I'll have to order some LAB Personna blades next order with Dave at www.razorbladesandmore.com and see how they are alike/different than the "Hopital Use" Med Preps I now have I got from him recently. I think he is on vacation for a few days, looking at getting in more supplies, so until then, best reports would be from someone "on here" that has used both before.
Medical Prep Personna
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Vern i covered this earlier (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/167425-Medical-Prep-Personna?p=2424093#post2424093) and covered it in my review of the blades (http://badgerandblade.com/reviews/s...284&title=-personna-medical-prep-blade&cat=50). For most people they will perform the same: the extra cleaning process does not matter. However, there are a few people who have PMed and e-mailed me who told them because of skin conditions the hospital blades perform better.
The question comes up why pay more? Well when I purchased them a long time ago I was PIFed a med blade and like them so much I bought a lot of them. A friend bought the EMS blade and we traded some blades. Both of us thought they performed the same. He had purchased more than 1,000 of them! Now both of us have an abundant supply and we use them interchangeably.
So, the blades for MOST people are the same. And if you buy them in quantity the price is still less than many other DE blades.
Thanks Jim, I'm sort of late to the party. Please pass a cold one!! LOL Thanks for the links. I would have found it unusual if someone has not done some investigation at this stage of the game. Jim, have you ever compared them against the Israeli Personna Super Platinums? Made in a whole different plant, I know but sometimes companies share machinery or technologies. Once upon a time Smith & Wesson was owned by the same parent company that owned Taurus as well. They exchanged ideas, blueprints, etc and it is no wonder that so many of the Taurus revolvers looked so much like the Smith & Wesson revolvers. One could even exchange some parts between them. So, with Personna in Israel and here in U.S. I was just wondering if some of the same methodology and techniques and others might have been shared. Of course, one thing that may be ultimately different is the steel used in both processing plants.
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Hi Vern:
I guess that's why I am a Glock man myself! Not many imitations.
If I had to compare the Med or Lab Grade Personnas, the closet I can find is the Israeli Reds. However, for some reason the Labs and Meds last longer for me and seem to be a tad smoother.
When I asked ASR and EMS about the med and lab grade blades I was told they were made by different divisions - but I did not ask if they were made in separate factories. At that time both were made, according to ASR, in the U.S.
I have found that I can use most blades without an issue. For me it's just a question of what performs best for me.
Do they perform the same? Most say yes; a few say no. Does the extra "santizing" process change them? Almost all say "no". But I guess I wonder why Personna makes a blade for use in hospitals, presumably on humans, and goes through an extra "santizing" process, whereas the blades meant for lab use, presumably not on humans, don't have that process. Of course it's likely no other blades have that process either, but still I wonder about this. What is that extra process? And why do they do it? And is it worth paying more for in some way?
+1 Yeah, what exactly is the Med target market and what is the Lab target market?
Med = shaving patients pre-surgery?
Lab = shaving other living things?
What frickin "additional process" nearly doubles the price of the Med over the Lab?
The "Lab" blades are marketed for sample preparation (cutting up biopsy material et cetera for testing and microscopic examination, I'd imagine). If the Meds undergo an extra step in manufacturing in order to meet hospital standards, that extra step will affect the cost. I bought 100 Meds before I ever heard of the labs (they're still cheaper than several other premium blades). Now that I've tried the Labs as well, during back-to-back weeks in the same razor, I can't tell the difference between them when it comes to shaving my face.
Here's the verbatim statement from the ASR Medical Division representative:
Most industries adopt minimum standards that their suppliers must meet. One can imagine that certain industries adopt fairly strict standards and, before a company can become a supplier, it must demonstrate that their product meets those standards. Even if the additional steps don't change the product's performance, it still must have that "seal of approval."
First of all, the "additional cleaning up" may or may not mean "additional sanitizing." Secondly, it gets that extra step because it's "required for hospital use." Thirdly, that extra process "does not change the way the blade shaves."
Most industries adopt minimum standards that their suppliers must meet. One can imagine that certain industries adopt fairly strict standards and, before a company can become a supplier, it must demonstrate that their product meets those standards. Even if the additional steps don't change the product's performance, it still must have that "seal of approval."
I understand that part. My question really relates to "safety", not how they work. In other words, hospitals expect they will be used on real live humans, not tissue samples, and they therefore require that they go through this extra step. I wonder then ... is this a step that would in some way make them safer to use on a real live face.
I'm still trying to visualize this "Lab" environment. Scientists using DE Razors on biopsy samples? Is there anyone familiar with the work environment where they use DE blades on something other than a live human? Or is it more of a shavette kind of instrument where the cut they DE blade in half?
When I first heard about the Meds/Labs I had the idea that these things must be the sharpest of the sharp since highly trained technicians and medical professionals would insist on nothing less and that humble DE shavers/hobbiest had stumbled on a product that, while not marketed to their community, surpassed the quality of the lowly comsumer grade blades that the unwashed masses mutilate themselves with on a daily basis.
I have tried both versions of the blades and while I was initially pleased, as I tried more blades looking for a Feather alternative, I was ultimately underwhelmed. The Feather continued to reign as a very noticiably sharper blade.
There is a post on this forum from a member that points out that the biggest driver in a health care organization's purchasing of medical consumables, like blades, is COST and that the idea that there is some intolerance of lower quality blades or for that matter, cotton swabs , guaze pads, alcohol wipes, etc. is folly.
My sense is that the Med/Labs are blades with pretty much the same level of quality as MANY better "consumer grade" blades, but are marketed to the medical/lab markets, distributed by medical/supply companies, and in the case of the Med also meet some yet to be fully communicated health care standard that allows the blades to be "for hospital use". The aforementioned "cleaning up" process.
I REALLY wanted the Lab to blow away the Feather since it is such a better bargain and I wanted to be able to present myself as such a sophisticated shaver that I insisted on "medical grade" blades, but alas these blades didn't "make the cut". I'm still interested in understanding exactly how they are intended to be used in their med/lab environments though.
No, I do not think it is breaking the blade in half to use in a shavette. This link: http://www.personna.com/personna/blades/medical/detail/double-edge-prep-blades/ shows long single edge blades, THOSE one could also use for shaving your face with the straight razor shavette (hint hint). I would imagine a lab using something with a metal rib on top such as a SE blade or one of those other type of long blades before ending up breaking a blade in half.
I've shaved with a Feather and with the Personna Med Prep "For Hospital Use" and find them very similar for sharp. Where the Med Prep blade seems to shine, at least for me, was the number of shaves exceeded what the Feather would do. Thin and sharp for a large number of people with light whisker growth will work very well and for probably a few shaves. Heavier whiskers on some other folks though, will probably take it's toll on the super sharp edge of the Feather. To be sharp like that means there is not much at the very cutting edge for metal, and less means easier for bending and distorting. This may be where the Personna Med and Labs have the true advantage, in the fact that they are nearly as sharp, but ultimately stay that way for quite a bit longer, especially on heavy beards. It could be that the Personna Med/Lab blade has more heft through the bevel than the Feather. I have not measured one to see what variance of thickness exists between these two, Feather & Personna.
Also, even a puff of ozone air to sanitize the blade, "cleaning" up the possibility of any residue might be all that it takes to get a premium price out of the hospitals. When is the last time you saw the price difference between a band-aid you bought at the local Rx and one you were charged for from a hospital bill? A lot of it could be semantics. Hospitals get the best of what they use, and to have stamped on the blade "For Hospital Use" may have been enough to satisfy the hospital board.
So, I don't think that Med Personnas or any other blade (to date) has competition with the Feather out of Japan for sharp. But sharp comes at a cost of being very delicate on the cutting edge. Sometimes close counts in other things besides horseshoes and grenades.
I've shaved with a Feather and with the Personna Med Prep "For Hospital Use" and find them very similar for sharp. Where the Med Prep blade seems to shine, at least for me, was the number of shaves exceeded what the Feather would do. Thin and sharp for a large number of people with light whisker growth will work very well and for probably a few shaves. Heavier whiskers on some other folks though, will probably take it's toll on the super sharp edge of the Feather. To be sharp like that means there is not much at the very cutting edge for metal, and less means easier for bending and distorting. This may be where the Personna Med and Labs have the true advantage, in the fact that they are nearly as sharp, but ultimately stay that way for quite a bit longer, especially on heavy beards. It could be that the Personna Med/Lab blade has more heft through the bevel than the Feather. I have not measured one to see what variance of thickness exists between these two, Feather & Personna.
Also, even a puff of ozone air to sanitize the blade, "cleaning" up the possibility of any residue might be all that it takes to get a premium price out of the hospitals. When is the last time you saw the price difference between a band-aid you bought at the local Rx and one you were charged for from a hospital bill? A lot of it could be semantics. Hospitals get the best of what they use, and to have stamped on the blade "For Hospital Use" may have been enough to satisfy the hospital board.
So, I don't think that Med Personnas or any other blade (to date) has competition with the Feather out of Japan for sharp. But sharp comes at a cost of being very delicate on the cutting edge. Sometimes close counts in other things besides horseshoes and grenades.
Determined to use an American blade, I stumbled on Personna by way of their ShopRite-branded 10 pack. Then I read about these and figured they must be the best available American blade and ordered 100 from Robbins Instruments.
Wow.
EJ DE89L + Personna Medical is just about perfect for me. I'll try the labs at some point and if they perform like these, as everyone seems to have already confirmed, save a few bucks on a year's supply.
Thanks again B&B!
Wow.
EJ DE89L + Personna Medical is just about perfect for me. I'll try the labs at some point and if they perform like these, as everyone seems to have already confirmed, save a few bucks on a year's supply.
Thanks again B&B!
Had my second shave ever with a Personna Hospital Use (not sure which one you call it) today. Used my 89L and lathered with Trumper rose soap. Did not get a heavy lather, so cushion was probably not high. Nonetheless, the shave was harsh, especially on the first wtg pass. Did three passes plus buffed. Got a solid dfs, bording on bbs except on my chin. After two hours, the shave feels closer still and the stubble on the chin is less noticeable. But my face still has a light burning sensation. Any thoughts?
Not too many folks get irritation from Personna Meds. Perhaps the less-than-ideal lather you mentioned could have contributed. Give 'em a few more tries before writing them off.
I certainly will try it a few more times. Only reason I mentioned the lather is that I found when I used TOBS sandalwood cream and got a thick cushion, then put a new Yellow into my SuperSpeed I found it cut down on the harshness I always get from the Yellow on the first shave. However, the type of lather I created this morning has never been a problem with Blues, SIs, Blacks or Rubies. So the lather was the only thing I could think of except the blade.
I use Van DerHagen shaving soap from Walmart. Price is right. Soap has Aloe Vera and Shea Butter in it and it goes on luxuriant smooth and creamy. Better shaving soap than the Col. Conk or my Ogallala Bay Rum soaps. Really is a wonderful soap for the cost.
Confused! Looking at Robbins from page 1 of this thread, Personna Med Prep blades are $55 for 250. Looking at EMS for Personna somethings (hospital use), those blades are $44 for 250. Are these the same blades? What I tried said "hospital use".
Jim, this is the place I am referring to. http://http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/products/preparation/blades.aspx The wrappers are blue, like the "Meds" but the picture doesn't expand so that I can actually read what is on the blade. Does that help?
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These are the lab grade blades. See my review in the blade review section of B&B.
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