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Made in China!

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Some of the more "mature" members here may remember back into the 1950s and 60s when "Made in Japan" normally ment a cheap product of noticably inferior quality. During that period many manufacturers from more developed countries began moving there manufacturing to Japan due to then much cheaper overall labour costs.

With the transferring of manufacturing to Japan, manufacturers taught the Japanese how important it was to increase the quality of the products they were producing. Japan learnt from this and expanded the concept to where today their products are considered world class.

In the 1980s and 90s a similar situation occurred in South Korea and Taiwan.

I believe that we now have China (PRC) going through the same development that Japan experienced 40 to 50 years ago. I predict that in 10 or 20 years from now "Made in China" will become a mark of quality as "Made in Japan" is now.
 

oc_in_fw

Fridays are Fishtastic!
Some of the more "mature" members here may remember back into the 1950s and 60s when "Made in Japan" normally ment a cheap product of noticably inferior quality. During that period many manufacturers from more developed countries began moving there manufacturing to Japan due to then much cheaper overall labour costs.

With the transferring of manufacturing to Japan, manufacturers taught the Japanese how important it was to increase the quality of the products they were producing. Japan learnt from this and expanded the concept to where today their products are considered world class.

In the 1980s and 90s a similar situation occurred in South Korea and Taiwan.

I believe that we now have China (PRC) going through the same development that Japan experienced 40 to 50 years ago. I predict that in 10 or 20 years from now "Made in China" will become a mark of quality as "Made in Japan" is now.
It will happen. Hell, Korea is making decent cars. As China’s middle class grows, their workers will demand higher pay, then the major corporations will look for another country to supply slave labor
 

cleanshaved

I’m stumped
I don't think everything made in China at the moment is of poor quality but it appears the vast majority is.
A good amount of the blame lays with our demand for cheaper goods. Saving are not just made in labour cost but materials used and design. You want cheap, you'll get cheap but don't expect it to be good as well.

Will China be moving to better quality goods? I sure hope so.
If they don't, there seems to be a market for cheap goods and they have cornered the market at moment.
 
China has always made products to a price for the West. They can make quality as well as tat. Depends what you want to pay for it
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
China's workers are not paid slave labour rates. As an example, a tradesman like a welder or machine operator earns about USD 5 to 7 per hour. In the Philippines the same earn about USD 3 per hour.

The difference is in their efficiency, i.e. what they product per hour. I have found that the Chinese tradesman produces about 3 times as much per hour as their Filipino counterpart - at similar quality. That is why the Chinese are ahead of most other producers.

I remember a few years ago discussing cost of labour with a German tradesman. He was earning 3 times more than his counterpart in Australia, but he controlled 5 machines (via computer) compared to the Australian operating one.

Chinese quality is high now in some areas like electronics and areospace, and getting there in others like military equipment.
 
I think even if China does improve its manufacturing quality, it will still have a very hard time shedding the stigma surrounding the "Made in China" label. Mostly because we only started really caring about quality and taking note of poor working conditions in factories there within the past 20 or so years.

It's worth noting that eventually, we're going to run out of poor countries to have our cheap stuff made in, and since our modern Capitalism seems to depend on a steady supply of cheap throwaway goods, I wonder what will happen after that. Maybe by then, the West will be the poor countries where the rest of the world has its cheap goods made in!
 
My opinion:

With razors, quality generally follows price until it doesn't. After about $30, people are adding value for reasons besides longevity and shave quality.

Chinese stuff is fine.
 

oc_in_fw

Fridays are Fishtastic!
China's workers are not paid slave labour rates. As an example, a tradesman like a welder or machine operator earns about USD 5 to 7 per hour. In the Philippines the same earn about USD 3 per hour.

The difference is in their efficiency, i.e. what they product per hour. I have found that the Chinese tradesman produces about 3 times as much per hour as their Filipino counterpart - at similar quality. That is why the Chinese are ahead of most other producers.

I remember a few years ago discussing cost of labour with a German tradesman. He was earning 3 times more than his counterpart in Australia, but he controlled 5 machines (via computer) compared to the Australian operating one.

Chinese quality is high now in some areas like electronics and areospace, and getting there in others like military equipment.
They are worked like dogs. Companies that make tech gadgets (like phone and computer parts) have resorted to installing anti-suicide nets.
 
The Chinese culture is nothing like the Japanese or Korean cultures, and culture has a huge impact on the products produced by people. When rbscebu mentioned that outside manufacturers taught the Japanese that the quality of the products they were producing was important, that's actually very far from reality. The Japanese knew that for far longer than they have been involved in mass production. Quality, and pride in that quality, has been ingrained in the Japanese culture for a very long time.
 
Some of the more "mature" members here may remember back into the 1950s and 60s when "Made in Japan" normally ment a cheap product of noticably inferior quality. During that period many manufacturers from more developed countries began moving there manufacturing to Japan due to then much cheaper overall labour costs.

With the transferring of manufacturing to Japan, manufacturers taught the Japanese how important it was to increase the quality of the products they were producing. Japan learnt from this and expanded the concept to where today their products are considered world class.

In the 1980s and 90s a similar situation occurred in South Korea and Taiwan.

I believe that we now have China (PRC) going through the same development that Japan experienced 40 to 50 years ago. I predict that in 10 or 20 years from now "Made in China" will become a mark of quality as "Made in Japan" is now.
Sure I remember it well. The early transistor radios were all made in Japan as well as most electronic gadgets.
The Korean car industry is going to do to the Japanese what the Japanese car industry did to Detroit.
 

Doc4

Stumpy in cold weather
Staff member
“Made in Hong Kong” used to be right up there with “Made in Taiwan”. That was back when PRC was still basically keeping itself closed to the outside world.

I think even if China does improve its manufacturing quality, it will still have a very hard time shedding the stigma surrounding the "Made in China" label

If the quality is there the perception will follow. Japan did it, South Korea did it.

It's worth noting that eventually, we're going to run out of poor countries to have our cheap stuff made in, and since our modern Capitalism seems to depend on a steady supply of cheap throwaway goods, I wonder what will happen after that

“The poor are always with us.”

Wherever they are, the factories will follow. 100years ago there were plenty of them in NYC.

The Chinese culture is nothing like the Japanese or Korean cultures, and culture has a huge impact on the products produced by people. When rbscebu mentioned that outside manufacturers taught the Japanese that the quality of the products they were producing was important, that's actually very far from reality. The Japanese knew that for far longer than they have been involved in mass production. Quality, and pride in that quality, has been ingrained in the Japanese culture for a very long time.

Agree about the Japanese. Time will tell for the Chinese ...
 
I agree 100%. Like you said, Japanese made goods were once very cheap, so were Korean. How, made in Japan is synonomous with quality and Korea makes some of the best electronics and cars in the world.
As I often like to remind people, China once had the greatest society in the world when much of Europe was still running around in loin cloths. China has too much money, too many people and if they wanted to make the highest quality products in the world, they would.
 
Here’s a story that really illustrates the Japanese culture. When an internal combustion engine is designed, one of the more important decisions a designer must make involves the intake and exhaust valves. Like many of these decisions, there are a lot of trade-offs that must be considered. In the 1920s, experiments were carried out that had proven a small number of the largest diameter valves possible enabled an engine to run more efficiently and produce more power. Those experiments were accepted as the gospel on valve-train design for almost 50 years, and during that time, the entire world focused on developing engines with two large-diameter valves per cylinder. In the 1960s, the Japanese showed up on the motorcycle racing circuit with their newly designed engines. Low and behold, they all had a very large number of very small valves in their internal combustion engines. Exactly the opposite approach that had been proven correct in the 20s, and used by the entire world since then. The entire world laughed at the Japanese. Engine designers in Japan were stuck so far back in the dark ages that they hadn’t even heard about those British experiments that were the standard for almost 50 years. Then the races began, and the Japanese started winning. Consistently, and not by small margins. It turned out that the entire world was in the dark, and the Japanese were the enlightened ones. The Japanese ignored the earlier experiments and did their own which proved the early British experiments only applied at very low engine RPM. That was fine in the 1920s, but was completely wrong for the high RPM motorcycle engines that were common in the 1960s. The Japanese had proven that at high RPM, valve mass was much more important than flow efficiency. Even though a larger number of small valves doesn’t let an engine breath as efficiently, it reduced valve mass and that lets the designer spin the engine much faster. That increase in engine speed more than makes up for the reduction in flow efficiency and enables the engine to produce significantly more power. It took the rest of the world more than 20 years to catch up to Japanese valve-train design. Now, it’s pretty much standard that an engine will have multiple small valves per cylinder, but that is entirely due to Japanese innovation. This is one reason the Japanese make great quality products. Innovation is in their culture.
 
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shavefan

I’m not a fan
Here’s a story that really illustrates the Japanese culture. When an internal combustion engine is designed, one of the more important decisions a designer must make involves the intake and exhaust valves. Like many of these decisions, there are a lot of trade-offs that must be considered. In the 1920s, experiments were carried out that had proven a small number of the largest diameter valves possible enabled an engine to run more efficiently and produce more power. Those experiments were accepted as the gospel on valve-train design for almost 50 years, and during that time, the entire world focused on developing engines with two large-diameter valves per cylinder. In the 1960s, the Japanese showed up on the motorcycle racing circuit with their newly designed engines. Low and behold, they all had a very large number of very small valves in their internal combustion engines. Exactly the opposite approach that had been proven correct in the 20s, and used by the entire world since then. The entire world laughed at the Japanese. Engine designers in Japan were stuck so far back in the dark ages that they hadn’t even heard about those British experiments that were the standard for almost 50 years. Then the races began, and the Japanese started winning. Consistently, and not by small margins. It turned out that the entire world was in the dark, and the Japanese were the enlightened ones. The Japanese ignored the earlier experiments and did their own which proved the early British experiments only applied at very low engine RPM. That was fine in the 1920s, but was completely wrong for the high RPM motorcycle engines that were common in the 1960s. The Japanese had proven that at high RPM, valve mass was much more important than flow efficiency. Even though a larger number of small valves doesn’t let an engine breath as efficiently, it reduced valve mass and that lets the designer spin the engine much faster. That increase in engine speed more than makes up for the reduction in flow efficiency and enables the engine to produce significantly more power. It took the rest of the world more than 20 years to catch up to Japanese valve-train design. Now, it’s pretty much standard that an engine will have multiple small valves per cylinder, but that is entirely due to Japanese innovation. This is one reason the Japanese make great quality products. Innovation is in their culture.

Very true, and they had similar success with innovations for 2 stroke engines back in the 60s. Although they (Suzuki) stole the best 2 stroke design from eastern europe (MZ) (well, they paid a spy to steal it for them...), but then improved upon it. In fairly short order Japanese motorcycles were dominating the venerable Europeans on the track.

I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was a joke. It wasn't long before they were eating Detroit's lunch. Japanese made electronics dominated in the 80's. A few decades prior their electronics quality was generally pretty poor.

My experience with China made goods is that they are masters of copying external design, forgeries if you will. But the quality and substance generally (and usually quickly) falls flat. However I have no doubt that China is capable of world class manufacturing. Look at the iPhone for example.
 
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