Lying to Customs?

[AJS]

Alex

You should factor in the customs costs when you make your purchase. You have enough experience with the anount of orders you make from the US to know exactly how much you'll end up being charged. another thought is that the £ is pretty strong against the $ at the moment, this gives us a pretty big discount anyway.

I alays factor in 17.5% just in case, but my idea of 17.5% is that it is in fact 17.5%, customs idea of 17.5% seems substantially higher. I ordered a Slant Bar and a Shavette from Classic Shaving, 3 weeks later than it should the package turns up with a 12.00 GBP customs charge plus another 4 GBP for collection fees. Obvioulsly the amount of money is inconsequential in itself, but in this instance the combined charges were nearly as much as the value of the order itself.

 

[Jonnybc]

I alays factor in 17.5% just in case, but my idea of 17.5% is that it is in fact 17.5%, customs idea of 17.5% seems substantially higher. I ordered a Slant Bar and a Shavette from Classic Shaving, 3 weeks later than it should the package turns up with a 12.00 GBP customs charge plus another 4 GBP for collection fees. Obvioulsly the amount of money is inconsequential in itself, but in this instance the combined charges were nearly as much as the value of the order itself.

Duty and VAT are two different beasts, I lifter this info from an external site:

What goods are subject to Duty & VAT?
All goods imported into the UK from outside the EU must be declared to HM Customs & Excise and, in most cases, are subject to customs duty & VAT. This includes goods bought over the Internet.
About Duty
What is the rate of Duty?
The rate of Duty for any given product should be the same no matter into which EU country they are imported, but may differ depending upon the country of origin. Set annually by the EU, rates run from 1st January to 31st December and are published in a Customs Tariff issued by each EU country. Duty is usually percentage based, and averages between 5-9% with extremes of nil and 85%.

How is the rate determined?
Goods are classified using the Customs Tariff in order to arrive at the rate of Duty. The EU uses a ten digit coding and there are approximately 14,000 classifications.

What is the value for Duty?
Customs assess the amount of Duty to be paid based on the declared value of the goods plus the transport costs to the country of destination.
About VAT
What is the value for VAT?
The value for VAT is the declared value of the goods plus the transport costs to the country of destination plus the customs duty.

Example of Duty calculation
Goods 2 special edition "Hits of the 80's" CD sets
Value of goods £80 +
Transport to the UK £35

Total value for Duty £115 x 3.5% Duty = Total Duty payable £4.02

Example of VAT calculation
Value of goods £80 +
Transport to the UK £35 +
Duty charges £4.02

Total value for VAT £119.02 x 17.5% = Total VAT payable £20.83

Therefore the total import Duty and VAT charges payable on import of these goods would be £24.85

You can get out of the £4 by refusing delivery and then collecting it from the PO concerned. I sort of did this by accident at work. I wasn't at my desk when the package arrived but a messenger left a failed delivery card on my desk. After a very hot trip to Mount Pleasant (This is a Large London PO, it's neither a mountain OR pleasant) I walked away with my goods having just paid the VAT and the duty.

 

[AJS]

I get asked to claim less tyhan actual sale value on my strops and sets quite often. It is though against the law to falsify values on Customs Declarations and I politely refuse. As a business owner I need to keep records and having numbers not add up at audit time is never good.

I am puzzled though by UK buyers having VAT added to shipping costs. On the US Postal Service Customs Declaration forums one is supposed to declare the actual value of the goods and the shipping cost itself does not appear on the multipart declaration forum unless your seller puts it on as part of the actual costs of the goods. It is though on the package itself so if they are using that figure the VAT people are stretching the limits a bit.

Undervaluing shipments is an issue at insurance time to if a package gets lost or damaged. One needs to provide proof of actual purchase price of the goods. You buy a $130 shaving set, I buy $130 worth of insurance, claim the package is worth $60 for Customs and when it gets lost and none of the paperwork adds up someone (me probably) gets in trouble <g>.

I try to live my life by playing by the rules. Things go easier that way as there is only one story to remember.......the real one <g>

Tony Miller

You make an interesting point here. Just how does one approach this subject with a seller? Although I will never ask a vendor to do this now (it was never very likely I would've in the first place) it is interesting to see just how different certain sellers reactions are. On the two occasions where I have had the opportunity to "falsify" customs records the offer came from the merchant both times. Back then though I didn't even know people were prepared to do this, I just thought customs duties were there and there was no way around them, so I told them to put the actual value on the package (how foolish they must have thought me, too innocent for my own good) and got hit with charges both times. The sellers in question were not ebay sellers, both are well known names in the industry and hearing all of your responses it surprises me that they were prepared to do this.

 

[AJS]

I never even factored in import duties, but having checked the duty fees and the rate of V.A.T I have still been overcharged on a number of occasions. One more thing, in your example, you include the cost of shipping in the V.A.T, I always assumed that this was separate and actual cost was based on the value of the items (and then grossly inflated, in my case at least .)

 

[AJS]

Perhaps asking the seller to list the wholesale value would help. The number is accurate and may save you on the import fees.
Of course this may encourage buying in wholesale volumes to get a better price. Hmmm...forget I mentioned it.
J

Forgot to say, welcome to B&B.

 

[drP]

In the past i also tried to make arrangements with vendors about "devaluating" purchases in order to avoid customs fees; some were willingly, other refused to. But i stopped long time ago doing this, as it would cost me lots of time to correspond etc; now i've developed kind of a mood like: "be a good sport and take your loss".....it's the risk of ordering overseas (i.e. outside the EU for me, most of my purchases come from the USA).

Recently i paid about 120 dollars customs fees when i ordered my two Savile Row brushes, 3332 en 3132 from Charles at qedusa; to my big regret they didn't pass the customs uncontrolled.....but i took my loss...lifted my shoulders and made a deep sigh.....


Peter

 

[guenron]

Something to comtemplate is the "REIMPORTATION" of EU-made products, e.g. a Merkur Razor. I am not aware of the treatment for duty and/or vat given to items in this category, but in the past (pre-EU) it was somewhat less abusive, i.e. you were not required to ransome your first born.

 

[AJS]

Something to comtemplate is the "REIMPORTATION" of EU-made products, e.g. a Merkur Razor. I am not aware of the treatment for duty and/or vat given to items in this category, but in the past (pre-EU) it was somewhat less abusive, i.e. you were not required to ransome your first born.

I don't have a first born to sell, might have to say goodbye to one of my kidney's soon though. How much do they bring on the black market these days?

 

[Tony Miller]

You make an interesting point here. Just how does one approach this subject with a seller? .

I get the request far more often with new items I sell on eBay than through my online store. The few who asked via my storefront were very polite and simply inquired: "would this be a possibility and if not I fully understand"

The more plentiful number who have bought via eBay make their purchase first then add "please declare the value as $XXX so I don't have to pay as much in taxes" or "just say it is a gift". To me this is no longer just asking but more telling me what they expect.

As a dealer I am supposed to include a commercial invoice which will have the price paid. If I lie here too what value do I now use for insurance? The new "undervalued" one? If I do and the package gets lost the insurance will only cover the lower figure. Ths surly won't make the buyer happy and I can already see a chargeback comong via Paypal for the amout that actually changed hands.

Again to me it is far easier to just play by the rules as a buyer or a seller. Don't let my post give the wrong impression. 99% of my buyers are a pleasure to deal with but there are always a few who are not.

Tony

 

[Joedy]

Perhaps I am stretching the literal definition of the process, but if you are located in Europe, what is to prevent you from sending funds to a fellow US B&B member electronically who in turn would purchase the US-based vendors' items and then mail them to Europe with the parcel marked as "Gift" once the purchase arrived at the house of the US B&B friend?

-joedy

 

[Kyle]

Joedy,
I won't even pretend to have an idea of the workings and rules of customs (for any country), but here is my experience.

I structured a trade with a fellow member who resides in Germany. I claimed the item as a gift, more-so because I didn't know how else to classify it, and then estimated the total worth of the package for insurance purposes. The item was stopped at customs and the fellow was charged another $25 before they would release the package to him. He said that once an item reaches a certain value, it no longer matters what it's classification is.

Certainly, one could undervalue the estimated worth when getting the package insured, but is it worth the risk? I don't know about you, but when I place an order, and especially one from an overseas vendor, I usually order a grouping of items with a great enough worth to counter my shipping costs. In doing this, if and when a product is finally lost in transit, the financial hit could very likely make up for any money saved by "cheating the system".

 

[Joedy]

I'm not trying to play Devil's Advocate, but wouldn't a "gift" be considered as worthless (or $0.00) insofar as actual monetary costs? (Disregarding the implication of purchasing insurance only for replacement funds in the event of a transport mishap.)

I am thinking that the "gift" catagory trying implies that no funds have been involved in the transfer of the items in the parcel, thus no real value other than for insuring against loss?

-joedy

 

[Kyle]

I don't argue with your logic, but my friend was charged $25 nonetheless.