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Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF): Optimization Results Help SOLVE the MYSTERY!

Not that I can think of. Not giving up yet, though. All thoughts and suggestions welcome.

I looked into the issue of your MWF that transitioned from making a "thick, slick, rich lather" to a "very thin bubbly, sudsy lather", the latter sounding like what was described in the OP. According to the website of a soap maker, soaps that are aged longer will lather quicker. Another soap maker wrote, "But just like fine wine, there comes a point in time when it can go from being perfectly aged to downright old." Are there any soap makers here who can verify any of this? It sounds like MWF, and maybe other soaps, can transition from good to bad over a year of aging. Has anyone else experienced this with MWF or another soap?
 
I've got a puck of MWF that I've used for the past 2-3 winters. It is my second puck of MWF. It has been my absolute favorite soap for many, many years, and I've never encountered any of the lathering problems that seem to plague so many; in fact, for me, MWF has always produced a thick, slick, rich lather with tremendous ease. This year... I feel like my best, long time friend has let me down! Frustrating and disappointing. A real head-scratcher.
It sounds like MWF, and maybe other soaps, can transition from good to bad over a year of aging. Has anyone else experienced this with MWF or another soap?
So, storage appears to be the culprit then? Perhaps I've been lucky enough to get a 'fresh' puck?

A couple of anecdotal notes; a few people had reported poor performance and a dryish or cracking puck. Does this ring true @MrMoJoe?

@ShavingByTheNumbers I recall you describing your puck as 'hard'. Can you elaborate?

The reason I ask this is because my puck was soft - as soaps go - certainly much softer than a normal soap bar. Think Dove bar. When I grated it to make Fat 'as (two parts MWF one part Haslinger Sheep's Milk, or 50:50 if you prefer) the result felt like long bits of stringy cheese. Soaps that I classify as 'hard' grate into granules.

I suppose it would be good to know which aspect of age might be a factor. The obvious ones are heat, evaporation, oxidisation and an internal chemical reaction. If we consider it's possible that some poor folks have received a 'new' puck that's already gone off, then packaging would minimise evaporation and oxidisation to a certain extent.

I'm riffing here, anyone else have any thoughts?
 
@ShavingByTheNumbers I recall you describing your puck as 'hard'. Can you elaborate?

The reason I ask this is because my puck was soft - as soaps go - certainly much softer than a normal soap bar. Think Dove bar. When I grated it to make Fat 'as (two parts MWF one part Haslinger Sheep's Milk, or 50:50 if you prefer) the result felt like long bits of stringy cheese. Soaps that I classify as 'hard' grate into granules.

My MWF is harder than other shaving soaps that I have with the possible exception of L'Occitane Cade. I'm judging hardness based on the force that I feel when using a plastic spoon to scrape the surface and collect soap to place onto the bottom of a lathering bowl. The MWF that I have isn't easy to scrape, and accordingly, it takes more time to mix with water when agitating it off the bottom of the lathering bowl during lather building. As far as I remember about shredding my MWF puck last year, the shreds were short, not long and stringy.

I think that @MrMoJoe has really hit on something. It seems like the freshness of MWF really matters. Maybe you got a "fresh" puck and I got an "old" puck? Has anyone experienced soap age (from the time of purchase) as an issue regarding performance for MWF or any other soap?
 
The only way I was able to achieve a satisfactory lather with MWF was when I used it as a shave stick. Even then, however, I found it inferior to all of the other soaps I own. That would be a list (in no particular order) including Stirling, RazoRock, Dapper Dragon, WhollyKaw, D.R. Harris, Haslinger, Mike's, LEA, LaToja, Tabac, Pre de Provence, Crabtree & Evelyn, and AOS. Given all of those other options, many of which contain lanolin, I don't see a reason to revisit MWF if your first try was disappointing.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Mine got all cracked within a short time of being opened for use ... this was also the one that had a pink mold bloom (which scraped right off this $ puck. I'da tossed a cheaper one; it's just soap).

And again, I was never happy with MWF until I overloaded the brush and face-lathered with it.

Post-shave face feel is great, but. You rinse that off and hit it with Aqua-Velva or something anyways, so.


AA
 
The only way I was able to achieve a satisfactory lather with MWF was when I used it as a shave stick. Even then, however, I found it inferior to all of the other soaps I own. That would be a list (in no particular order) including Stirling, RazoRock, Dapper Dragon, WhollyKaw, D.R. Harris, Haslinger, Mike's, LEA, LaToja, Tabac, Pre de Provence, Crabtree & Evelyn, and AOS. Given all of those other options, many of which contain lanolin, I don't see a reason to revisit MWF if your first try was disappointing.

Your experience sounds similar to mine. Less aeration did not alter the soap and water masses for the optimum mentioned in the OP. Maybe it's possible, though, that the soap that we used had chemically transformed into something bad compared to what others got.
 
My MWF is harder than other shaving soaps that I have
That's a definite point of contrast.
Even then, however, I found it inferior to all of the other soaps I own. That would be a list (in no particular order) including Stirling, RazoRock, Dapper Dragon, WhollyKaw, D.R. Harris, Haslinger, Mike's, LEA, LaToja, Tabac, Pre de Provence, Crabtree & Evelyn, and AOS
Interesting. I've marked those I've tried in green and I felt all were inferior to MWF. I also have those marked in orange coming so I'll compare when I can.

This begs the question, exactly how do we ensure our pucks are fresh? :S
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
My MWF is harder than other shaving soaps that I have with the possible exception of L'Occitane Cade. I'm judging hardness based on the force that I feel when using a plastic spoon to scrape the surface and collect soap to place onto the bottom of a lathering bowl. The MWF that I have isn't easy to scrape, and accordingly, it takes more time to mix with water when agitating it off the bottom of the lathering bowl during lather building. As far as I remember about shredding my MWF puck last year, the shreds were short, not long and stringy.

I think that @MrMoJoe has really hit on something. It seems like the freshness of MWF really matters. Maybe you got a "fresh" puck and I got an "old" puck? Has anyone experienced soap age (from the time of purchase) as an issue regarding performance for MWF or any other soap?

Wait .... you're not working the brush on the puck, you're scraping soap off to put in a separate bowl? Why? You might not be getting it all dissolved and mixed properly.

Have you tried just working the wet brush on the puck, then transferring the foamy lather to the bowl or face for working the air out? Every time you do this, the soap absorbs a little of the moisture, and over time becomes easier to work - but if you're not getting the puck wet, that won't happen.
 
Wait .... you're not working the brush on the puck, you're scraping soap off to put in a separate bowl? Why? You might not be getting it all dissolved and mixed properly.

Have you tried just working the wet brush on the puck, then transferring the foamy lather to the bowl or face for working the air out? Every time you do this, the soap absorbs a little of the moisture, and over time becomes easier to work - but if you're not getting the puck wet, that won't happen.

It helps to read something before you comment about it. Please read the OP, particularly the section on loading MWF and building lather with it, and for more details about the process of making exact lather in general, please see the link in the first bullet point under the optimum lather table. Everything that you're asking about was discussed in the OP.
 
The only thing that I enjoy about MWF is the scent. I was able to get it to lather, but the time and effort involved to do so just didn't make it worth using as a shave soap. It did however ended up being used in the shower.
 
The only thing that I enjoy about MWF is the scent. I was able to get it to lather, but the time and effort involved to do so just didn't make it worth using as a shave soap. It did however ended up being used in the shower.

It's great that you could put MWF to good use, Dave. :001_smile As far as I could figure, the high optimum water-to-soap ratio and lack of visual feedback makes it relatively difficult to hit the optimum lather for MWF, but that was with my puck of MWF. It was purchased last year and acts the same now as then, as far as I can tell. However, maybe the puck that I got was always "old" and inferior to a "fresh" puck. The "fresh" vs. "old" issue that's come up here could possibly explain the huge differences of opinion more than the sensitivity issue discussed in the OP. I've contacted MWF about this and I'll let you guys know their response.
 
So, storage appears to be the culprit then? Perhaps I've been lucky enough to get a 'fresh' puck?

A couple of anecdotal notes; a few people had reported poor performance and a dryish or cracking puck. Does this ring true @MrMoJoe?

@ShavingByTheNumbers I recall you describing your puck as 'hard'. Can you elaborate?

The reason I ask this is because my puck was soft - as soaps go - certainly much softer than a normal soap bar. Think Dove bar. When I grated it to make Fat 'as (two parts MWF one part Haslinger Sheep's Milk, or 50:50 if you prefer) the result felt like long bits of stringy cheese. Soaps that I classify as 'hard' grate into granules.

I suppose it would be good to know which aspect of age might be a factor. The obvious ones are heat, evaporation, oxidisation and an internal chemical reaction. If we consider it's possible that some poor folks have received a 'new' puck that's already gone off, then packaging would minimise evaporation and oxidisation to a certain extent.

I'm riffing here, anyone else have any thoughts?

Well, this is my second puck of MWF. The first puck lasted several years, and spent about 9 months out of each year stored away in a drawer. During this period of storage, the puck would shrink, dry, and crack. No problem though, as a good overnight soaking before the first use each winter brought it right back to life. This at least the 3rd year for this puck, yet I never had this problem with it before. I can only explain it one of two ways: Each puck has a "shelf life", which may vary from puck to puck, or it's my brush. I've been using a Whipped Dog synthetic brush exclusively for the last year at least (love it), and I'm pretty sure I used it last year on this puck with no problem. I think I will pull out my old Semogue boar and go at it and see what happens. The quest continues!
 
Interesting observations. It doesn't seem reasonable that the brush would matter that much, but for reference I use a Simpson Chubby 1 Super and load it for ten seconds or less.
 
Wow. This thread is as polarizing as a pepperoni pizza at a health spa. Gee, fellas, it is soap. Just soap. My experience is MWF likes not too hard water, appreciates a bit of blooming, and prefers stiff brushes. It does not like my tuxedo synthetic; it plays well with boar and cuddles up with pure badger. But that is at my home. This month. My impressions. No lab mice were harmed in this evaluation. :)
 
I soak my super badger chubby 2 brush for a minute or two shake most of water out, load MWF as much as I can onto it for about 45 sec, then face lather it on a bit dry. Then I add bits of water to brush until I dial in optimal lather consistency. Works great every time for me. I love it but I know it’s not for everyone especially as certain individuals have a lanolin sensitivity.
 

rockviper

I got moves like Jagger
It helps to read something before you comment about it. Please read the OP, particularly the section on loading MWF and building lather with it, and for more details about the process of making exact lather in general, please see the link in the first bullet point under the optimum lather table. Everything that you're asking about was discussed in the OP.
I thought the question was legit.

If a post is more than 1/2-2/3rds of a screen, I'll be totally honest and say that I generally don't read the entire thing. Pics and such will get my attention, but I'm not into deep dives to comprehend doctoral theses.
 
45 years ago I took the Evelyn Wood speed reading course. Great for consuming the written word. In quantity. In the class we read Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea. It is about an old guy who catches a fish.
 
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