If you try my way you'll get much better results 
doesn't matter if you've got soft to hard water 
doesn't matter if you've got soft to hard water Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF): Optimization Results Help SOLVE the MYSTERY!
- Thread starter ShavingByTheNumbers
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- #222
You're welcome.
If you try my way you'll get much better results
I appreciate the advice, SpeedyPC, but I've basically done what you've suggested in the past and it didn't matter. MWF still didn't work well for me. Would you be willing to run an experiment, take photos, and post results?
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- #223
Preliminary Conclusions about Differences of Opinion on Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF)
Based on results from myself and others in this thread, here are preliminary conclusions on MWF that I offer here for consideration and feedback:
- It appears that there are big differences of opinion about similar or identical lather from MWF, as supported by two cases of members sharing MWF samples:
- @ShavingByTheNumbers (Grant) sent @rockviper (Sam) a sample of MWF that Grant considered as making an airy lather that was not slick (B&B URL). Sam posted lather photos and reported that Grant's MWF made the slick lather with MWF that Sam was used to (B&B URL, B&B URL, B&B URL, B&B URL). Grant looked at Sam's photos and was reminded of the inferior lather with MWF that Grant was used to (B&B URL).
- @AlphaFrank75 (Dan) sent @ShavingByTheNumbers (Grant) a sample of MWF that Dan considered as making a "somewhat" thick, rich, and slick lather (B&B URL). Grant made lathers with distilled water, took photos, and shaved with the lathers in controlled tests between his MWF and Dan's MWF. Grant found that the two samples of MWF made very similar lather, both in appearance and performance, airy and not slick, with the exception that Dan's MWF had a lower optimum water-to-soap ratio (B&B URL).
- A puck of MWF might actually degrade with age, as indicated by the experience of @MrMoJoe, who found that his MWF changed from "always" making very good lather in the prior two or three winters to making "a very thin bubbly, sudsy lather" (B&B URL).
- Lack of visual feedback regarding lather hydration has been photographed by @ShavingByTheNumbers (Grant) for two samples of MWF (B&B URL), which might just be observed as making airy lather no matter the reasonable water-to-soap ratio. Combined with the possibility that MWF may be used in smaller amounts compared to other soaps, this would also make MWF a more difficult soap to lather, more difficult to hit the right amounts of soap and water for the particular user, and explain why some users never get MWF to work for them (B&B URL).
Photo coming soon while I start warming the brush to get everything ready, etc etc etc
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- #225
Great! When you take pictures, please try to take an extreme close-up with an object that can be used for the scale of the picture. I used a millimeter-marked scale, but a standard coin or something else would work fine.
I'll do my very best what image size frame do you want???
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- #227
I take multiple pictures of the same thing with the largest size that my camera can handle (10 megapixels). Then, I choose the best, most focused picture of the bunch. Then, I copy and paste that picture to a different location for editing. Usually, I add some brightness and contrast to make the picture truer to reality. The pictures that I take are often resampled to smaller sizes for posting at B&B to cut down on file sizes. For the extreme close-up photos that I put together and cropped in PowerPoint, the resampling was minimal, I believe. I wanted to keep as much detail as I could.
SpeedyPC Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF) step by step instruction.... Click onto the image for a closer look
1. Soak a 2 band badger brush in a mug with very warm water just below the knot, don't soak the whole knot.
2. If you have a Mitchell's Wool Fat ceramic dish or something in a container with a close lid.
3. Just dribble some warm water on top of the MWF puck of soap, just enough dribble of water to cover the whole top surface of the puck. Place the lid on top of the ceramic dish or container so the water doesn't dry out too soon. Picture below
4. Let the brush and the dribble water on top of the puck soak for at least 10 to 15 minutes. Picture below
5. Grab your favourite shaving lather bowl.
6. Shake and gently squeeze the knot just make sure the brush is damp not too wet.
7. Grab your Mitchell's Wool Fat and remove the lid, by now the top layer of soap has been soaken up. Picture below
8. Grab the brush and start loading heavy for about 20 second and keep on collection all the soap and foam, transfer it to your lather bowl and do this three times until you've got enough MWF soap or foam just two hand full size amount not too big. Picture below
9. Grab you're lather bowl and your brush don't add any water not yet, now start load the bowl and until you've completely air out all the bubbles should take about 2 minutes. Picture below
10. Keep on swirling your brush until the lather starts to feel a bit stiff, this means you've completely air out the bubbles and the MWF is starting to thicken. Picture below
11. Just add a touch a bit more water and keep swirling the brush and keep building the lather for about another minute or two, by than the MWF lather become very thick creamy slick lather.
That's it full stop BANG!! look at the bowl and feel the lather with both hands
1. Soak a 2 band badger brush in a mug with very warm water just below the knot, don't soak the whole knot.
2. If you have a Mitchell's Wool Fat ceramic dish or something in a container with a close lid.
3. Just dribble some warm water on top of the MWF puck of soap, just enough dribble of water to cover the whole top surface of the puck. Place the lid on top of the ceramic dish or container so the water doesn't dry out too soon. Picture below
4. Let the brush and the dribble water on top of the puck soak for at least 10 to 15 minutes. Picture below
5. Grab your favourite shaving lather bowl.
6. Shake and gently squeeze the knot just make sure the brush is damp not too wet.
7. Grab your Mitchell's Wool Fat and remove the lid, by now the top layer of soap has been soaken up. Picture below
8. Grab the brush and start loading heavy for about 20 second and keep on collection all the soap and foam, transfer it to your lather bowl and do this three times until you've got enough MWF soap or foam just two hand full size amount not too big. Picture below
9. Grab you're lather bowl and your brush don't add any water not yet, now start load the bowl and until you've completely air out all the bubbles should take about 2 minutes. Picture below
10. Keep on swirling your brush until the lather starts to feel a bit stiff, this means you've completely air out the bubbles and the MWF is starting to thicken. Picture below
11. Just add a touch a bit more water and keep swirling the brush and keep building the lather for about another minute or two, by than the MWF lather become very thick creamy slick lather.
That's it full stop BANG!! look at the bowl and feel the lather with both hands
- Thread starter
- #229
Wow! Great detail, @SpeedyPC! Thanks! 
It's hard for me to tell how good the lather is without an extreme close-up, but your lather looks good. I'll probably run an experiment on my end with my MWF or @AlphaFrank75's MWF. However, before doing that, I'd like your input. I would start with a measured mass of soap in the bowl and use my synthetic brush to build lather, so there would be no need for soaking the brush or the soap. You used warm water, but I would use room-temperature water. Would my use of room-temperature water be acceptable or is warm water necessary with your method? I would add water in small amounts, trying to follow your method of slowly building the lather and keeping the air out. Would adding water in small amounts and building slowly be an acceptable representation of your method?
It's hard for me to tell how good the lather is without an extreme close-up, but your lather looks good. I'll probably run an experiment on my end with my MWF or @AlphaFrank75's MWF. However, before doing that, I'd like your input. I would start with a measured mass of soap in the bowl and use my synthetic brush to build lather, so there would be no need for soaking the brush or the soap. You used warm water, but I would use room-temperature water. Would my use of room-temperature water be acceptable or is warm water necessary with your method? I would add water in small amounts, trying to follow your method of slowly building the lather and keeping the air out. Would adding water in small amounts and building slowly be an acceptable representation of your method?Room temperature doesn't make any difference trust me and if you think about living in UK throughout the whole season you go mad about room temperature, and believe me when I tell you this it does take a bit of understand of HOW MWF really works. I have no issue at ALL building a lather from soft to hard water please trust me 
Warm water straight from the tap help loosen the top layer of soap not the whole puck, you can try cold water wouldn't make any difference.
Be extra careful when adding a small amount of water say a few drops after you've completely air out the soap, MWF doesn't like having too much water which is very hard to find the right amount of water. Because if you add too much water the lather will collapse and start to get bubbly and start to fade the lather will disappear, so you really need to sit down and pay close attention of how MWF really works if you don't open your eyes
Warm water straight from the tap help loosen the top layer of soap not the whole puck, you can try cold water wouldn't make any difference.Be extra careful when adding a small amount of water say a few drops after you've completely air out the soap, MWF doesn't like having too much water which is very hard to find the right amount of water. Because if you add too much water the lather will collapse and start to get bubbly and start to fade the lather will disappear, so you really need to sit down and pay close attention of how MWF really works if you don't open your eyes
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- Thread starter
- #231
Room temperature doesn't make any difference trust me and if you think about living in UK throughout the whole season you go mad about room temperature, and believe me when I tell you this it does take a bit of understand of HOW MWF really works. I have no issue at ALL building a lather from soft to hard water please trust me
Be extra careful when adding a small amount of water say a few drops after you've completely air out the soap, MWF doesn't like having too much water which is very hard to find the right amount of water. Because if you add too much water the lather will collapse and start to get bubbly and start to fade the lather will disappear, so you really need to sit down and pay close attention of how MWF really works if you don't open your eyes
Thanks. Okay. I'll start with the soap in the bowl and add room-temperature water slowly while building lather. I'll probably do more than one experiment relative to the total amount of water.
Loading directly on the puck is the way MWF was meant to be used. The more it gets used on a regular basis, then better it is.
I didn't think of this option @rockviper I'm going to give this a spin, by slowly building the lather onto puck but I still need to completely air out as much bubble as possible to thicken the lather.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Agreed! At the risk of getting snarky comments, I'll add in my own conclusions from using this soap almost exclusively.
The "age" thing is a complete misnomer in my opinion. A drier puck may take a little more effort, but that's all it is - drier. The soap absorbs moisture over time, and this affects the amount of water, time, and agitation needed to produce the user's preferred lather.
"Optimising" is also a complete misnomer. Firstly as just mentioned, the base condition of the puck is variable. Secondly, different users have different preferences. There is no set optimum lather, nor any set equation to get there.
Add in the other complications of water chemistry, and differences in brushes and how much moisture this robs from the mix (for example,my mix varies to how long my brush has been soaking) and that just leads to more confusion. The brush will also affect how much agitation is required
The people who claim you need more water and more soap to get better lather also confuse me. More soap and more water is just more lather, not better lather.
Soak brush, rub on puck, transfer to face and knock bubbles out. Water and soap content vary, even if sticking with same water type and same brush. Experience, and not pre-defined ratios, are what will lead you to get the lather you require. The more the puck is used, the more water it absorbs, and the easier, simpler and quicker it is to achieve (my) preferred lather consistency and quality (usually thinner than the lathers I've seen photographed here).
The "magic" of daily use with just about any triple-milled soap is that all you're doing is helping to rehydrate the puck. Triple milling removes a LOT of the moisture that would otherwise be found in the soap.
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- #236
Yes. There shouldn't be any problem taking a bit of soap off from a dry puck, placing that soap in a bowl, and then adding water and building lather.
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- #237
It didn't sound like @rockviper was saying that lather should be built on the puck, but that MWF was meant to be loaded directly on the puck.
I often have difficulty loading the very last bits of a soap when it starts to fall apart and crumble. This happens earlier in a soap's death throes if it has been grated, but happens with just about everything in my experience. Shaving off tiny bits to use each day would present, to me, similar issues. That's why I advocate loading from the puck or using the puck as a stick.
Actually building lather on a puck is something I have done many times. Lots of goodness resulted but there is a fair bit of increased product usage.
Actually building lather on a puck is something I have done many times. Lots of goodness resulted but there is a fair bit of increased product usage.
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- #239
I often have difficulty loading the very last bits of a soap when it starts to fall apart and crumble. This happens earlier in a soap's death throes if it has been grated, but happens with just about everything in my experience. Shaving off tiny bits to use each day would present, to me, similar issues. That's why I advocate loading from the puck or using the puck as a stick.
Actually building lather on a puck is something I have done many times. Lots of goodness resulted but there is a fair bit of increased product usage.
Thanks for the clarification, Sam. What you wrote makes sense. I'm sure that many here can relate to it. Regarding building lather with a small amount of soap, I scrape it from the puck and push it down onto the bottom center of the lathering bowl. That's what works for me, but it doesn't matter how the soap is removed from the puck. Loading a brush is the normal way and that works, too, to make great lather.
EB Newfarm
Cane? I'm Able!
This is really a great discussion. I realize that my comments have been less than scientific and that I can only speak to where I am right now. I wonder if my enjoyment of this soap is limited to how few other soaps I have tried. Maybe there is a lot out there that I am missing. Shavingbythenumbers- thanks for going through all of the trouble to be so objective! It has been very educational!
