Making Scales Was a Total Failure Today...

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

This is the outcome of two half days of scale making for new shorty blade.

Other than that it was a project which was coming along reasonably well. Slowly, but coming along.

I don't know that I did anything wrong, but I'll think about it.

It is not the end of the world. It doesn't even ruin my day. Still, you can imagine that I'm not a happy camper concerning this event.

The scales themselves were fine until suddenly they weren't.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[psfred]

Brittle materials and hammers can be a poor match, for sure.

Sorry you broke that scale, they look really nice.

I have a hundred or so pairs cut in various woods if you want a replacement....

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Brittle materials and hammers can be a poor match, for sure.

Sorry you broke that scale, they look really nice.

I have a hundred or so pairs cut in various woods if you want a replacement....

You are so kind.

These were custom shorty scales that broke.

I'll make some more. Maybe with wood or bone.

 

[global_dev]

the worst feeling outside of breaking a blade.

 

[eKretz]

Oof, sorry. Just warned someone else to watch how tight they peened the pins the other day to avoid cracking. Better to make a million gentle hits with the hammer than fewer harder ones, and check tension as you go.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Oof, sorry. Just warned someone else to watch how tight they peened the pins the other day to avoid cracking. Better to make a million gentle hits with the hammer than fewer harder ones, and check tension as you go.

Really good advice, that is...I'd like to say that was the problem but I'm not sure it was. My touch with the hammer was light. The tension had a ways to go.

Of course, I could be wrong. It's not like I have much experience or went to scale making or peening school.

I'm very new to scale making, having made only two sets of scales. I've gotten pretty good at tightening the loose scales which sometimes show up on my eBay specials, but that's not the same as peening from scratch.

Here are the scales before today's misadventure. The blade is a nice shorty. The Kirinite's a nice ivory pearl pattern, not just a simple white, but it doesn't show up well in the photo.

I take total responsibility for hosing it up. I know peening from scratch is not my strength, but I'm also not sure what exactly went wrong.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[GAW9576]

Sorry to see that. I spent several hours on a brush handle the other day and when I was nearly done I discovered that 1 even though visualy appealing it felt weard in the hand and 2 there was a crack in the wood. Not sure if it was always there but unnoticed or if it developmed while sanding heated the wood. Regardless I sat there thinking about how I might fix the 2 issues. But desided it wasn't worth the extra time in the end. Very frustrating but it happens. The next brush handle turned out beautiful. Hope your next set of scales turn out perfect.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Sorry to see that. I spent several hours on a brush handle the other day and when I was nearly done I discovered that 1 even though visualy appealing it felt weard in the hand and 2 there was a crack in the wood. Not sure if it was always there but unnoticed or if it developmed while sanding heated the wood. Regardless I sat there thinking about how I might fix the 2 issues. But desided it wasn't worth the extra time in the end. Very frustrating but it happens. The next brush handle turned out beautiful. Hope your next set of scales turn out perfect.

Thanks.

I'm glad you ended up with a beautiful brush handle. I've not tried anything related to brush making or restoration.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[GAW9576]

BTW I would try micarta scales or horn scales on that razor personally.

 

[alpster]

FWIW, I will hazard a guess that your pin was a little too long and trying to tighten the scales bent the pin in the middle and caused the fracture. Don't ask me how I recognize this scenario.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

FWIW, I will hazard a guess that your pin was a little too long and trying to tighten the scales bent the pin in the middle and caused the fracture. Don't ask me how I recognize this scenario.

I wouldn't want to bet against your guess.

 

[Schwabenchris]

Are you using plastic or telfon washers?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Are you using plastic or telfon washers?

The interior washers (pictured) are either plastic or teflon or something similar. I haven't examined them carefully, and am not sure I could tell exactly what they are if I did. They were part of a little kit I bought.

Ah, I checked the purchase I'd made on eBay. The washers are teflon. The price of the little kit has almost doubled since I purchased in November. Link.

What should the interior washers be made of?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Somerled]

This is the kit I buy.

All brass.
Less than half the price on your link.
But your washers are fancy.

 

[Schwabenchris]

What should the interior washers be made of?

Do I assume right that you tighten the pin more and more with the hammer because the blade was not very firm?/tight?(I am sorry, I can't think of another word) between the scales?

The interior washers should be made of something that has a high friction with both, your scales and the metal.

Extract from Friction and Friction Coefficients

Teflon - Steel 0.05 - 0.2
Steel - Steel 0.5 - 0.8
Brass - Steel 0.35

I use brass, but steel would be better when it comes to friction. An advantage of brass could be that it doesn't rust. When there are washers in old German straight razors, they are usually brass.

 

[sig303]

My guess would be that the pin was too long and that as you peened it bent and/or expanded inside the hole... maybe a little too much force on the strokes. Of course the material might just have been unforgiving. Another trick I use is I have a piece of bar steel with dimples of decreasing size within which I can place the opposite side pin/washer from the one being peened so that the scales absorb a minimum of shock. I also tape around the washers with masking tape which provides a very small amount of cushion and protection from errant peening blows. Lewis has some decent vids on scale-making and pinning/peening.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

This is the kit I buy.

View attachment 949154

All brass.
Less than half the price on your link.
But your washers are fancy.

I have that kit, too, or one very similar.

Thanks and happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Do I assume right that you tighten the pin more and more with the hammer because the blade was not very firm?/tight?(I am sorry, I can't think of another word) between the scales?

The interior washers should be made of something that has a high friction with both, your scales and the metal.

Extract from Friction and Friction Coefficients

Teflon - Steel 0.05 - 0.2
Steel - Steel 0.5 - 0.8
Brass - Steel 0.35

I use brass, but steel would be better when it comes to friction. An advantage of brass could be that it doesn't rust. When there are washers in old German straight razors, they are usually brass.

Brass sounds best as I read this and think of rust.

My guess would be that the pin was too long and that as you peened it bent and/or expanded inside the hole... maybe a little too much force on the strokes. Of course the material might just have been unforgiving. Another trick I use is I have a piece of bar steel with dimples of decreasing size within which I can place the opposite side pin/washer from the one being peened so that the scales absorb a minimum of shock. I also tape around the washers with masking tape which provides a very small amount of cushion and protection from errant peening blows. Lewis has some decent vids on scale-making and pinning/peening.

I've watched this video before (his videos are good).

It's not like I've not watched the standard available videos on pinning/peening. I've watched them and pondered the common elements involved, etc. Still, I feel like I'm fumbling about when I pin the razor, and believe I've not quite figured out some of the essential elements of successful pinning/peening.

Doug and I have been talking a bit about this stuff. He's trying to help me. Here's a post of mine, linked, which is valuable mostly for his comments quoted within the post and for the various videos embedded.

I'm going to watch peening and pinning videos and ponder the process and examine my tools and all that before I make another effort.

Thanks for the advice and comments.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Ice-Man]

My take on it Teflon has a lot of give in it, so without you knowing the peening was way to tight to hold the blade.
You need brass washers as spacers that way when you peen the pin it grips the blade, as Somerled posted above those kits are the same as I use. Plus I get my bulls eye washers from a seller in the states aswell, as living in the UK bits are hard to get so I buy bulk to help save on shipping cost.
(But a seller I use in the states he has buy it now with free shipping and cheaper.)

A bit of advise that was passed on to me when I started use a spoon to peen the pins, as hammers are way to harsh as a spoon 20 taps is equal to one tap of a hammer.

Yes I have made the same mistake more than once....

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

My take on it Teflon has a lot of give in it, so without you knowing the peening was way to tight to hold the blade.
You need brass washers as spacers that way when you peen the pin it grips the blade, as Somerled posted above those kits are the same as I use. Plus I get my bulls eye washers from a seller in the states aswell, as living in the UK bits are hard to get so I buy bulk to help save on shipping cost.
(But a seller I use in the states he has buy it now with free shipping and cheaper.)

A bit of advise that was passed on to me when I started use a spoon to peen the pins, as hammers are way to harsh as a spoon 20 taps is equal to one tap of a hammer.

Yes I have made the same mistake more than once....

Thanks. Good advice I think.

Happy shaves,

Jim