Made In China

[gaseousclay]

I don't want this to turn into a political debate as this has nothing to do with anyone's nationality, but rather where our respective economies stand in the world and how it always seems to come back to 3rd world countries being the primary source of manufacture for big companies and how it influences the way we spend our money.

i'll admit that in the past I was indifferent to the 'made in China, made in Bangladesh or made in Sri Lanka' labels I would often see affixed to the majority of clothing labels. nowadays it kind of bothers me that the majority of US clothing companies (and a lot of European companies) source their manufacturing to 3rd world countries because of cost. does it bother you that the quality of merchandise has not only gone down, but that by purchasing items made overseas you're probably putting someone out of work because the companies involved have found a cheaper source of labor? not only is someone losing their job but the cheaper source of labor often works for barely liveable wages and in a potentially dangerous environment - labor laws overseas won't be as strict as the US or elsewhere in the world. on the other end of the spectrum, shoe companies like Alden come to mind when I think of good ole homegrown made in the USA product, or some of these other high-end shoe companies like Edward Green, Vass or John Lobb. yes, they charge a premium for their goods but they also make a higher quality product and more than likely pay their employees a decent wage because they're skilled laborers.

do you think we as consumers can influence the practices of big corporations by demanding product be made at home, or does fashion trump all? the irony for me is seeing the blue collar/white collar worker whose job is at risk of being outsourced overseas, yet they continue to shop from places like Walmart or Target, whose product are likely manufactured overseas. i'm definitely guilty of doing this but I also feel a sense of guilt everytime I buy that tie that's 'made in China' or that shirt from the Gap that's 'made in Sri Lanka.' I can probably go through every item of clothing in my wardrobe and find that the majority of it is made overseas. it's the same with non-clothing items as well - I'm pretty sure the hammer in my toolbox, or iron in the closet, or plastic storage tote were all made overseas.

again, i'm not trying to turn this into a political debate or an 'us versus them' debate. I'm just curious how most of you feel about it.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

China is slowly growing and soon it's economy will mean that the people will expect to be paid more and slowly they will outprice themselves, and manufacture will transfer back to india.... and finally back to the US/UK/Europe......

Tom

 

[Go West Young Man]

Don't blame China, they're just manufacturing to specs provided by their American and European buyers. So-called "3rd world countries" can turn out as high quality a product as any factory in the US, but the retailers here ask them to churn out cheap junk.

In fact, some of the highest quality product are also sourced/manufactured overseas as well. Chinese-made products can stand up against any in the world, IF the end buyer is willing to pay for quality.

 

[gaseousclay]

Don't blame China, they're just manufacturing to specs provided by their American and European buyers. So-called "3rd world countries" can turn out as high quality a product as any factory in the US, but the retailers here ask them to churn out cheap junk.

In fact, some of the highest quality product are also sourced/manufactured overseas as well. Chinese-made products can stand up against any in the world, IF the end buyer is willing to pay for quality.

i'm not blaming China, or Sri Lanka, or Bangladesh per se, but rather the companies that outsource their manufacturing to these countries just so they can make a bigger profit. I know that in the end it's all about the almighty dollar, but it's at the cost of the worker. it's also about having choices - nowadays most product on the shelf has a 'Made In China' or 'Made in Bangladesh' tag on it, but very few say 'Made In the USA.' not too long ago product that was 'Made In Japan' was considered junk, nowadays Japan is one of the leaders in the automobile and electronics industries. when it comes to the automobile industry it seems more likely, especially now, that consumers will want to 'buy American' then to support companies like Toyota or Honda. I have nothing against Toyota or Honda, in fact, I think they make good cars, but it's no coincidence that in the wake of the collapse of the economy more people started buying Ford or GM.

for me it's about holding companies to a higher standard with regard to where their product is made and how it effects consumers. it's no different than the food industry being held to a higher standard - more consumers are buying organic which in turn helps small-scale farmers continue with sustainable agricultural practices as well as make a living.

 

[Thebigspendur]

Don't worry a few years down the road and the U.S will be a third world country.

 

[C Reed]

The label in my jacket says: "Loveingly made in Norway by verry pertty blonde gilrs" , my jeans say "made in Sweeden", my shirt says "made in the USA"

Infact I think the only made in china stuff I own is underware and some made in Korea/ Japan stuff from Japanese and Korean brands, most of my clothes are made either in NYC, Scandinavia, or Eroupe and allmost all in the country where the brand is based.

But then I only buy cloths from up and coming desginers, and a few hip basics (like cheap mondays or rag and bone jeans/ shirts)

 

[Nils]

I don't know how it is in the US, but quite a few German companies are now turning their backs on China, because not only did production there help to cut down their cost, it also helped them to get right royally shafted by plagiarism; and somehow Chinese courts didn't seem to be very helpful there...
They also found out (to their disadvantage) that production is not only about cost but also about quality and productivity, which still is a lot better in Europe.

 

[Jim]

An insightful overview of this topic can be found in the NYT bestseller-
Deluxe- how luxury lost its luster by Dana Thomas

 

[82R100]

i'm not blaming China, or Sri Lanka, or Bangladesh per se, but rather the companies that outsource their manufacturing to these countries just so they can make a bigger profit. I know that in the end it's all about the almighty dollar, but it's at the cost of the worker. it's also about having choices - nowadays most product on the shelf has a 'Made In China' or 'Made in Bangladesh' tag on it, but very few say 'Made In the USA.'

I don't see the manufacturers making huge profits by off-shoring. They're just competing for the price point. While it's admirable that you're looking to find USA manufactured goods, much of that left a while ago. Quite a while ago. The folks you see buying imported goods are merely buying affordable goods.

In the meantime China is growing. Sometime recently (in November 2009 actually) China became the world's largest automobile consumer market and the world's largest automobile manufacturer.

- Chris

 

[AndrewWiggin]

You shouldn't blame companies for doing what companies are designed to do-they have to make a profit, and they have to deliver to the shareholders. It's easy to bemoan the lack of manufacturing jobs in the US, but think about stockholders in various companies-nearly everyone at this point has a foot in the door of the Dow Jones or the NASDAQ, and lower profit means your retirement account takes a hit.

Bringing manufacturing jobs to China and other countries usually means there's cheaper labor there, and it's vital to their industrialization. They don't have the greatest labor laws and it's ugly, but remember it was ugly here as well. Once most countries have reached industrialization, manufacturing jobs theoretically should even out.

You also need to look at the reasons companies have to move overseas, and why they can't remain competitive in the US. There is more at work here than corporate greed.

 

[82R100]

I don't know how it is in the US, but quite a few German companies are now turning their backs on China, because not only did production there help to cut down their cost, it also helped them to get right royally shafted by plagiarism; and somehow Chinese courts didn't seem to be very helpful there...
They also found out (to their disadvantage) that production is not only about cost but also about quality and productivity, which still is a lot better in Europe.

While sourcing from China is probably every bit as problematic for the US companies as for their German counterparts, I'm not aware of any movement away from Chinese manufacturers and suppliers. I predict that that movement will only happen when their wages make them less advantageous cost-wise and at that point we'll move to an even less expensive producing population. Sadly, it's mostly about price.

- Chris

 

[82R100]

Bringing manufacturing jobs to China and other countries usually means there's cheaper labor there, and it's vital to their industrialization. They don't have the greatest labor laws and it's ugly, but remember it was ugly here as well. Once most countries have reached industrialization, manufacturing jobs theoretically should even out.

Even out when the wages even out? Are you convinced that labor and environmental regulations will "even out" anytime soon?

You also need to look at the reasons companies have to move overseas, and why they can't remain competitive in the US. There is more at work here than corporate greed.

It's competition. They move overseas because their competitors have moved overseas. With the digital revolution this means white collar as well as blue collar.

- Chris

 

[mretzloff]

Quality has nothing to do with the country of a product's origin. Plenty of crap is produced in the USA. The thing that matters is that companies do not carry over a strict quality standard to other countries.

If a product is good, I will prefer one made in the USA or made in Germany, because I am German and I live in the USA. I do not mind Made in China anything, though.

 

[TheBigO]

First world nations are the primary source of skilled labor such as Engineers, researchers, etc. To that extent, I think its better that we spend more time training our population to be high-skill workers and have the less privileged 3rd world companies mass produce what we design and develop.

First world countries went from farmers->blue collar workers->white collar workers. The rest of the world is following suit; I think its best if we try to stay ahead of the pack, not stay back and fight for scraps.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Gaseousclay, Honda and Toyota use quite a bit of American labor to build cars and trucks in the US. The big three send quite a bit of labor to Mexico and other countries. Do you care more about where the corporate office is located or where the labor is actually performed? It's not just Honda and Toyota - a number of Asian manufacturers assemble cars in the US.

As for China... I tend to avoid their products whenever possible. I don't like their labor standards among other things. Part of the problem is that China keeps their currency artificially low - the better to export. Another issue is the brutal payroll and other taxes paid by US manufacturers. If you want to rebuild US manufacturing, cut the payroll tax on manufacturers. The factories and jobs would come right back.

Also, don't trust the numbers on the Chinese economy. Their accounting practices count a product as "sold" as soon as it ships from the factory. They do some other funny stuff, as well. Considering the world economy, I wouldn't be surprised if China is sitting on warehouses full of "sold" yet unsold goods, hoping things pick up again.

 

[Confuzius]

I work for an bearing importer/distributor.
In this industry at least, nearly everything that is made in China is made on German or Japanese machines. The quality differences are long since gone, the only problem that remains is consumer preconceptions. That said there's good Chinese stuff and bad Chinese stuff.

Seriously though, consider North American labour laws and working conditions 100-150 years ago. Some growing pains just take time. Give it 50 years and China will have moved on to different economic bases and markets and they will be importing all of their products from sub-saharan africa, and complaining about the Africans taking all of their jobs.

 

[AndrewWiggin]

Even out when the wages even out? Are you convinced that labor and environmental regulations will "even out" anytime soon?

- Chris

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I'm of the opinion that post industrialization, more regulation develops, so not only would wages level off, but regulations would no longer be unique to the US.

I'm very willing to admit that it's not an inevitability though.

 

[Stubblefield]

In fact, some of the highest quality product are also sourced/manufactured overseas as well. Chinese-made products can stand up against any in the world, IF the end buyer is willing to pay for quality.

100% true. Chinese factories will produce to any price or spec you demand.

 

[VR6ofpain]

I buy things Made in USA when I can. Some recent purchases were boots and misc tools/hardware store items. In general I find clothing is harder to find (I do have some American made Lucky jeans).

Certain things can be found still made here if you look. I recently bought a dog bed and some door mats from LL Bean that are Made in USA. Yes you pay more, but I feel better about the purchase. I think for most purchases I would consider if not outright buy the USA made product even for the premium price. The problem is most brick and mortar stores don't carry these items anymore (since most people are not willing to pay for them).

 

[toucanlamp]

Economies go through phases. Agrarian, industrial, and then finally a service/knowledge based economy. Ideally, the ultimate state is that things are balanced and like others have said manufacturing will return because wages will have risen in China to the point where the amount saved on salaries in China does not outweigh paying someone at home and not having to ship things across the ocean.

The utility to me of a pair of blue jeans made in China that cost $30 is exactly the same as some fancy American one that cost $110. I'll pick the cheaper one and 90% of people of average means do.

I'm sure it does take special skill to make a pair of shoes by hand. But why would I want that? I want a pair of shoes that are comfortable and cover my feet when I'm out. Some machine can make that just fine. I'm not interested in having to pay five times as much for my shoes so somebody can practice an outdated skilled trade and make a living at it.

If you want to, that's your choice. Like I said, most people don't have the luxury of paying incredible premiums for added quality that doesn't increase the utility of a product.

Some famous writer back centuries ago wrote satirically - if the government paid kids to go around breaking windows, the business for windowmakers would be booming. It's the exact same thing.

If you put a tariff on Chinese shoes so the highly skilled shoemaker can make a living making very high quality shoes, you're adding artificial market value to a skill, and you're forcing consumers towards a choice they don't want.

What you're advocating for is what the luxury goods market exists for. Economically it is an entirely different beast because it isn't subject to the same laws as normal industry because, a thing like quality or intangibles like a brand etc. is more important to the consumer than things like value and utility. If quality is most important to you, then you have the option to buy luxury goods. But like I said, the average consumer does not care at all about quality beyond the utility and value of a product.