I do the same math when I buy soap/creams. I noticed that at least one UK vendor updated their prices and now MWF is a bit more expensive.
Great value, in my opinion.
Great value, in my opinion.
Mitchell's Wool Fat Fans: Is there a shaving soap that is equal or better?
- Thread starter StellaNova
- Start date
We will likely see a lot of that. Also have noticed that on many U.K./European sites that MWF is frequently out of stock. Euro is also way down vs. the U.S.$. Connaughts regularly goes out-of-stock and never has a lot of the product on hand with often less that the 6 unit maximum allowed order for MWF (they only limit certain soaps). Interestingly they have plenty of Tabac new formula refill pucks with no limit on the order size.
Hi RayClem, can you post the details of your Arko rating. Curious to see where the gaps were and where it did well. I'm surprised that Arko achieved a 73% on a scale that is capable of differentiating high-end artisan soaps.
For example for those who don't care about scent, per the above, Arko would have scored 39/50 for the remaining points or 78% which is not bad for a $1-$2 soap stick.
I'n a big fan of MWF and have been for years but I imagine there are a number of soaps that match it for performance and a few that exceed it. However, I haven't had any of them so I don't know first hand.
Thanks, roughly what I was expecting to see. Looking at core shaving performance that excludes scent and post shave feel Arko scores 40/50 or 80% based on @RayClem 's evaluation. Most of these scores in the core shaving areas are consistent with the many positive reviews out there.
Lots of value for a $1 -$2 soap stick. Possibly Rayclem's mixed residual slickness score could be due to his loading approach where he typically loads for just 10 seconds per other posts. If you load a lot more for a richer soap blend there is plenty of residual slickness (YMMV here). I load a lot for each shave typically partially building the lather on the soap in a mug for around 30 seconds before face lathering.
Bottom line when you dig into the detailed ratings Arko lathers easily to produce great slick lather that facilitates an excellent shave for a budget price. Arko shavers get 80% of the quality for 10% of the price of the top tier soaps.
Rayclem's analytic approach is excellent. The best way to use analyses like these is to look at the scoring criteria and interpret them based on the evaluation characteristics that are important to you while adjusting for impacts from different techniques. I've found that by adjusting my technique and using a stiffer boar brush when needed I can easily load and lather any shaving soap. Given all the mixed reviews no one will argue with a 5/10 on Arko scent when that is important to the individual and preferred loading/lathering techniques can impact residual slickness.
Almost forgot, this is supposed to be a Mitchell's Wool Fat(MWF) thread. Compared to Arko MWF delivers a similar great shaving experience with the added benefits of a nicer mild scent and enhanced post shave feel. At roughly $6 per 125 gram puck landed in the U.S. from Connaught Shaving it's also great value and not that much more costly than Arko per gram.
P.S. Noticed that the detailed criteria add to 70 points, wonder if Rayclem weights these to arrive at a total possible score of 60.
Last edited:
In order to achieve a loading score of 10/10, the soap has to be able to load in no less than 10 seconds. A loading score of 8/10 means that it took longer than 10 seconds. Since the MWF puck was dry, I added 1 Tablespoon of hot water to the mug and allowed the puck to bloom while I took my shower. Even with that, it still took far longer than 10 seconds to load the soap with my Omega 10098 Professional boar. I continued to load until I had sufficient soap for my usual 5 lather passes. Since I rated it as 8/10, loading time was likely around 30 seconds.
Likewise, I normally expect a soap to lather in less than 60 seconds. My best soaps will produce a smooth lather free of bubbles in about 30 seconds of vigorous agitation in my lather bowl. Normally, I refuse to lather for more than 60 seconds. With WMF, I lathered for two minutes and still did not have an ideal lather, but I was not about to spend twelve minutes lathering like one guy on a YouTube video.
In my experience, residual slickness has a lot to do with the formulation of the soap. Soaps that have unsaponified fats tend to have both excellent residual slickness and excellent post shave moisturizing. In the case of WMF, the primary moisturizing is provided by the inclusion of glycerin.
My formulation of WMF contains titanium dioxide which is a highly abrasive pigment used to provide opacity in paints. Some soaps contain Bentonite clay as a filler, but due to the platelet structure of clay, it provides some slickness. I have no idea why anyone would include titanium dioxide in shaving soap. I also found it is used in Cremo shave cream, and Art of Shaving soap, neither of which rate highly on my scoring system. My box of Williams has a footnote on the ingredients that the soap may contain sodium palm kernelate. Palm oil and palm kernel oils are inexpensive vegetable oils high in lauric and myristic fatty acids and low in stearic acid. Since the possible inclusion of palm kernelate is added, it means the soapmakers are far more concerned with the cost of soap production than consistent soap quality.
In my scoring system, I allocate a total of 60 points for performance. Some of my newest soaps are so good that I have awarded bonus points, so my top soaps score 62 points on performance. I also award up to 6 points for scent strength and up to 10 points for scent preference. Since WMF has minimal scent, it scores 4 points for strength and 5 points for scent preference. Only soaps with scents I cannot stand score lower. WMF is not objectionable. My overall score for WMF is 41 of 60 on performance and 50/76 including scent.
The lowest soap I ever rated was a 37/76. The performance and scent of the soap was terrible. That soap was never used again.
For those on an extreme budget, I recommend looking at Yardley of London. I rated Yardley of London bath bar with Cocoa Butter to be 48/60 on performance and 56/76 overall. Although it is not designed to be used for shaving, Yardley bath bar provides a better shave at a price of around $1.00 per 4 oz bar.
Hi RayClem, thank you for shifting the dialogue from Arko back to Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF) shaving soap. First, how do you arrive at a max scale of 76 points? Your Arko scale in the post above maxed out at 70 points. Guessing that you vary the scoring criteria by soap.
Some confusion as when you've posted elsewhere you have recommended MWF (and Tabac) for those who do not prefer to use artisan soaps. How do you reconcile your earlier recommendation of MWF with what you would consider almost a failing score above?
Similar to Arko above can you give us the detailed listing of your MWF scores. This will allow everyone to interpret them based on what matters per individual preferences. For example if a really strong fragrance is is a top priority then you might choose an alternative soap. If not, as you have recommended, exclude it from the score. MWF has a mild and pleasant fragrance that many like but it is not specifically scented as something such as a floral or fougere as many artisan soaps are.
Additionally your scale, that fits your preferences for softer soaps that load very quickly, is not an ideal fit for really hard triple milled soaps like MWF and Williams that are so hard that they have no malleability like an Arko or Tabac (new formula). Soaps like this were really built for lathering directly on the puck versus separate loading and lathering with a softer soap. A 10 second loading time favors softer croaps and is not a fair criteria for hard soaps. The only soap I own that can be loaded in just 10 seconds or so before face lathering is my Proraso Red croap. Hard soaps should be judged via a different set of loading and lathering criteria than softer soaps.
For both MWF and Williams, when used with the right brush (boar is best for these really hard soaps), it is easy to build a strong proto lather on the puck (dry puck in my case) in a minute or so that rapidly blooms into plenty of rich and slick lather when the process is completed via face lathering for another minute. The key is to have a mug or container with extra vertical space to hold the growing lather combined with longer brushes. In my case all my brushes have a 63mm loft.
For my more malleable triple milled soaps, such as Arko, Tabac and Razorock What the Puck the process is the same though I use my softer synthetic brushes instead of my boar.
Just had a really nice 10/10 shave with MWF, posted on What is Your Soap for Today? Details and link to lather & soap picture via the link below.
MWF is just excellent soap. Just need to lather it like the extremely hard puck that it is, not with methods more similar to those used with croaps.
www.badgerandblade.com
MWF is just excellent soap. Just need to lather it like the extremely hard puck that it is, not with methods more similar to those used with croaps.
What's your soap for today?
www.badgerandblade.com
In my years of wet shaving I'd never used MWF. But after joining this forum, and reading posts on the difficulty of creating lather, I decided to give it a try.
I found that it wasn't as easy as say, a tube of Proraso, but it wasn't any more difficult than any of my other hard pucks. It's not my favorite, but IMO it's a great soap, very slick, with a nice post shave feel.
I found that it wasn't as easy as say, a tube of Proraso, but it wasn't any more difficult than any of my other hard pucks. It's not my favorite, but IMO it's a great soap, very slick, with a nice post shave feel.
Titanium dioxide - and to think this is even in food that we eat. Banned in the EU for a food additive.
ARKO -great lather with no effort
In 15 years or more of using MWF, I've had no effort in making an easy lather of it. If one can't lather MWF, they should just stick to Barbasol or similar. Now, I also like Arko and have a puck in my regular rotation but to put the two in the same sentence is just silly.
Actually you just did!
I'll do another one since it's so easy: "Arko and MWF are both excellent shave soaps with Arko providing greater value and a bit more ease of lathering (synthetic brush vs. boar for MWF) while MWF delivers a more pleasing aroma and post shave feel for the extra cost"P.S. I do get where you are coming from. Arko screams economy based on how it's sold and packaged while MWF's marketing and especially its packaging scream luxury in excess of its actual price point. Impressive packaging in waxed paper and a two layer bespoke box versus some higher end soaps. Was surprised that my more premium D.R. Harris was a bare puck in a box just like Williams Shave soap.
Actually, I didn't.Actually you just did!
P.S. I do get where you are coming from. Arko screams economy based on how it's sold and packaged while MWF's marketing and especially its packaging scream luxury in excess of its actual price point. Impressive packaging in waxed paper and a two layer bespoke box versus some higher end soaps. Was surprised that my more premium D.R. Harris was a bare puck in a box just like Williams Shave soap.
Last edited:
I've used MWF a lot but prefer sticks and find Arko just as good a soap as WMF.
Outstanding!
D.R. Harris soaps and Taylor of Old Bond Street hard soaps perform equally well IMO.
Titanium dioxide is like added to prevent the soap from breaking down over time and exposure to UV and other things. It helps prevent the soap from cracking and crumbling, especially as it ages. It also helps MWF to maintain its color and opacity over time.
I finally broke down and ordered some MWF. I used to be scared of these really hard soaps, but I conquered Trumper's so I have no more fear. I can't wait for it to get here.
I hope it is better than ARKO, which has no residual slickness and leaves my skin dry. I am looking for a cheaper solution to soaps for use with a straight razor and residual slickness and protection are important to me. Also, though I have a number of artisan soaps, I realized I only like the clean, soapy smelling and barbershop scents. I really like the smell of both La Toja soaps, for example. La Toja is a lot better than Arko is every regard and I hope MWF will be better, still.
I finally broke down and ordered some MWF. I used to be scared of these really hard soaps, but I conquered Trumper's so I have no more fear. I can't wait for it to get here.
I hope it is better than ARKO, which has no residual slickness and leaves my skin dry. I am looking for a cheaper solution to soaps for use with a straight razor and residual slickness and protection are important to me. Also, though I have a number of artisan soaps, I realized I only like the clean, soapy smelling and barbershop scents. I really like the smell of both La Toja soaps, for example. La Toja is a lot better than Arko is every regard and I hope MWF will be better, still.
