Making Segal Blades

Discussion in 'Double Edged Razors' started by Chan Eil Whiskers, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Chan Eil Whiskers

    Chan Eil Whiskers Contributor

    There's gotta be a better way...

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    Today I received a very nice Segal razor + an excellent Schaeffer razor.

    They have a lot in common; I've read the Schaeffer was made by Segal, or licensed by Segal, or is a Segal clone. In any case, they use the same blade.

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    One of my razors came with an actual Segal branded blade. You can see in the photo how the blade has to fit around a raised area, so there is a large central cavity in the Segal blade.

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    I've read the various threads and such on the internet about how to convert an ordinary DE blade into a Segal clone blade.

    It involves putting a regular DE blade into a holder (such as the cap of a Gillette NEW), and placing a Segal blade over it. Then the outline of the Segal blade's interior hole can be traced onto the ordinary DE blade with a fine tipped sharpie.

    Following this, one uses cuticle scissors (curved) to cut slightly outside of the drawn line on the DE blade.

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    Simple, right?

    In theory this is easy enough.

    In practice it's not so easy. I managed to make three Segal clone blades. None were 100% large enough in their opening because I didn't quite cut outside of the lines, but all of them work in a kinda sorta way. I used new and very high quality cuticle scissors, but the scissors had a hard time of it.

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    I kept think there's got to be a better way.

    I've read everything I can find on the subject and better ways have been proposed, but has anybody actually come up with a working method of making the blades without cutting them with cuticle scissors.

    upload_2018-6-14_17-46-0.jpeg

    I'll get better with some practice.

    Yes, that's got to be the truth. I don't mind sacrificing some blades to achieve a more skilled hand at this, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

    I've not used either of my razors yet but I've read they're good shavers and worth the trouble.

    Anybody solve the problem and have a solution to share.

    Happy shaves,

    Jim
     
  2. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    Jim some time ago (YEARS) I stated someone with the know how needs to make a metal stamp we can get and use for this purpose. I ain't got the needed skillz
     
  3. Chan Eil Whiskers

    Chan Eil Whiskers Contributor

    I read your post, Dave, or somebody's to that effect. I was hoping somebody with the requisite skills had gotten interested and involved. I suspect it would be easy enough for guys who work in that area, but I'm not one of them.

    Do you make your own blades? If so, anything better than cuticle scissors for the cutting?

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  4. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    I'm embarrassed to admit my attention got diverted before I could attem.....................................Oh look squirrel

    You do have me interested again but I was going to try the scissors and doesn't sound like as easy as others have said from what you've said.
     
  5. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    Keep in mind the hole can be over sized as long as the 4 points of contact aren't compromised so the razor will hold it securely.
     
  6. Can you find original blades online unused ?
     
  7. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    Yes they are pricey and I don't know of the quality. I sold 1 or 2 with a razor I sold years ago. Have another now from my father in law to try when I make a blade.
     
  8. Chan Eil Whiskers

    Chan Eil Whiskers Contributor

    Yes, I see that. Thanks.

    You cut with cuticle scissors?
     
  9. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    Not yet but that's my plan or was
     
  10. Highspeedlane

    Highspeedlane Contributor

    Yes. Though the original blade fits closely to the molding of the base plate, the "tabs" on either end of the blade still keep the blade positioned relative to where it should be.

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    It's an imprecise science @Chan Eil Whiskers but that is what I did the last time. The first time I cut out the center I did what you did, and it makes for a tight fit (not ideal). Later I concentrated on making my cut remove the drawn line and I believe that's the best route.

    My bigger concern is that with .004" blades (everything made today), the TTO does not close as tightly as it does on original blades, but it still is serviceable IMHO. Tomorrow morning I'm going to shave with a Segal blade, but later in the week I'm going to try cutting a new and make some comparisons. If I were to shim a cut blade with another blade to compensate for today's .004" blades, my fear is it would be too tight.

    It would be fantastic if there were modern made blades for this razor :)
     
  11. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    So would a vintage Gillette Thin blade be a good candidate to cut? Got boxes of them.
     
  12. Highspeedlane

    Highspeedlane Contributor

    Hey Dave.

    That's possible. I've not attempted such yet but so long as the cuticle scissors have enough muscle I would think it would slice through the thicker blade. There is a definite difference in the tension of the TTO knob with the thinner blade and I want to make sure the thinner blade clamps tightly enough to grip the blade securely. It's been a long while since I last used it and I need to revisit that.
     
  13. Dave in KY

    Dave in KY Contributor

    Thought maybe the Gillette Thin blade would be thinner. I must have misunderstood your concern on clamping down. Thinner current blades is the concern. Got it
     
  14. Highspeedlane

    Highspeedlane Contributor

    Yes that's it. I do remember using a Gillette Silver Blue last time and I believe it was fine, just felt the TTO knob wasn't as "snug" as it would be on a .006" (the original Segal thickness) blade. I believe Troy here is using a cut blade in his and has racked up numerous shaves on it.

    With all the exposure I've had to other razors since the last time I used the Segal, I'm really looking forward to giving it a much more knowledgeable assessment tomorrow morning :thumbsup:
     
  15. Chan Eil Whiskers

    Chan Eil Whiskers Contributor

    Thanks, Lane.

    I'd not really considered the tightness of the razor in terms of clamping down on the blade, but obviously I should.

    It's very apparent that these are finely and well made razors. Made by locksmiths it might be expected. I'm sure they were designed for a particular blade (their blade) with a known thickness. They didn't have in mind anyone using modified modern thin blades, nor did they have in mind accommodation of two modified modern thin blades one being a shim.

    That said, it doesn't mean either wouldn't work. I'll send some time in the next few days looking at my two razors, making a few better blades, and seeing if my one vintage Segal blade seems to be clamped much differently from the modern blade I will make and from the modern blade + modern blade shim I'll make.

    I'll do that in any case, but I'd be interested to find out if it's already been done.

    I was surprised how poorly the cuticle scissors I used (new and very high quality; don't tell my wife) seemed to work. I have a pair of Revlon cuticle scissors on order. They are not the quality of mine (in theory) but they may work better. I would think there's a better cutting tool than scissors designed to cut soft human tissue.

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
  16. Highspeedlane

    Highspeedlane Contributor

    Hey Jim.

    I do remember getting a good shave the last time I had mine out with a cut blade but at that time my "reference library" of other DE's was not as extensive for comparison purposes, so I'm looking forward to getting this awesome razor back in action.

    At the time I didn't have a Segal blade but someone on the web had an image file of a Segal blade (exact lifesize) I was able to print and use as a template. The next time I cut a blade I just winged it by eye until it fit around the oval center base plate.

    I hear you about the cuticle scissors. I am going to have to go looking for mine, and knowing my memory, I'll probably have to end up getting a new pair unless I get really lucky :)
     
  17. Chan Eil Whiskers

    Chan Eil Whiskers Contributor

    I tried again. This time with a bit better results causing me to throw away the blades I'd hacked up previously. No great loss, but I should use blades I like less than Polsilver for practice, and will next time.

    My latest effort is far from perfect though. Still, it fits better than the first batch even though its hole is not quite large enough in a few little spots.

    I'm fairly certain I could do a much better job of it with a really sharp, more heavy duty pair of scissors similar to my cuticle scissors. The ones I'm using are not up to easily cutting the metal. That's quite clear.

    Cutting sharp razor blades which I'm holding in my hand is a job for sharp, strong scissors. Maybe I can find something better without spending a fortune. We'll see.

    Any ideas?

    Happy shaves,

    Jim
     
  18. Highspeedlane

    Highspeedlane Contributor

    You are exactly where I was the last time I tried cutting some. And like you say, getting the right cuticle scissors makes all the difference. I spent a few minutes digging around for the pair I previously used and as I suspected, have no idea where they are. If they never turn up I'll be looking for a pair that are sturdy (forged versus stamped blades) and provide good leverage during the cut. I'm still going to keep looking.
     
  19. This is a worthy project. I wish everyone success.
     
  20. Chan Eil Whiskers

    Chan Eil Whiskers Contributor

    These are some links I found looking around for a solution. Probably none are terribly useful, but maybe I'm wrong.

    This, or something similar, might be a better way of cutting the blades. Link.

    Parts of this are useful. More is interesting. Link.

    This is instructive. Link. Using curved tin snips. More here; link. A Wiss left cutting pair, too big I think; link.

    Cutting with various tools. Link. Interesting shears. Small, left cutting shears would maybe do the job.

    Happy shaves,

    Jim
     

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