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May be "over" the GD obsession

I only have 2 (dollar and a monkey) but I read about them constantly and had a list of all that I was planning to buy. Wanted to make a 7 day set of them (still may, who knows). Anyway I have been using them and nothing else for at least 2 months. Everyday. Posted a bit back about how I liked them better than my vintage SR. Another member said that suprused them.

Well today I honed all 3 razors. Just a little touch up for good measure. The vintage consistently tree topped more hairs and with less audible "ping". Hmmm. Put it back in the rotation tonight. Mind you I am quite pleased with the shave my GD's deliver. But that vintage seemed to stand out tonight. I wonder if it is the bevel angle that others speak of making it "sharper"? And if my added experience level from 2 months with the GD's made the vintage perform better than it had previously.

So I may be going down that road as opposed to the GD one. Hitting flea markets as opposed to aliexpress.

Or.... In the true Badger and Blade spirit...WHY NOT BOTH!

But in all seriousness, bevel angle making the difference you think?
 
For me, bevel angle does make a difference. It is a balance between edge "sharpness" and edge retention. Then throw the steel composition/hardness into the mix. After trying many variations in this mix, I am finding that what is best for me is a 16deg to 17deg bevel angle with around 16deg preferred for harder blades and about 17deg for normal high carbon steel blades. Of course others will have other preferences.

If considering bevel angle in your assessment, be sure that you are properly measuring it.
 
I have not measured. Just read that GD have the fatter angle. I attempted to measure once a while back. Got to the sin part or what ever. I remember that button on a calculator back in the days when fancy new calculators were bout as facinating as a computer. But I never learned how to use. I do not have said fancy claculator and gues I just really do not have enough desire to go about figuring it out.
 
I enjoy GDs for tooling around on the hones without the regard i have for the vintages. They are my quasi-beaters.

after seeing all of the models irl (more or less), i think i would still go with the 66s with the stabilizer.

i once had a desire to make a “nice-r” 7 day set from the 66s, and i guess i have (just not nice), and more, but i’m good just getting my honing jones fed.
 
I have not measured. Just read that GD have the fatter angle. I attempted to measure once a while back. Got to the sin part or what ever. I remember that button on a calculator back in the days when fancy new calculators were bout as facinating as a computer. But I never learned how to use. I do not have said fancy claculator and gues I just really do not have enough desire to go about figuring it out.
 
Better is better and it is hard not to notice when comparing.

They are priced about right. Wish there were more inexpensive but maybe better quality razors out there.
 
I only have 2 (dollar and a monkey) but I read about them constantly and had a list of all that I was planning to buy. Wanted to make a 7 day set of them (still may, who knows). Anyway I have been using them and nothing else for at least 2 months. Everyday. Posted a bit back about how I liked them better than my vintage SR. Another member said that suprused them.

Well today I honed all 3 razors. Just a little touch up for good measure. The vintage consistently tree topped more hairs and with less audible "ping". Hmmm. Put it back in the rotation tonight. Mind you I am quite pleased with the shave my GD's deliver. But that vintage seemed to stand out tonight. I wonder if it is the bevel angle that others speak of making it "sharper"? And if my added experience level from 2 months with the GD's made the vintage perform better than it had previously.

So I may be going down that road as opposed to the GD one. Hitting flea markets as opposed to aliexpress.

Or.... In the true Badger and Blade spirit...WHY NOT BOTH!

But in all seriousness, bevel angle making the difference you think?
No surprise, to me. A GOOD vintage with a bevel angle in the sweet spot is generally capable of being honed head to head with a GD and coming out sharper, as a general rule. My absolute sharpest edges have all been on vintage razors, or my Prima Klang, or a HEAVILY MODIFIED Gold Dollar. The reason you were so happy with your Gold Dollar edges is that they were honed to more exacting standards than what is typical. Applying the same techniques to a nice 16 degree vintage razor will quite naturally amaze you the first time even if you are already used to the finest of GD edges.

Benefits of going with vintage include generally higher quality, more acute bevel angle, simpler honing, nicer looking, better scales and pinning, expert grinding, maybe better steel, greater pride of ownership, historical and cultural vibes, greater variety, and I am sure there are others. Benefits of Gold Dollars are extreme low cost, plentiful supply, simple identical replacement, expendable, ease of putting together a matching set, and a spirit of rebellion against the hoi polloi with their better than you attitude and pedigreed shaving equipment. It's all good. TBH if I won the powerball tomorrow and had an unlimited razor budget, I would probably commission my own private bespoke model and have several dozen made, disregarding cost, and give all my Gold Dollars away to my faithful GD/Method disciples. But, as a man of modest means who already has "too many" (sez Mrs. McCoy) nicer razors, I still have a place for Gold Dollars for my personal use.

For best performance, select your vintages carefully, avoiding those that have been badly or heavily honed. Look for nice full width blades, straight edges with nice new looking toes and heels, no signs of honing on the shoulder, and moderate wear to the spine.

So yeah, mostly the difference is probably bevel angle, and sure, why NOT both?

It's not too early to think about ordering a dozen now, so you are all set for the annual modding competition. Just sayin. You will destroy at least a couple, and you will try stuff that doesn't work, and you will give away a couple. GD modding can be a cruelly compelling rabbit hole.
 
I have not measured. Just read that GD have the fatter angle. I attempted to measure once a while back. Got to the sin part or what ever. I remember that button on a calculator back in the days when fancy new calculators were bout as facinating as a computer. But I never learned how to use. I do not have said fancy claculator and gues I just really do not have enough desire to go about figuring it out.
Don't believe everything that you read, even on B&B. Some GD SR's can have quite acute bevel angles and others can be obtuse. The bevel angles on GD SR's can vary quite a lot, even within the same GD models.
 
Don't believe everything that you read, even on B&B. Some GD SR's can have quite acute bevel angles and others can be obtuse. The bevel angles on GD SR's can vary quite a lot, even within the same GD models.
OP's two razors are a Gold Monkey 666 and I think a GD208. Pretty safe bet that they are both between about 17.7 and 18 degrees. If his vintage is down around 16.0 the difference will be noticeable, and if the edge bevel's contact area is very narrow, even more so.
 
OP's two razors are a Gold Monkey 666 and I think a GD208. Pretty safe bet that they are both between about 17.7 and 18 degrees. If his vintage is down around 16.0 the difference will be noticeable, and if the edge bevel's contact area is very narrow, even more so.
Monkey 666 and a Dollar 66. I shake like a dog crappin peach seeds and do not have camera equipment or skills. But maybe you can kinda tell from the pic that the "contact" portion of the bevel is seemingly pretty small.
 

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Monkey 666 and a Dollar 66. I shake like a dog crappin peach seeds and do not have camera equipment or skills. But maybe you can kinda tell from the pic that the "contact" portion of the bevel is seemingly pretty small.
I enjoy tinkering with a GD and getting around the issues it presents. At the price, it's no big loss when you get it wrong and have to dump it. Vintage razors are different and when I get it wrong and ruin one, I feel bad. It's not the loss of money that upsets me most, it's the fact that you have destroyed a part of history.

That looks like a very nice straight blade that was honed skilfully. Should shave like a dream :thumbup1:
 
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I can get a Gold Dollar/Gold Monkey to shave as well as most vintage razors most of the time. I have yet to get one to equal a Filarmonica, well-ground Swedish, Japanese, or French. I use Japanese natural stones to finish and I have less experience with German and English razors.

I’m guessing that it is both bevel angle and steel quality. Some of the old cast steels would show a very straight, even edge at 500 grit, where some modern steels still looked a bit ragged at 8k. Some steel is very fine-grained I believe that this also makes a difference.

So here are some ideas why a GD/GM may not stand up with the best of the best:

Bevel angle coupled with steel grain.
Steel grain, IOW the ability to take a better edge off the same finisher.
Geometry - some GD/GD can be quite difficult to hone the entire edge equally, at least without remanufacturing them
Grinding - IOW thinness at the edge - GD/GM are ‘fat’ or thick at/just behind the bevel, the best shaving Japanese, Swedish, French, and Fillys are anything but fat at the edge, they’re extremely thin even if 1/4 hollow.
Honing skill - you need to have a certain amount of honing skill to tell the difference - if both are honed poorly, there won’t e any noticeable difference in performance.

Obviously, a manufacturer is not going to correct most of the above and still sell razors in bulk for $2.50-3.50.

I have a lot of GD/GM, I use them mostly for testing stones when I need identical razors, or for international travel and gifts. When you travel (yeah, what’s that?) and are meeting fellow SR folks, a GD/GM with a great jnat edge makes a very nice present. One should not expect them to shave as well as the best razors; they’re good for what they are, but what they are not is a fine grained, finely ground, consistently shaped blade.
 
I enjoy tinkering with a GD and getting around the issues it presents. At the price, it's no big loss when you get it wrong and have to dump it. Vintage razors are different and when I get it wrong and ruin one, I feel bad. It's not the loss of money that upsets me most, it's the fact that you have destroyed a part of history.

That looks like a very nice straight blade that was honed skilfully. Should shave like a dream :thumbup1:
It does. I sort of like the heft of the GD razors. Vintage feels much more delicate and dainty. But it does deliver.
 
I can get a Gold Dollar/Gold Monkey to shave as well as most vintage razors most of the time. I have yet to get one to equal a Filarmonica, well-ground Swedish, Japanese, or French. I use Japanese natural stones to finish and I have less experience with German and English razors.

I’m guessing that it is both bevel angle and steel quality. Some of the old cast steels would show a very straight, even edge at 500 grit, where some modern steels still looked a bit ragged at 8k. Some steel is very fine-grained I believe that this also makes a difference.

So here are some ideas why a GD/GM may not stand up with the best of the best:

Bevel angle coupled with steel grain.
Steel grain, IOW the ability to take a better edge off the same finisher.
Geometry - some GD/GD can be quite difficult to hone the entire edge equally, at least without remanufacturing them
Grinding - IOW thinness at the edge - GD/GM are ‘fat’ or thick at/just behind the bevel, the best shaving Japanese, Swedish, French, and Fillys are anything but fat at the edge, they’re extremely thin even if 1/4 hollow.
Honing skill - you need to have a certain amount of honing skill to tell the difference - if both are honed poorly, there won’t e any noticeable difference in performance.

Obviously, a manufacturer is not going to correct most of the above and still sell razors in bulk for $2.50-3.50.

I have a lot of GD/GM, I use them mostly for testing stones when I need identical razors, or for international travel and gifts. When you travel (yeah, what’s that?) and are meeting fellow SR folks, a GD/GM with a great jnat edge makes a very nice present. One should not expect them to shave as well as the best razors; they’re good for what they are, but what they are not is a fine grained, finely ground, consistently shaped blade.
I was sort of just posting to post and splitting hairs so to speak. The GD razors I have are more than functional and I enjoy thwm as well
 
I have a GD coming any day and am quite looking forward to getting something new. My modest collection are all vintage of vastly varying sizes and shapes. Looking forward to taking a basic 6/8 to the stones, see what I get.
 
I have a GD coming any day and am quite looking forward to getting something new. My modest collection are all vintage of vastly varying sizes and shapes. Looking forward to taking a basic 6/8 to the stones, see what I get.
I think most are happy with them. Comparing to DE experimenting, the cheap GD is a safer bet than alot of the cheap DE. Let us know what ya think. I doubt you will be disappointed. Save maybe the quality of the scales :)
 
It does. I sort of like the heft of the GD razors. Vintage feels much more delicate and dainty. But it does deliver.
if you are getting 5/8s or smaller vintage full hollows, i agree. If you are getting 6/8s+ 1/4 hollow vintages you would feel their heft and think the GDs were light
 
I was sort of just posting to post and splitting hairs so to speak. The GD razors I have are more than functional and I enjoy thwm as well
I enjoy them too, but shaving with a factory one is not very enjoyable. That isn’t because of the blade BTW, the scales are really poor. If you have a ‘donor’ razor that you can cannibalize some decent scales from, you will be simply amazed at the improvement.

These are scaled with old Dovo wooden scales, themselves pretty poor and no where near good vintage scales, but the improvement in handling is startling.

324464E0-20D8-4012-8ED9-6F7EA6552626.jpeg
 
if you are getting 5/8s or smaller vintage full hollows, i agree. If you are getting 6/8s+ 1/4 hollow vintages you would feel their heft and think the GDs were light
I would ventur to guess my vintage may be 4/8. It is very small. Never measured. I look forward to getting a larger vintage.

Does uaing 1/8's when the fraction can be reduced bug anyone else? Or is it just me?
 
I enjoy them too, but shaving with a factory one is not very enjoyable. That isn’t because of the blade BTW, the scales are really poor. If you have a ‘donor’ razor that you can cannibalize some decent scales from, you will be simply amazed at the improvement.

These are scaled with old Dovo wooden scales, themselves pretty poor and no where near good vintage scales, but the improvement in handling is startling.

View attachment 1190135
Those look great. I look forward to some donor scales and have plans of making a set as well. I seen 1 guy mention bowling ball. Thought that might be interesting.
 
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