advanced shaving, whatever that is. I doubt that men used to do that in such numbers, or felt the need so to do. It makes me wonder how generations of men before us managed to get a close shave with a Tech. Perhaps they had better technique, or worse technique, or even tougher beards, or even more sensitive skin, or perhaps it's a load of old nonsense

Ditto

 

[Medivh]

Of course anyone can use whatever they like, but I don't understand why it seems to have become accepted that using increasingly aggressive razors is some sort of inevitable progression and a sign of improved technique or more advanced shaving, whatever that is. I doubt that men used to do that in such numbers, or felt the need so to do. It makes me wonder how generations of men before us managed to get a close shave with a Tech. Perhaps they had better technique, or worse technique, or even tougher beards, or even more sensitive skin, or perhaps it's a load of old nonsense

Comparing how things were before and now is like comparing apples to oranges. Many have already pointed out that back then the 2-3 or more pass shaves didn't even existed along with words like artisan (for any shaving product) and BBS (DFS. CCS etc.) . I'm not old enough to speak from experience of how people shaved 40 + years ago with DE razors, but I really doubt that they were chasing the super perfect shave and neither was I when I was shaving with a cartridge razor ever since I started shaving until 2016 when I switched to DE razors.

The reason why I don't like Techs (in general) is not because I can't shave with them, but the shave takes longer, it's not enjoyable and in some areas like my chin and neck I have to try a bit more to achieve a very close shave.

 

[ShavingPrimate]

but I don't understand why it seems to have become accepted that using increasingly aggressive razors is some sort of inevitable progression and a sign of improved technique or more advanced shaving, whatever that is. I doubt that men used to do that in such numbers, or felt the need so to do.

I think it follows along the same lines as people jumping on the "I use Feather blades" bandwagon.

My facial hair is not all that challenging. I can easily shave with any of the couple dozen of blades that I purchase in quantity, which does include Feather.

Not that there is anything in particular wrong with Feather, I think that it is driven more by the hype, like aggressive razors, then most shavers actual requirements for an ultra sharp blade.

I do think that what most shavers seek, is a more efficient shave, that is both close and smooth.

While we read the stories about uber aggressive DE razors, I doubt if they constitute more than a percent or so of all DE shavers.

Which is why, as far as actual sales go, most DE shavers opt for products such as the 34c and R89/DE89 type razors.

They want to get away from cartridges and they want a smooth comfortable shave.

Some of us want to take it a step further and get still a closer shave and a more comfortable shave at the same time.

I see that many members here, opt for milder razors that yield a more comfortable shave.

While I do plan on picking up a few more razors in 2023, I find that the R41 head, that cost me all of $25, provides me with the closest, most comfortable shave, out of any of my current DE razors.

I view it as a shame, that so much hype has been associated with the aggressiveness of this razor. That tends to discourage others from trying it out. I see the R41 not as extra aggressive, but as a more efficient and better design.

 

[Dave himself]

I used half DE blade shavettes when I started wet shaving then Safety Razors grabbed my attention. I didn't know if I'd prefer mild or more efficient razors so I decided to get a Merkur progress so that I could adjust the settings. I found out that anything below setting 3 or 4 just didn't give me the shave I was looking for. I had to go over some spots to many times to get rid of my whiskers which gave me irritation especially down the sides of my mouth.

I learned that by dialing the razor and upping the efficiency ment less passes and no irritation.

I now have a small collection of what most people class as efficient/aggressive razors that work really well for me.Now when I use my Progress I never shave below setting 4. This just what works for me.

 

[Dapper Gent]

Comparing how things were before and now is like comparing apples to oranges. Many have already pointed out that back then the 2-3 or more pass shaves didn't even existed along with words like artisan (for any shaving product) and BBS (DFS. CCS etc.) . I'm not old enough to speak from experience of how people shaved 40 + years ago with DE razors, but I really doubt that they were chasing the super perfect shave and neither was I when I was shaving with a cartridge razor ever since I started shaving until 2016 when I switched to DE razors.

The reason why I don't like Techs (in general) is not because I can't shave with them, but the shave takes longer, it's not enjoyable and in some areas like my chin and neck I have to try a bit more to achieve a very close shave.

Going to respectively disagree with you here. Wet shaving was and is wet shaving. Straight, DE, what ever. There are more products available to us now, some are better, some are not, that's a matter of personal opinion. As far as terminology....what is now referred to as BBS, I use to rub my hands across my face and think to myself, "yup that's good", never thought of "YTG" but it was the same thing. It was still just as good of a shave as I get now. And, 2-3 pass shaves certainly did exist back then. I'm certain that there are many here at B&B from my era who would agree from their personal experience.
When I first started shaving, I believe it was 1972ish. I learned from my dad who handed down to me his Gillette silver tip and some made in England Wilkinson Swords, a can of Noxzema Medicated and his decades of knowledge of wet shaving. It included 2 and 3 passes. With the grain, across and then touch up if not "YTG or BBS" (same thing, different era). He said it was because "that's how it's done to get a nice close shave like you get from the barber". So, yes, men were also looking for a perfect shave back then as well, myself included.
Anyway, I respectively say that IMHO, even though there are more products to compare, it's apples to apples.

 

[Alum Ladd]

I used half DE blade shavettes when I started wet shaving then Safety Razors grabbed my attention. I didn't know if I'd prefer mild or more efficient razors so I decided to get a Merkur progress so that I could adjust the settings. I found out that anything below setting 3 or 4 just didn't give me the shave I was looking for. I had to go over some spots to many times to get rid of my whiskers which gave me irritation especially down the sides of my mouth.

I learned that by dialing the razor and upping the efficiency ment less passes and no irritation.

I now have a small collection of what most people class as efficient/aggressive razors that work really well for me.Now when I use my Progress I never shave below setting 4. This just what works for me.

Wait till you get your 'new' OC Old and New razors Dave, you will be very pleasantly surprised by how efficient yet mild they are. The Old is a little less mild. They give excellent shaves and will give you a new window on razor types if you have not tried that kind of design.

 

[Eric_75]

I can use the R41 if desired and would probably go every other day with it. I would not consider it a rite of passage or anything, though. It's just another choice.

You've used the R41 with the Heritage handle, right? I think I've seen that combo in some of your posts.

 

[Dave himself]

Wait till you get your 'new' OC Old and New razors Dave, you will be very pleasantly surprised by how efficient yet mild they are. The Old is a little less mild. They give excellent shaves and will give you a new window on razor types if you have not tried that kind of design.

Mate if Royal Mail doesn't stop all these strikes and delaying the razors getting here. I'm putting on a pair of speedos and coming to get them myself .

 

[Medivh]

Going to respectively disagree with you here. Wet shaving was and is wet shaving. Straight, DE, what ever. There are more products available to us now, some are better, some are not, that's a matter of personal opinion. As far as terminology....what is now referred to as BBS, I use to rub my hands across my face and think to myself, "yup that's good", never thought of "YTG" but it was the same thing. It was still just as good of a shave as I get now. And, 2-3 pass shaves certainly did exist back then. I'm certain that there are many here at B&B from my era who would agree from their personal experience.
When I first started shaving, I believe it was 1972ish. I learned from my dad who handed down to me his Gillette silver tip and some made in England Wilkinson Swords, a can of Noxzema Medicated and his decades of knowledge of wet shaving. It included 2 and 3 passes. With the grain, across and then touch up if not "YTG or BBS" (same thing, different era). He said it was because "that's how it's done to get a nice close shave like you get from the barber". So, yes, men were also looking for a perfect shave back then as well, myself included.
Anyway, I respectively say that IMHO, even though there are more products to compare, it's apples to apples.

Are you implying that is my techniques fault for not getting a great and very close shave from the Tech razors? That's a bold assumption. I thought that people know better than simply using the already debunked ''argument'' that if you can't get the best shave possible, then it's always your fault and not the razor. We all have different faces, skins, whiskers as well as having different shaving style like 2-3-4 etc. pass shaves and whatever someone is chasing a BBS or not. I'm by no means a shaving professional who claims to know everything about shaving, but at least I try not to tell others that it's their fault because a razor or whatever doesn't work for them.

Tech are mild and inefficient and that's a fact and just because some folks can achieve ''perfect'' shaves with them that doesn't mean that we all can or should. Techs are good for beginners and I started shaving with a 70's Tech and I've used for at least 6 months, but after I've tried some other razors like the Slim Adjustable, I've stopped using it.

 

[NorthernSoul]

You've used the R41 with the Heritage handle, right? I think I've seen that combo in some of your posts.

Yep, that is a good combo. I think my favorite R41 combo is with the Maggard MR11 stainless handle. There is just something right about it.

 

[Guido75]

I tried the Flatboy and my issue is that it "frowns" the blade when you tighten the handle. It's extremely finicky to get the blade straight before being able to shave with it. It does work well when I take the time to tighten the handle "just so," but I don't often have that kind of time

Sorry to hear that. I have successfully used a washer to assist the handle in clamping down but not too much. And I load it with the head on a towel to avoid the finicky stuff.

It provides a great shave (for me).

Guido

 

[Guido75]

I think you really progressed Jack and became better and better with your technique.

I definitely have more aggressive razors than I did in the beginning (although my second razor was a Fatip Piccolo). The R41 is one of my top razors in that respect and it shaves like almost no other razor in my collection - WTG and a Feather is almost marble already. Interestingly enough my top razor is a safety bar razor (well, scalloped like the R41) - it shaves superclose yet comfortable and smooth.

And in this little hobby of ours new gear is always nice to try. Even if you don’t like the new Wolfman, which I am sure you will however, I think it would be easy to pass on through BST.

Cheers,

Guido