Loupe/Microscope Pictures

[dmatcuk]

Hey Everyone,
Does anyone have a good source, link, website, etc for photos of what I should be looking for when I use my jewelers loupe while honing? I'm trying to learn Jnats currently and have had limited success. I thought I did really well, got some of the smoothest shaves I have ever had. That edge only lasted for maybe 2 weeks. I was even able to refresh it fairly well, but again very short lived.

I made my initial try with the Jnats on my daily shaver, which was probably not the best idea. So I went back to the old reliable Naniwa Super Stones to bring the edge back on my daily. I have a bunch of other decent razors to work with on the Jnats, but I need something reliable for my day to day shaves. Well now I am having trouble getting the edge back. I had a pretty close shave, but very uncomfortable this morning. I am going to have to start fresh I think with resetting the bevel. I figure it would be good to put my loupe to work and monitor my progress. I am just not sure what I should be looking for when I use the loupe. The edge always looks great to me haha! Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!

 

[LJS]

+1 on fresh bevel and steel if you want to make a solid change. I don’t have any help for you on the pictures.

 

[stone and strop]

Hey Everyone,
Does anyone have a good source, link, website, etc for photos of what I should be looking for when I use my jewelers loupe while honing? I'm trying to learn Jnats currently and have had limited success. I thought I did really well, got some of the smoothest shaves I have ever had. That edge only lasted for maybe 2 weeks. I was even able to refresh it fairly well, but again very short lived.

I made my initial try with the Jnats on my daily shaver, which was probably not the best idea. So I went back to the old reliable Naniwa Super Stones to bring the edge back on my daily. I have a bunch of other decent razors to work with on the Jnats, but I need something reliable for my day to day shaves. Well now I am having trouble getting the edge back. I had a pretty close shave, but very uncomfortable this morning. I am going to have to start fresh I think with resetting the bevel. I figure it would be good to put my loupe to work and monitor my progress. I am just not sure what I should be looking for when I use the loupe. The edge always looks great to me haha! Any advice is appreciated! Thanks!

What razor are you referring to that won't keep an edge?


The edge is all you should be looking at. Find the best way to get the best view from your loupe of the absolute edge.
Even with a microscope a good edge is not absolute. It is certainly easier to use and estimate what the edge will be like but that is after much experimentation and consistency seeing, then confirming what you are seeing.

 

[dmatcuk]

It's a PRC Hydra that won't hold the edge. I got maybe 2 weeks of good shaves then they were horrible. The blade wasn't dropped, hit, compromised in anyway. Been shaving for almost 4 years without stropping issues, so don't think it's that.

 

[stone and strop]

I would try the same razor on another stone to see if its the razor.
Doesn't make sense other than the razor won't hold an edge.
Some razors just don't perform well on some mediums as well.

 

[dmatcuk]

The razor has done fine on the super stones in the past. I just rehoned it tonight. We will see how it does shaving maybe tomorrow. Did 1k, 3k, 9k, 12k. Got a Dovo Carpe Diem, new Boker tree brand, and various vintage blades to try on the jnat going forward. I'll find something that works on it and learn those stones. Pretty determined at this point!

 

[ajduplessis]

No sure what you would gain from loupe pic, but here goes. after bevel set on a 1.2k stone honing solingen carbam steel. Important for me is to have a well defined/set and even bevel, dont use tape. Cheap micoscope with bad image quality...

 

[stone and strop]

I thought I did really well, got some of the smoothest shaves I have ever had. That edge only lasted for maybe 2 weeks. I was even able to refresh it fairly well, but again very short lived.

If you had some of the smoothest shaves of your life for two weeks then it is your stropping, a poor quality razor, or a razor that doesn't like the Jnat.

 

[dmatcuk]

No sure what you would gain from loupe pic, but here goes. after bevel set on a 1.2k stone honing solingen carbam steel. Important for me is to have a well defined/set and even bevel, dont use tape. Cheap micoscope with bad image quality...
View attachment 1051587

I just want to make sure that I am looking for the right things when I check the edge with my loupe. So I thought pictures might show me what I am actually looking for. I can look at the edges through my loupe all day, but if I don't know what I am actually looking at then I am wasting my time.

 

[dmatcuk]

If you had some of the smoothest shaves of your life for two weeks then it is your stropping, a poor quality razor, or a razor that doesn't like the Jnat.

Likely the razor and hone don't get along. I've been shaving about 4 years with straights and never had stroping problems. Been using this particular strop for probably over 2 of those years. The razor is a Portland Razor Co Hydra that I have had for just over 2 years. It has always held edges just fine off of the synthetic hones.

 

[ajduplessis]

I just want to make sure that I am looking for the right things when I check the edge with my loupe. So I thought pictures might show me what I am actually looking for. I can look at the edges through my loupe all day, but if I don't know what I am actually looking at then I am wasting my time.

I look for a well defined, set and even bevel along the entire length of the blade. Everything after bevel set is just refinement of the work done before, so the foundation must be 100% before moving on.

 

[stone and strop]

Likely the razor and hone don't get along. I've been shaving about 4 years with straights and never had stroping problems. Been using this particular strop for probably over 2 of those years. The razor is a Portland Razor Co Hydra that I have had for just over 2 years. It has always held edges just fine off of the synthetic hones.

It has to be.
Next would be to test several different razors on the Jnat. If some are great, that would answer your question conclusively.
If none are great then maybe the stone is toxic.

If the razor was over honed or had a wire edge it would not last two weeks. If it holds an edge on synthetics - its not the razor.
Minute degradation from the steel not working well with a particular type of stone is hard to see with a loupe unless you have a great one. Its much easier to see with a microscope.
The edge just becomes a little irregular, not chippy really, but lumpy for lack of a better word. It will still get sharper overall and shave ok but usually not great at least not for any length of time.
With normal use an edge really takes a beating but will hold on for 30-50 shaves with a decent razor. If the edge is even minutely compromised before the first shave it will degrade exponentially.

I have told apprentices over the years, make the joints perfect or the best you can - take the time.
Eventually, through movement, the joint will develop small gaps. If you start with perfect it will remain in great shape for many years. If you have to fill a joint it will not look good for long.

If you cannot see what is happening it must be answered through trial and error. Time and patience will get you there, just not as quickly.

IMO steel is more temperamental than stones. Very few razors work great in all mediums. Most have a preference to particular mediums as is evident through the scope.
When I hone something new I go to 8k synth then depending on how the steel looks I either go softer, med, or hard abrasive.
About 6months ago I started a log, as my memory is not what it used to be.
A simple notation of the razor and what if anything it preferred. Many times the exact stone preferred.

 

[Stoneseeker]

What do you suggest to buy for a PC microscope?

 

[stone and strop]

What do you suggest to buy for a PC microscope?

I don't want to say any one brand is better than any other as I haven't used enough to give a knowledgeable answer.

I think any microscope, be it student, vintage or otherwise would suffice. Prices increase with magnification, ability to take photos, and measure size etc. Clarity far outweighs magnification.
Mine only goes to 640x mag. I never use over 100x for edge evaluation.

I don't think they make it any more but this is mine,

Micro360 Dual Purpose Microscope | Celestron

www.celestron.com

A separate light source is mandatory and light placement is critical. Through experimentation you will find the best view with the light source at a certain spot relative to the object

 

[dmatcuk]

Thanks everyone. I have a couple vintage and a couple new razors to test out on the Jnat to see what is going on. I got my PRC almost back to where I would like it on the synthetic hones. Pretty smooth shave, minimal irritation, and no bleeding. I will refine it a little more this week, but it should get there.

 

[SliceOfLife]

If you had some of the smoothest shaves of your life for two weeks then it is your stropping, a poor quality razor, or a razor that doesn't like the Jnat.

Some Jnats (and other stones) suffer from fatiguing the metal too much while working on it. Not a problem for a lot of things with big fat angles that dont flex much in honing. Big problem for 10-15* razor edges that are microns thick. I believe this is one of the biggest differences between a high quality razor grade jnat, and a random scavenged stone from the scrap pile that is equally fine in grit. Both may give you a similar first stroke. The latter may not even be able to get through your beard on your second cheek.

 

[rbscebu]

Here is a pic of the bevel on my Titan T.H. 60 blade after my shave this morning, just rinsed and dryed. That bevel is 0.35mm (0.014").

​

The bevel was set a few weeks ago just using a 3k natural stone (all I currently have) and then stropped about 200 passes on denim with pastes. I lightly strop this bevel about 50 passes on clean leather before each shave. The bevel angle is 18.0deg.

The pic was taken with my USD10 USB microscope.

​

 

[stone and strop]

Some Jnats (and other stones) suffer from fatiguing the metal too much while working on it. Not a problem for a lot of things with big fat angles that dont flex much in honing. Big problem for 10-15* razor edges that are microns thick. I believe this is one of the biggest differences between a high quality razor grade jnat, and a random scavenged stone from the scrap pile that is equally fine in grit. Both may give you a similar first stroke. The latter may not even be able to get through your beard on your second cheek.

Isn't this more of a razor issue? He said he went two weeks before it became an issue, not one side of his face.
That would be an over honing issue/ metal not being able to support itself etc.

I have heard argument the other way with really hard Jnats (case hardening) making the metal harder at the surface. Course I'm not buying any of it.

What would cause only some razors to have that effect?
For me, its the razor not liking the Jnat. IMO this happens often - not specifically with jnats of course but one razor may not work well with a softer Jnat but does work well with a really hard one.

 

[dmatcuk]

Sorry for the delay in response. It was rather odd in my opinion. The razor is shaving fine now off of synthetic hones, so the razor generally is not the issue I don't think. I haven't had the chance to try some other razors on the Jnat yet though. I hope to do that this weekend or next. Eventually I will try the PRC razor in question again on the Jnat. I just need to get one of my other razors back to shave ready before I try.

 

[stone and strop]

The process of elimination will get you the answer.
The razor being fine now with another medium solves that part.
Another razor on the Jnat will partially solve the other - if it works well with it.
If you have a problem with the next razor on the Jnat try a third and forth if need be. You want to be sure it is the stone before moving away from it.

Good luck