M&P Shield, With or without safety?

[BigJoe]

Nortac,
No disrespect intended; but as I said it is my opinion. A gun is meant for one reason; and it was never designed for crippling. If not properly trained you will get yourself or someone else injured or killed. It's a mindset that a normal rational person cannot comprehend. So yes in my opinion unless your trained not to hesitate your better off leaving the weapon at home.

 

[nortac]

Nortac,
No disrespect intended; but as I said it is my opinion. A gun is meant for one reason; and it was never designed for crippling. If not properly trained you will get yourself or someone else injured or killed. It's a mindset that a normal rational person cannot comprehend. So yes in my opinion unless your trained not to hesitate your better off leaving the weapon at home. I agree that some or any training is better than none. However, I would rather face a man with a gun than a knife.

For the most part we agree, I do not advocate crippling anyone. If you're not justified in killing someone, you're not justified in shooting them. A Knife at close range is a very dangerous weapon, hence the Tueller drill.

 

[1kentj]

Unless you have trained Extensively with a safety if you ever really need to have a gun, you are going to wonder why it won't fire. By the time you remember it might be too late.

 

[Cigar Guy]

Unless you have had that sort of training your better off leaving the gun at home. You have to be able think under the pressure.

I don't agree with this statement. Leave the gun at home? Really? How about a situation where you can pull your weapon and not shoot? The bad guy(s) run away and you or maybe your family spared. I'm sure that has happened.

I admit I'm a novice to concealed weapons, but, I did grow up on a farm and hunted with shotguns and .22's every day. I did go through basic training in the Army and qualified with the M-16, etc.. And, I do have a good head on my shoulders. How will I react in a real life and death experiance? Who knows? I guess no one knows unless it happens.

Are you better prepared than me or the rest of us for that matter? Probably, but, that doesn't mean we can't handle the situation.
I go to the range every Sunday. So far that's all I can afford and have spare time for. (and that's pushing it with the wife)

Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions guys. I value your opinion greatly!
Mark

 

[Cigar Guy]

BigJoe, After re-reading the last page of this thread I get what you are saying, but I still don't completely agree.
I understand you still have to be prepared to kill and you obviously don't want the bad guy to take the gun and use it on you, but with no gun at all you're a sitting duck.

 

[simon1]

Just me, but I think a safety on that type of a weapon is not necessary. Just more junk added to the internals.

But, that's why Smith made both models...whatever you would prefer.

John...we always just called it the 21 foot rule (the Tueller rule was just what it was also called in initial training). But situational awareness also helps when they are closer than 21 feet and you don't know if they have a sharp or not. And when you're on a disturbance call keep 'em out of the kitchen. I've seen someone I knew die on the floor from a knife wound to the abdomen that cut the major artery where it branches and goes to the legs.

Nortac,
No disrespect intended; but as I said it is my opinion. A gun is meant for one reason; and it was never designed for crippling. If not properly trained you will get yourself or someone else injured or killed. It's a mindset that a normal rational person cannot comprehend. So yes in my opinion unless your trained not to hesitate your better off leaving the weapon at home.

Big Joe, no disrespect to you and I have the utmost respect for your training and experience, but I have seen several instances where a normal, rational person did comprehend and did very well. But I do get your point that some people can "think" that just because they are armed they will do well and then end up panicking. Just don't sell the average Joe short.

Edit: Cigar Guy...you posted while I was typing. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Second edit: Mark...get the words shoot to kill completely out of your vocabulary...you shoot to stop.

 

[Cigar Guy]

Will do, simon1. Thank you.

As of right now...I think I will get the one without the safety. Just one less doubt when I pull the trigger. If it's never there, I never will have to worry about it.

 

[mglindo]

Nortac,
No disrespect intended; but as I said it is my opinion. A gun is meant for one reason; and it was never designed for crippling. If not properly trained you will get yourself or someone else injured or killed. It's a mindset that a normal rational person cannot comprehend. So yes in my opinion unless your trained not to hesitate your better off leaving the weapon at home.

No!


Mike

 

[OkieStubble]

Nortac,
No disrespect intended; but as I said it is my opinion. A gun is meant for one reason; and it was never designed for crippling. If not properly trained you will get yourself or someone else injured or killed. It's a mindset that a normal rational person cannot comprehend. So yes in my opinion unless your trained not to hesitate your better off leaving the weapon at home.

Tell that to these girls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4B_XbW7ds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7LKwt1j18

 

[OkieStubble]

My Shield has an external safety. It is never engaged so it may as well not be there. But, it isn't hurting anything and if for whatever reason (which I cannot perceive at this moment) I thought it might be a good idea to have such a safety...there it is.

Our Glocks have an external safety also. It just happens to be conveniently located on the front of the trigger.

 

[Acmemfg]

Well...glad this seems to be over. Cigar Guy-I hope you enjoy your Shield. I like mine; it's not my favorite as an every day carry weapon but it certainly sees its share of work and I'm glad it's in my arsenal.

With risk of hijacking this thread just a bit (maybe derailing a tad might be a better choice of words), but, seeing how the topic did crop up here....
Indeed developing and maintaining the proper mindset to properly and efficiently incorporate the use of deadly force when no other option is available is imperative. However this is something many people do not consider. Not a great idea.

If an individual is of the mind set of the "Kill them all and let God sort them out" or believes that "drawing down and double-tapping the perp one in the chest and one in the head" is all there is to it...well, that person hopefully will never have to find out the hard way that their philosophy is very, very, wrong.

I would humbly suggest to anyone..anyone who decides to acquire a firearm with the intent of using it for defensive purposes, to also pick up a copy of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society". Required reading on the USMC Commamdant's reading list, the FBI Academy and many other centers of higher learning.

Quite possibly the best $12.00 you will ever spend. I will also guarantee after reading it, you will have a significantly different view about what you may or may not find yourself doing once you have that gun in your hand.
Surely his book taught me a few things......

 

[dojpros]

I would respectfully assert that the safety is difficult to manipulate at speed thereby making the weapon much slower if it needed to be brought to bear. If it is a plinker, it does not matter. If I was going to bet my life on the pistol, I would opt for the no safety model.

I would not opt for a safety model and just keeping the safety "off" as they tend to get get knocked back on at the most inopportune of times. I fully acknowledge that my opinion is mostly observational/anectodal as I have less than 100 rounds thru a Shield.

 

[Cigar Guy]

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society". Required reading on the USMC Commamdant's reading list, the FBI Academy and many other centers of higher learning.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered it.

 

[LSUNick]

Congrats on your new shield. I own a Glock and a Shield and carry both depending on my situation for the day. The shield has an external safety, but when it is holstered and on me it is always disengaged. At home and in the safe, I keep the safety engaged as I have young kids in the home and any extra safety measures make me feel more comfortable in that situation. To each their own, I guess.

 

[tromboneliness]

I carry a Shield with the external safety. The house gun (a PPQ) has none, which is the way I want it: if SWMBO (although she's trained) has to use it, it's just pull the trigger and nothing extra.

I simply found myself uncomfortable carrying the striker fired pistols with a round in the chamber. I think it was the report of the cop who shot himself in the thigh with a Glock because one of those little cords that tighten/loosen your jacket got inside the trigger guard while he was holstering the weapon. Now, I'm careful about carry clothing, and I always look while reholstering--we've had that out before. But still, Mr Murphy . . .

So:

Yes, the safety is in your head. Mine is, too.

Folks have carried guns with external safeties for over 100 years with evident success.

I've practiced I don't know how many hundreds of draws, dry and live, while flicking the safety off. And back on before reholstering. The practice will continue.

Whatever floats yer boat. Shiny.

 

[jamesspo]

I carry a Shield with the external safety. The house gun (a PPQ) has none, which is the way I want it: if SWMBO (although she's trained) has to use it, it's just pull the trigger and nothing extra.

I simply found myself uncomfortable carrying the striker fired pistols with a round in the chamber. I think it was the report of the cop who shot himself in the thigh with a Glock because one of those little cords that tighten/loosen your jacket got inside the trigger guard while he was holstering the weapon. Now, I'm careful about carry clothing, and I always look while reholstering--we've had that out before. But still, Mr Murphy . . .

So:

Yes, the safety is in your head. Mine is, too.

Folks have carried guns with external safeties for over 100 years with evident success.

I've practiced I don't know how many hundreds of draws, dry and live, while flicking the safety off. And back on before reholstering. The practice will continue.

Whatever floats yer boat. Shiny.

Yeah, I'm of the same opinion on external safeties. The brain is of course the first line of defense, but humans make mistakes, no matter your training and experience. For weapons with short light trigger pulls, the ramifications of trigger mishandling are more acute. External mechanical safeties provide a second line of defense in the case of failure of the first line. It's 99% unnecessary, but I think worth the minimal "cost". Disengaging the safety is as automatic to me as getting a proper grip on the gun.

As said though, everyone has to roll as they see fit on this issue. It's a personal choice.

 

[OkieStubble]

Whatever floats yer boat. Shiny.

Lol'd @ "Shiny".

 

[tromboneliness]

BTW, in case anyone's interested, S&W has just released the Shield in .45 at the NRA show.. It appears to be a tiny bit bigger. And: available with and without the external safety.

Lol'd @ "Shiny".

Best damn SF show ever.

 

[Acmemfg]

I'm thinking they'll be pretty popular. Especially for the price.

 

[Cigar Guy]

I've only shot 1911's in .45 ACP. I'm thinking the compacts would be quite snappy and not a fun range gun. Very nice, though!