Maybe getting my first straight razor. What about japanese style?

[snupy]

TL;DR what are the advantages and disadvantages of Japanese style (fixed handle) vs folding handle? Thinking of starting with the Japanese type since I once tried a shavette and was put off by the handle moving. Bad idea? Suggestions for models?

***

So, I have been thinking about getting in this world for a while.

I always wet shave, using shaving soap and a brush. Until recently with cheap disposable razors with as few blades as I could get. Recently I got myself a double edge safety razor, the Mercury 34c. Used it a few times, the transition was trivial, if anything it's easier than the disposable ones. The results are not impressive though, at least with the blade it came with the shave is less deep than with disposable ones.

I am thinking of getting in the world of straight razors. However I bought a shavette once, tried using it once and was very annoyed by the fact that the handle was not fixed. It seemed that it would have taken a lot of time to learn so I just put it away and never used it again - in fact I gave it away. Now I understand there is going to be some learning curve. However since apparently it was the moving handle that annoyed me so much I was wondering if going the Japanese style, fixed handle, could be better for me.

Is it a bad idea? What are the main differences between the two styles? If it is not a bad idea, what are some suggestions for models? Beginner friendly to an extent, but I tend to be put off by things looking cheap or clearly being there only to transition into something better soon.

That is probably the reason I am thinking of a "true" straight razor rather than shavette this time as the latter does not feel like the real thing. Happy to listen to advice to do otherwise though.

Thanks!

 

[J B Addis]

What's your grip like? With most traditional straight razor methods, the scales aren't used as a handle at all, making the movement more or less irrelevant, so it's possible just changing your grip could solve the problem. That said, Japanese razors, more commonly called kamisori, are great, and I doubt you'd regret getting one.

In terms of differences: They don't have an integral folding sheath like western straights, so they require much greater care in handling and storage. The honing is slightly different, but not as esoteric as some might describe it. The edge is shorter, which I haven't found to make a difference in use, but some find it handier. The grind on a kamisori is necessarily more of a wedge or quarter hollow weight, which not everyone prefers. Most kamisori available are vintage used or NOS blades, which will require a little more knowledge to properly judge for condition before buying. Some reputable places occasionally sell refurbished and honed kamisori, however, which would eliminate most of that uncertainty for a beginner. New production Iwasaki kamisori are sometimes available, and while I've never had one myself, I believe it's fair to say that their high quality is indisputable, but they're not inexpensive.

 

[SammieM]

I agree with the post above. Japanese blades are good but require more care. Also using it traditionally with the flatter side “omote” against the skin is a bit awkward, but doable. They were initially designed to shave another person and not oneself. You can find symmetrically ground razors that are without a handle. Most are custom made, but occasionally you can find a Japanese one. Either way, it is all enjoyable, be it kamisori or western style straight razor… Good luck!

 

[alex1921]

Fixed handle - kamisori. Japanese vs western? Personally I prefer western, symmetrical grind. Down side for me of these blades, the edge isnt protected so I always have to be careful. How do you store them? I started making padding in boxes for them. So while they are fun I find them to be a bit of a hassle.

Another thing I dislike about the smaller kamisoris, I find the spine to be too thin for a nice grip. Iwasaki included.

At the end of the day you have to try and see what fits you

 

[snupy]

Thanks everyone for the advice! With the shavette, I was aware you don't really hold it by the handle, but it seemed to be in the way. Probably I could have got used to it but oh well...

I made the jump and ordered this, a vintage kamisori, Japanese grind, waiting for it to arrive

The seller seemed very reputable and professional, with very good reviews. However if anyone notices something very wrong with the object or its price please tell me, etsy guarantees returns within a certain time period.

(aside from the fact that buying an expensive first straight razor may be considered unwise even if the object is good, something I do not disagree with but I was feeling like treating myself)

 

[StillShaving]

While you can be successful with only one new expensive razor, you might want something inexpensive to learn on in addition. As you learn to shave, strop, and touch-up sharpening.

A shavette can be helpful to learn on, even if you don't like how they look or their form factor. When gripping a western style folding razor it easiest to ignore the scales as best you can, flipping then out of the way as you change grips. While a kamisori handle can be less distracting as you learn,, you might find that you appreciate the blade storage that a folder provides.

 

[GNR]

Congrats on buying your first straight razor.

I’m really new to straight razors so I don’t have a ton of advice except for this…

Go on the Bay or similar and find an inexpensive Kamisori to learn to hone/sharpen and strop with.

You don’t want to make all of your newbie mistakes on a Tamahagane Steel Kamisori.

I found some nice and not inexpensive straight razors that I love. But I’m learning all of my honing on beat up razors that I got cheap. It’s also cool when you shave with something you put an edge on.

Have fun.

 

[marz1]

Hi Snupy, I may be able to provide some insight on this since I was in a similar position to you when deciding on how to start with straights.

I ended up buying an Iwasaki kamisori as my first straight and this was soon followed by a Ralf Aust 5/8 as I was travelling soon and wanted something a bit less expensive to take with me.
I have about 60-70 shaves under my belt and the first 30 were with the kamisori with the latter being with the Ralf Aust. So keep in mind I’m still a beginner relatively speaking.

Starting with the kamisori had some learning curve to it! Nicks and cuts weren’t really an issue as I took my time but there was a lot of irritation and poor shaves in the first week as I got my technique down. If going to work, I would keep a DE handy if I needed to look presentable and the irritation got too much for another pass. The great thing about it was that it allowed me to try lots of different grips due to the handle design and learn stropping in a fool proof way on a paddle strop.
The 5/8 straight has felt very different to the kamisori. In terms of grip I didn’t notice too much of an inconvenience, if you swing the handle around according to what stroke you’re doing it works out quite well. I did notice a huge difference in how forgiving the razor was to my poor technique. The hollow ground blade is far more flexible and shaped itself to the contours of my face much easier than the stiffer blade of the kamisori. I noticed this in the first shave I had with the 5/8, but of course YMMV and it’s possible my technique is intuitively more suited to the straight.
Having said that I’ve got irritation free close shaves from both, so it’s certainly possible for a beginner with the right technique.

I had a look at the link, it looks great and maybe some more experienced members could advise on the particulars of hone wear on it. I would definitely get a honemeister to get it shave ready, I assume the seller doesn’t sell it in true shave ready condition?

 

[snupy]

Thanks! Learning to shave and hone on a cheaper one is very sensible advice. So now I have to also buy something else, darn that's so terrible.

The seller claims it is in shave ready condition, wether that's actually true or not is a different matter.

A few questions on maintenance (I read other posts but let's see if I've got things right)

- assuming a kamisori is shave ready and I don't so anything stupid with it, I would need to sharpen it only about once or twice per year right? If I am trying to do that myself I would only need a 10.000 or 12.000 grit stone?

- If a razor is not shave ready but not in terrible conditions I would also need something like a 6000 grit, so one 6000 and one 12000 could be a basic starter set? (emphasis on basic, I get the impression it can become as refined and involved as one likes)

- you strop before each shave. Stropping unlike sharpening is same number of passes on each side? What's a reasonable number, 5 per side?

- Stropping before each shave, drying it and putting some camelia oil after each save. Is there anything else as far as regular maintenance goes?

 

[marz1]

Thanks! Learning to shave and hone on a cheaper one is very sensible advice. So now I have to also buy something else, darn that's so terrible.

The seller claims it is in shave ready condition, wether that's actually true or not is a different matter.

A few questions on maintenance (I read other posts but let's see if I've got things right)

- assuming a kamisori is shave ready and I don't so anything stupid with it, I would need to sharpen it only about once or twice per year right? If I am trying to do that myself I would only need a 10.000 or 12.000 grit stone?

- If a razor is not shave ready but not in terrible conditions I would also need something like a 6000 grit, so one 6000 and one 12000 could be a basic starter set? (emphasis on basic, I get the impression it can become as refined and involved as one likes)

- you strop before each shave. Stropping unlike sharpening is same number of passes on each side? What's a reasonable number, 5 per side?

- Stropping before each shave, drying it and putting some camelia oil after each save. Is there anything else as far as regular maintenance goes?

I believe the amount you need to sharpen/touch up the edge depends on your technique, the coarseness of your beard, pre shave prep etc. So it can vary from person to person. A naniwa 12k would suffice for a touch up, but an acrylic block with lapping film could work as well. Or get a natural finisher if you want a comfortable edge. Plenty of rabbit holes to go down, just visit the honing forum!

It’s generally recommended that one always have a reference shave ready edge before they try honing. If you still want to have a go I’ve heard that a 1k bevel setter, 4k, 8k and then 10k/12k is a good basic progression but again I would defer to the experts in the honing forum. Lots of information on the topic if you use the search bar.

When stropping I aim do at least 40 laps (one stroke away from you + one stroke towards you) on linen and leather, but if I’m honest I don’t really keep count. Sometimes I find myself stropping away for 5-10minutes! I do most of my stropping in the evening and then do a quick strop on leather before the shave.

I think you’ve got it covered as far as regular maintenance goes. Thorough drying is the most important step for me post-shave, I don’t tend to oil my razors unless I won’t be using them for a few days. That may vary for you depending on where you live and where you store your razors in terms of humidity.

 

[nicepatina]

Hi Snupy, I may be able to provide some insight on this since I was in a similar position to you when deciding on how to start with straights.

I ended up buying an Iwasaki kamisori as my first straight and this was soon followed by a Ralf Aust 5/8 as I was travelling soon and wanted something a bit less expensive to take with me.
I have about 60-70 shaves under my belt and the first 30 were with the kamisori with the latter being with the Ralf Aust. So keep in mind I’m still a beginner relatively speaking.

Starting with the kamisori had some learning curve to it! Nicks and cuts weren’t really an issue as I took my time but there was a lot of irritation and poor shaves in the first week as I got my technique down. If going to work, I would keep a DE handy if I needed to look presentable and the irritation got too much for another pass. The great thing about it was that it allowed me to try lots of different grips due to the handle design and learn stropping in a fool proof way on a paddle strop.
The 5/8 straight has felt very different to the kamisori. In terms of grip I didn’t notice too much of an inconvenience, if you swing the handle around according to what stroke you’re doing it works out quite well. I did notice a huge difference in how forgiving the razor was to my poor technique. The hollow ground blade is far more flexible and shaped itself to the contours of my face much easier than the stiffer blade of the kamisori. I noticed this in the first shave I had with the 5/8, but of course YMMV and it’s possible my technique is intuitively more suited to the straight.
Having said that I’ve got irritation free close shaves from both, so it’s certainly possible for a beginner with the right technique.

I had a look at the link, it looks great and maybe some more experienced members could advise on the particulars of hone wear on it. I would definitely get a honemeister to get it shave ready, I assume the seller doesn’t sell it in true shave ready condition?

Wow, my 1st razor was a 5/8 Ralf Aust, then my 2nd one was an Iwasaki kamisori. Our razor journey is in reverse lol! So far, between the 2, I do enjoy the thing hollow edge and feedback of the Ralf, but I am liking the shorter edge of the kamisori. I think my next razor may have to be a dovo barbarossa.

 

[marz1]

Wow, my 1st razor was a 5/8 Ralf Aust, then my 2nd one was an Iwasaki kamisori. Our razor journey is in reverse lol! So far, between the 2, I do enjoy the thing hollow edge and feedback of the Ralf, but I am liking the shorter edge of the kamisori. I think my next razor may have to be a dovo barbarossa.

I think our journey is indeed running in reverse parallel!
It’s funny you mention that, I was recently eyeing a Dovo as well, although in my case it was a Bergischer Lowe! Between the RA and the Iwasaki (and a set of shaptons) I think I have spent enough on straights for at least a year or two! Or so I say…
In any case I hope to have at least 200-300 SR shaves before I buy another straight

Also, not to be an alarmist, but I noticed from your display picture that your Iwasaki has rattan wrap on its handle. I noticed mine had gotten quite wet when shaving with it, most likely due to me still figuring out my technique with water and lather going everywhere. I began to get worried about damp underneath the wrap so I (reluctantly) removed it and sure enough, there was rust but thankfully no serious pitting. I removed it by sanding lightly with very fine sandpaper and have kept it unwrapped since. Not that I know how to tie a rattan wrap anyway. Don’t mean to worry you, you may find you keep the rattan handle wrap quite dry in which case my above experience shouldn’t really be too concerning for you. I thought I’d mention it as rust certainly doesn’t count as “nice patina”.

 

[nicepatina]

I think our journey is indeed running in reverse parallel!
It’s funny you mention that, I was recently eyeing a Dovo as well, although in my case it was a Bergischer Lowe! Between the RA and the Iwasaki (and a set of shaptons) I think I have spent enough on straights for at least a year or two! Or so I say…
In any case I hope to have at least 200-300 SR shaves before I buy another straight

Also, not to be an alarmist, but I noticed from your display picture that your Iwasaki has rattan wrap on its handle. I noticed mine had gotten quite wet when shaving with it, most likely due to me still figuring out my technique with water and lather going everywhere. I began to get worried about damp underneath the wrap so I (reluctantly) removed it and sure enough, there was rust but thankfully no serious pitting. I removed it by sanding lightly with very fine sandpaper and have kept it unwrapped since. Not that I know how to tie a rattan wrap anyway. Don’t mean to worry you, you may find you keep the rattan handle wrap quite dry in which case my above experience shouldn’t really be too concerning for you. I thought I’d mention it as rust certainly doesn’t count as “nice patina”.

That rattan wrap I did is now lacquered with cashew lacquer and i let it seep deep and the edge of that rattan wrap was lacquered too so NO water is getting between the rattan wrap and the handle. But I have created another problem, and that is one day, if I decide I want to take it off, I am not sure exactly how I am going to go about it lol.