Mineral tanned strop question

[otto76]

Gooood evening all.
A little while ago I made a strop from a strip of mineral tanned leather I ordered from McMaster-Carr.
Here is the link:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#leather/=ilfwve
And a pic:

I'm not sure how easy it is to tell from the photos but it's almost a suede, not quite but nearly. Definitely rougher than full grain leather.
I haven't used a lot of different strops. This one has a lot of draw which is nice but doesn't seem to give me a good edge, which isn't nice at all.

I do like the draw, it's the first strop I've made so maybe I have a little attachment to it, but do you think the material is no good for use as a strop? Could I change my technique and get better results from it? Lighter stroke maybe? Or is leather with a nearly suede surface no good for a strop at all?

If not for a strop could it be pasted and used as a pre-finisher or something?

Like I said, very limited experience with strops. I have had a whipped dog "poor man's strop" and am using a Star Shaving "Big Daddy" right now. Both have about the same consistency I think.

Sub question, since I'm always looking for something different...what's your favorite strop for at,around, or under $100? Preferably something completely different from the aforementioned. Love the one I'm using now but if I buy something else I'd like it to be a different experience.

Thanks!

 

[jred]

You might be able to flatten/smooth out the suede-iness. Ordinarily I'd say to dampen the leather and rub a mug all over it, with some pressure. Not sure how it'd work with mineral tanned leather, but you could try on some scrap.

 

[otto76]

Thanks jred!
I will try that, I already sort of tried this when I was preparing it, taking a gob of Fromm strop dressing and massaging it in. I think I used my hands though, don't remember using the mug.
It also crossed my mind that I could progressively sand it to the smoothness I want but I'm not sure leather works like that. Do you know?

 

[Easttexasman]

It looks like the strop is 5 feet long.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Interesting project. Not being all that knowledgeable about the leather-making process, I am wondering why you chose mineral-tanned over vegetable-tanned. Another mystery for me here is your reference to suede-like. Dovo Russian leather strops (which might prove interesting to you given the circumstance) and their siblings are sort of "suede-like" and in France, I have used a strop with a similar ochre color to yours as depicted, which had a very slight velour to it. Thing is, neither the Russian leather nor the French strop had a heavy draw like yours. Is it heavier than the Big Daddy?

 

[otto76]

It looks like the strop is 5 feet long.

LOL, it does look that way in the pic. It is long though, actual stropping surface is about 27".

Interesting project. Not being all that knowledgeable about the leather-making process, I am wondering why you chose mineral-tanned over vegetable-tanned. Another mystery for me here is your reference to suede-like. Dovo Russian leather strops (which might prove interesting to you given the circumstance) and their siblings are sort of "suede-like" and in France, I have used a strop with a similar ochre color to yours as depicted, which had a very slight velour to it. Thing is, neither the Russian leather nor the French strop had a heavy draw like yours. Is it heavier than the Big Daddy?

I have zero knowledge of the leather making process, thus all the goofy questions!
My choice on the mineral tanned leather was based on the description that it was "stronger but more supple" than veg tanned from the same place. It also cost more so naturally I assumed it was better Lastly, the color description was intriguing. I wanted a blue strop.
In hindsight I don't know if "more supple" is the most desirable quality in a strop. It needs to be, to a point, I think it can be too soft though.

I would think that any suede like surface would have a heavier drag than a smoother full grain type surface; the Big Daddy has a much lighter draw than this one. Now I'm curious about the Dovo strops you're talking about, that's interesting.

Earlier today I spent a little time sanding the strop, starting fairly rough and progressing to super fine micro mesh. Then I took jred's advice; first made a lather with proraso sandalwood and smeared it all over the strop. Then really rubbed it in using the curved side of my sanding block. Followed that up with the same treatment using Fromm strop dressing. A couple of hours later (?) I ran a couple of laps with my Boker...the draw seems lighter and the surface is definitely smoother. It's still not completely dried, I will strop on it tomorrow night and see how it works out. Fingers crossed.

If nothing else I'm learning what not to do!

 

[Alum of Potash]

I have sanded a couple of loom strops using a sequence of 200x, 400x, and 600x wet-dry sandpaper used dry, with a small, matchbook-sized block of wood as a sanding block, and using a light circular motion. This yielded a surface not unlike Russian leather (I vacuum the surface between grits). Some would say to sand up to 800x or 1000x; I just went with the advice of a friend who knows a lot about straight-razor shaving. This was followed by sharpening paste, which protected the surface to some extant. A little while ago, I mentioned this technique, and one our B&Bers, nobody, cautioned that a naked leather surface after sanding would need treatment of some kind, be it neatsfoot oil or some sort of strop dressing. Following this, I sanded a crox laden knife strop on a paddle and applied Dovo yellow paste dressing (kind of expensive, neatsfoot oil is cheaper) and this seemed to help. Again, I am far from being an expert here, but I think that putting the leather on a flat surface while sanding would be important (I was sanding loom strops and a paddle strop so the leather was already tensioned or flat) and that dry would be the way to go while sanding. Then the soap and dressing--perhaps a tallow-based soap being preferred here.

 

[otto76]

I have sanded a couple of loom strops using a sequence of 200x, 400x, and 600x wet-dry sandpaper used dry, with a small, matchbook-sized block of wood as a sanding block, and using a light circular motion. This yielded a surface not unlike Russian leather (I vacuum the surface between grits). Some would say to sand up to 800x or 1000x; I just went with the advice of a friend who knows a lot about straight-razor shaving. This was followed by sharpening paste, which protected the surface to some extant. A little while ago, I mentioned this technique, and one our B&Bers, nobody, cautioned that a naked leather surface after sanding would need treatment of some kind, be it neatsfoot oil or some sort of strop dressing. Following this, I sanded a crox laden knife strop on a paddle and applied Dovo yellow paste dressing (kind of expensive, neatsfoot oil is cheaper) and this seemed to help. Again, I am far from being an expert here, but I think that putting the leather on a flat surface while sanding would be important (I was sanding loom strops and a paddle strop so the leather was already tensioned or flat) and that moistening it might risk to invite curling or cupping, which wouldn't be a good thing, so dry may be the way to go here while sanding. Then the dressing...

Okay good, if I understand your method this is pretty much what I did, minus the vacuuming in between grits (good idea, should have thought of that) and the neatsfoot oil. I ended up replacing neatsfoot oil with strop dressing and just regular lather in the maintenance of my strop, mainly because I didn't like the smell of the stuff. Are there some properties to it that I need for a strop that aren't found in strop dressing or lather or did you use it in this case because of the lack of moisture with it?

 

[Alum of Potash]

I ended up replacing neatsfoot oil with strop dressing and just regular lather in the maintenance of my strop, mainly because I didn't like the smell of the stuff. Are there some properties to it that I need for a strop that aren't found in strop dressing or lather or did you use it in this case because of the lack of moisture with it?

I was just going by rote, as that was what nobody recommended at the time. The idea was to eliminate the naked leather's thirst for humidity. I smeared a very tiny bit of Dovo yellow paste across the palm and then rubbed the leather surface with it, as I do prior to stropping. Six-eight times or so seemed to do the trick, but it was a much smaller surface area than yours--2" x 10". Would do the same thing with Neatsfoot oil. Haven't tried the Fromm dressing, but I suppose it would work as it's for strops. A local shoe-repairman referred me to Meltonian Leather Balm for cleaning and initial moisturizing with old strops and this works pretty well too.

Edit: I just reread the Star Shaving strop descriptions, which state that the vegetable tanning process was used.

 

[otto76]

I was just going by rote, as that was what nobody recommended at the time. The idea was to eliminate the naked leather's thirst for humidity. I smeared a very tiny bit of Dovo yellow paste across the palm and then rubbed the leather surface with it, as I do prior to stropping. Six-eight times or so seemed to do the trick, but it was a much smaller surface area than yours--2" x 10". Would do the same thing with Neatsfoot oil. Haven't tried the Fromm dressing, but I suppose it would work as it's for strops. A local shoe-repairman referred me to Meltonian Leather Balm for cleaning and initial moisturizing with old strops and this works pretty well too.

Okay, I see. Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. Anxious to see how this turns out, it seems like it might work now. Could be hopeful thinking though.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Thanks as well. Out of curiosity, I just ordered a strip of the vegetable-tanned leather, as that is what the Star Shaving strop descriptions gave.

 

[otto76]

Where did you order it? I thought about ordering a strip of that from the place I bought this one.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Where did you order it? I thought about ordering a strip of that from the place I bought this one.

The link you gave in your first post. I ordered a 5" x 36" strip, thinking to cut it into two 2-1/2" x 36" strips. One to experiment with from the start. Thickness was the big question. I ordered the thickest (3/16").

 

[otto76]

Okay, cool! I'd like to know what you think of it, I was kicking around ordering some myself.

With the mineral tanned, I went with 1/8", I think it was because the leather on my other strop was 1/8" thick. I can't imagine a 1/16" difference will be a big deal one way or another, unless the leather is just super stiff to begin with.

 

[otto76]

Update- stropped with this before my shave tonight, it's a different animal now! Still had a fairly heavy draw but so much smoother than it was, even to the touch. You can absolutely tell the difference running the blade across it and the edge felt good for the shave. It's nice when things work out!

I think I am going to shorten it a little. The leather is not stiff at all and so the length plus the fact that it's a 2" wide strip make it overly easy to twist. I have to hold it really tight to keep it flat. But I think it's going to make a pretty nice strop, glad I didn't need to scrap the leather.

 

[paco664]

sand it... like it was suggested...

if you watch the kanayama video that was posted the other day you will notice him using a drum sander.....

get you a nice sanding block and a bucket of elbow grease....

 

[otto76]

I did sand it, did that prior to treating it. I didn't see the kanamaya video but a belt sander would have been pretty nice to have. It didn't take long though and I think I have it how I want it now, except maybe the length. Could be a little shorter.

 

[paco664]

I did sand it, did that prior to treating it. I didn't see the kanamaya video but a belt sander would have been pretty nice to have. It didn't take long though and I think I have it how I want it now, except maybe the length. Could be a little shorter.

sand it again!!!!!

lol...

the smoother you get it the better it will work...

 

[otto76]

Yessir sarge! Do you want to see your face in it?

 

[otto76]

Alrighty...did some more work to this strop.
First I shortened it up a little to a more manageable 21" of stropping surface. Much easier to keep flat & straight now. I am going to replace the hardware on the top with a D ring, I think that will help a lot. It swivels too easily the way it is now.

It still looks crazy long in the pic though.

I also fixed the handle up a little, made it more symmetrical. It's still not lovely but now it looks a little less like something a 5 year old put together for Father's day I need a compass or something to make lines when I'm trying to work on something like this, plus I need to slow down quite a bit and show a little more care. I am impatient.
I can live with this though:


Talked to Brian (Paco) a little more about re-sanding it, I'm going to wait because I think I like the draw on it as is. Being a strop newb I might find it needs to be smoothed out more later on, used it before my shave tonight and it worked really well though. It's good to know how to fix this problem though, I wasn't sure you could sand leather and get the desired results from it. I thought it had a lot more to do with how it was tanned or something.

As always, thank you all for your help and ideas.