Mitchells Wool Fat Shaving Soap is no longer Tallow based

[Lane101]

As a devoted 3017 soap user, I did something I haven't done in years for the sake of MWF science....opened and lathered a puck I don't plan on using from start to finish immediately.

MWF batch 8923.

3 test lathers, applied to face (no shave), RR Beehive Synthetic, Semogue 830 Boar and Simpson M7 Manchurian. These are my go to brushes in each hair type, medium water hardness, face lather, normal load time.

Zero issues in latherability, face feel, scent, texture and creaminess.

I consider myself pretty good and working up a quality shave lather and feel all three I produced would have shaved perfectly fine.

Someone calling this a dud of dudsville or however it was described, either doesn't know what they are doing or the batch numbers mean nothing. It lathered up a storm of lather and I would have gladly shaved with any of the ones I produced.

I usually dial in the lather to perfection after 5-6 shaves, so expect it will improved once I start 3017'ing it and it will be even creamier with less volume. This won't happens for a while as I'm using a Tallow Tabac at the moment.

Tonight, I'll actually do a real shave with one of the brushes and report back again.

No staging.

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Glad to see this and your subsequent tests of this puck that show it to consistently work well. Just popped open one of the MWF pucks acquired last fall and it has the same batch number. Will look forward to using it when my current puck is 3017'd.

Curious, when did you purchase this puck? Sounds like you had it in reserve for years while my puck, with the same 8923 batch number, is a relatively recent purchase. Either batch numbers get reused or the pucks sit in inventory for a long time.

 

[GR5233]

I will definitely be thinking about buying some stuff from Kent given their response to the situation

 

[Lane101]

I couldn't agree more!

Mitchell's has taken a pretty good drubbing in this thread.. some deserved, and some undeserved.. particularly about the bowls.
The MWF bowls are ceramic, pottery if you will. These items get fired in a kiln, and often move a bit. Personally, I find the imperfectly fitting lid, and even the sometimes off centered logo to be part of the allure, charm if you will of the material. I have no idea of the size and sophistiucation of Mitchell's as a firm, but I cannot imagine there would be enough pieces needed of the bowls for them to be mass produced on a large scale. Could they be hand thrown? I don't know and will not suppose..
But, one cannot compare the high quality (IMHO) ceramic bowl of MWF to the glass bowl with a plastic lid of TABAC. And I am not demeaning the TABAC bowl in any way, I like it also, but it's a different animal.

For my part, I've used MWF for a long time and loved it. I will keep using what I have, and keep loving the old formula, however all of this shakes out!

They are a tiny firm with roughly a half-dozen employees per their corporate filings. Manufacturing of their products is most likely outsourced.

 

[Loner16]

This thread has been a bit of a revelation for me.. in more ways that one!

The TABAC bowl has been mentioned. I will not use the new TABAC formula, but I still have the bowl. I also have a brand new Kent puck, and I have an older wooden Kent bowl. For my good self, water and wood often do not play well together.. the wood starts to look a bit tattered. So, I said to myself, there's a nice glass bowl with no soap.. why not see how the smaller Kent puck fits, and to my delight, it fits perfectly.. better that the wooden bowl designed for it. An added benefit is that the glass bowl has features inside that stop the puck from spinning.. something that always annoys me. So, a little work with a razor blade to remove the TABAC lettering, and a new puck of Kent has a place to reside!

 

[PLANofMAN]

I couldn't agree more!

Mitchell's has taken a pretty good drubbing in this thread.. some deserved, and some undeserved.. particularly about the bowls.
The MWF bowls are ceramic, pottery if you will. These items get fired in a kiln, and often move a bit. Personally, I find the imperfectly fitting lid, and even the sometimes off centered logo to be part of the allure, charm if you will of the material. I have no idea of the size and sophistication of Mitchell's as a firm, but I cannot imagine there would be enough pieces needed of the bowls for them to be mass produced on a large scale. Could they be hand thrown? I don't know and will not suppose..
But, one cannot compare the high quality (IMHO) ceramic bowl of MWF to the glass bowl with a plastic lid of TABAC. And I am not demeaning the TABAC bowl in any way, I like it also, but it's a different animal.

For my part, I've used MWF for a long time and loved it. I will keep using what I have, and keep loving the old formula, however all of this shakes out!

I doubt the quality of the bowls has gone downhill at all. That's why I posted mine from 12 years ago that has the same 'faults' as modern production stuff. The logo being wildly off center annoyed me for the first couple years, then it stopped bugging me, and just became part of it's handmade charm.

They are a tiny firm with roughly a half-dozen employees per their corporate filings. Manufacturing of their products is most likely outsourced.

We all know that. The company that makes the shaving soap isn't able to get the tallow noodle formula MWF used anymore, or isn't willing to pay the extra cost to get it. The wording on the MWF stock email response to the new formula is a bit unclear on that point.

The company that makes the shower and bath bars is a different company, and is still able to get tallow.

The MWF company consists of a few employees to man the company store, some people that are probably in charge of shipping/receiving and taking orders, and Kim, the owner. I doubt any soap has been made at the Bradford location in over 50 years, if not longer.

 

[GR5233]

They are a tiny firm with roughly a half-dozen employees per their corporate filings. Manufacturing of their products is most likely outsourced.

Which is why I think it’s possible that it might not have been MWF’s choice to change from a tallow formula to a non tallow formula

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I couldn't agree more!

Mitchell's has taken a pretty good drubbing in this thread.. some deserved, and some undeserved.. particularly about the bowls.
The MWF bowls are ceramic, pottery if you will. These items get fired in a kiln, and often move a bit. Personally, I find the imperfectly fitting lid, and even the sometimes off centered logo to be part of the allure, charm if you will of the material. I have no idea of the size and sophistiucation of Mitchell's as a firm, but I cannot imagine there would be enough pieces needed of the bowls for them to be mass produced on a large scale. Could they be hand thrown? I don't know and will not suppose..
But, one cannot compare the high quality (IMHO) ceramic bowl of MWF to the glass bowl with a plastic lid of TABAC. And I am not demeaning the TABAC bowl in any way, I like it also, but it's a different animal.

For my part, I've used MWF for a long time and loved it. I will keep using what I have, and keep loving the old formula, however all of this shakes out!

I agree about the MWF ceramic bowl. It’s clearly designed to look old, with old-fashioned printing. It should be like something you’d find in a Victorian apothecary. If everything was precise and even, and the lid fit with 21st century manufacturing accuracy, it would rather undermine the feel of it, for me. I think it’s just fine the way it is.

That’s not to say it’s ok for them to reformulate Kent’s soap without telling Kent, and then try to say it wasn’t reformulated. That’s actually not ok, even in Victorian England.

 

[brucered]

Glad to see this and your subsequent tests of this puck that show it to consistently work well. Just popped open one of the MWF pucks acquired last fall and it has the same batch number. Will look forward to using it when my current puck is 3017'd.

Curious, when did you purchase this puck? Sounds like you had it in reserve for years while my puck, with the same 8923 batch number, is a relatively recent purchase. Either batch numbers get reused or the pucks sit in inventory for a long time.

I have 4 old and 4 recently purchased from IB. They were all mixed together, before I even heard of soap batch #s issues.

My guess is the 4 that are 8923 were purchased from iB in May of this year.

 

[Loner16]

My attitide is changing a bit as more comes to light. A very small Yorkshire firm with a dozen employees. Maybe not in the Yorkshire Dales of James Herriot fame, but Bradford is in a dale in Yorkshire. The more I read and learn, the less inclined I am to throw them under a bus!

 

[PLANofMAN]

My attitide is changing a bit as more comes to light. A very small Yorkshire firm with a dozen employees. Maybe not in the Yorkshire Dales of James Herriot fame, but Bradford is in a dale in Yorkshire. The more I read and learn, the less inclined I am to throw them under a bus!

If they had just said straight out, "we can't get the old formula anymore, this is the best we can do, and we hope people will be okay with that." We probably would have cut them more slack.

This is what we got:

‘The rumour is true, the base (soap noodles) used in the creation of the shaving soap will no longer contain tallow (made from Bovine and porcine bi-products), but that isn’t the wool fat element of the product, and absolutely will always contain Lanolin, the Wool Fat, which is intrinsic to the brand.
Our delivery of the new Ingredients is due into us this week, and so any further orders that you place with us from now will be the ingredients as attached which we will need to have new labels prepared for.
The quality and consistency remain at the forefront of all we do, and the change in base formulation, brought on in part by changes in the use of some common preservatives, will not detract from performance or the feel whilst maintaining a more consistent availability of supply and stability of the market.’

They basically told us the new formula was just as good as the old one because it contains lanolin, were somewhat ambiguous about the reasons for the reformulation, failed to notify Kent that they were reformulating the soap, and sent Kent 4,000 pucks of the new formula without changing the ingredient list labeling.

...and they still haven't updated their website to reflect the new product change.

 

[ChriWilson]

Where is 'here?' I ordered it off the Kent website, shipped to America. By your avatar, you also appear to be an American...
Expat?

I will definitely be thinking about buying some stuff from Kent given their response to the situation

Hope you signed up for the newsletter and used the 10% Discount Code.
Direct Order from Kent is the least expensive option BY FAR; shipped cost is roughly $9.5 per...

That was a reference to the market fragmentation we are seeing at the moment, which I mentioned in an earlier post. @PLANofMAN said that he thought that professional barbers might be a big enough market enough to support well known "national" products in their own countries (Italy-Proraso, Turkey-Arko) but even that seems to be less of a sure thing these days.

Personally, I already have a few tubes of Proraso in store from when we left the EU. It's available again now (at higher prices) but it did disappear from the market for a short period (and has never come back at somewhere like Connaughts, so I expect what we see on Amazon now is actually a grey import). So, never say never!

Wasn't aware of reformulation, what see available locally (US) are the non-striped tubes if that has any relevance. The only Proraso products that I use with any regularity are the Single-Blade creams and the Sandalwood Croap.

How long have you been using Proraso for? I've seen the one reformulation, but there have been a number over the years. The most recent one to "Super Formula" really improved it to the one before.

I myself wouldn't stock up the croap in the tub as it could be prone to drying out but the cream in the tube should be fine. If you like Proraso Green, have you tried Palmolive Menthol? It's another mentholated Italian shaving cream. It goes under the radar a little but it's glorious!

Soaps and Croaps will not dry out if you vacuum seal them for longer storage. Easy for me to say, as I have a sealer that gets heavy work from me for preserving my fish catches.

I prefer the tub when using a boar brush, it's all preference really. I'll have to keep eyes peeled for the Palmolive Rinfrescante when I need to boost the shopping cart. The standard Palmolive cream is really good.

A lot of respect for @Kalie for coming in and representing Kent and the business which in turn shows passion and respect for the community and business when it comes it's products and customers. I wish your products were distributed in Australia so I could have ordered some locally but it's great that it's still accessible nonetheless.
Thank you for all the information and keeping us updated. Enjoy your annual leave and have a great day.

I would also like to add that in regards to the ceramic dish I have two. The first one I bought many years ago which is somewhere in storage that I never used so I can't verify if it is just as bad but its gotta be from at least 2018 or older and the currant one which I did. The currant one is terrible. The label is of centre, the lid does not sit flush and the dish looks almost egg shaped because the lip on the side wall is thicker on one side than the other. Maybe the person making the ceramic dish is 100 years old and that is where they are getting the heritage from.
By comparison Tabac's jar's were and are still spot on perfect.
I believe Pannacrema's ceramic dish (before they went stupidly got rid of them) were a lot better quality too based on the three I have from memory as to were the now discontinued I Coloniali terracotta pots/jar and also the Boellis Panama 1924 pots/jar, Muhle's jar is also vastly superior too so I have no real love for the MWF ceramic dishes as they bottom of the heap amongst the above ones which I have and mentioned.

I'm the same boat, the ceramics I have are not perfect by any means; but like @PLANofMAN I chalk it up to Wabi-Sabi

Which is why I think it’s possible that it might not have been MWF’s choice to change from a tallow formula to a non tallow formula

Perhaps, perhaps not. Mitchell's hasn't specified one way or the other from what I have read. It could very well have been simply a financial decision from Mitchell's. The Contract Manufacturer is going to produce what is ordered given the available raw materials. CMs won't arbitrarily change the recipe and not inform their client. This presents a very high likelihood that the CM informed somebody at Mitchell's about the recipe change at some juncture before production of the first tallow-free batch; and that delegate needed to give the go-ahead.

Given the above presumption, Mitchell's, exercised their decision to not inform the public of their product change nor did they collaborate with their partner in business, Kent.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Hope you signed up for the newsletter and used the 10% Discount Code.
Direct Order from Kent is the least expensive option BY FAR; shipped cost is roughly $9.5 per...

I did. I'm a big fan of discount codes. I also used the $10 off newsletter sign up (with $50 min. purchase) at Bullgoose to get the ceramic w/refill for $25, which basically equates to a $10 spare ceramic dish.

That's how I'm going to explain it to the wife, anyways.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

My attitide is changing a bit as more comes to light. A very small Yorkshire firm with a dozen employees. Maybe not in the Yorkshire Dales of James Herriot fame, but Bradford is in a dale in Yorkshire. The more I read and learn, the less inclined I am to throw them under a bus!

Well, it’s a city in Yorkshire. Not really much like James Herriot.

 

[Goblin]

It should be like something you’d find in a Victorian apothecary. If everything was precise and even, and the lid fit with 21st century manufacturing accuracy, it would rather undermine the feel of it, for me. I think it’s just fine the way it is.

I think that is exactly the vibe they were going for and got it just right. I also think the dish is just fine how it is. Mine is also circa 12 years old and is a tiny bit wonky, but no biggie - it's not meant to provide an air-tight seal. It's function is to protect the soap from crud and look cool, both of which it does.

 

[purecro]

I still have the old formula I will try it and see how it goes then see if I want to get another while the old formula is still available. This thread has gone onto many pages.

 

[ChriWilson]

I did. I'm a big fan of discount codes. I also used the $10 off newsletter sign up (with $50 min. purchase) at Bullgoose to get the ceramic w/refill for $25, which basically equates to a $10 spare ceramic dish.

That's how I'm going to explain it to the wife, anyways.

Any plans to take the new formulation for a go?
I may pick one up for next SOTM; worst case I can frankensoap it with PAA Scentsless or Stirling Unscented
(or add a stick of Arko - Gasp)

It is too risky to combine the New formula with my current 1/2 remaining puck;

 

[Loner16]

Well, it’s a city in Yorkshire. Not really much like James Herriot.

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I don't think the Yorkshire Dales, at least the way Alf Wight (James Herriot) experienced them, really exist anymore... sadly.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I don't think the Yorkshire Dales, at least the way Alf Wight (James Herriot) experienced them, really exist anymore... sadly.

Oh, I don’t know. There’s a lot of very beautiful countryside in Yorkshire - fields with dry stone walls, hills. Britain has always preserved its countryside and most of it cannot legally be developed.

 

[Loner16]

Oh, I don’t know. There’s a lot of very beautiful countryside in Yorkshire - fields with dry stone walls, hills. Britain has always preserved its countryside and most of it cannot legally be developed.

Yes, I agree, I'm sure the area appears quite similar.. It's the way of like that existed in Alf's Veterinary practice that I think is probably gone. The world changes...
If I'm wrong, I'm quite pleased..

 

[GR5233]

For my good self, water and wood often do not play well together.. the wood starts to look a bit tattered.

For me it would depend on what variety of wood was used to make the bowl. Teak and southern live oak are known for their high water resistance and used in shipbuilding. But even then there’s a reason why sailors were always painting and using holy stones to maintain their ships