Looking for advice on a new brush

[Alex_Kinzor]

Okay fellows, I think my cheap brush is starting to show its cheapness. Over Xmas my mother procured at Wally World a Van der Hagen Shave Set. It comes in the orange package, and includes a shave soap (of indeterminate odor), a clear plastic brush stand, and a "apothecary" mug. Included with this was a boar brush (I believe it to be about 24mm in knot--I didn't measure it and the box doesn't say). Thankfully it never smelled of boar or if it did I didn't notice.

What I have noticed though is that the brush sheds. It has shed since the first day I got it, and that really doesn't bother me so much, but rather it annoys me. For a Xmas present bought by a woman who did absolutely no research whatsoever I don't think I have the right to complain. It is after all still serviceable though for how long I don't know.

Anyway this morning when I shaved the brush shed about half dozen hairs. First I want to see if I can rule out anything I may be doing wrong. Typically when I shave I either soak the brush in warm to hot water (no more than 48C or 120F) for aproximately five minutes, maybe seven minutes tops, typically while I shower or wash my face as the case may be. Once the brush is soaked I will shake out most of the water and preceed to build my lather, by loading it with soap from the mug and then face lathering. I used to mostly build my lather in the mug with the soap on the bottom but I've since figured out a way to face lather even if I do have to sometimes go back to the mug for more soap on the second and third passes. I imagine I would have better luck using a softer soap or a croap with this method, but I digress.

Second, since I know the brush does shed I will before I soak the brush gently rub the brush against the palm of my hand to see if any loose hairs come out. This of course keeps the bristles out of my sink, out of my soap and off my face when I lather. That really isn't a problem for me--more of an annoyance.

So my first two questions are those pre-shave actions causing the brush to shed more than it would otherwise?

Second, since it seems more or less inevitable I will have to get a new brush is shedding something that happens primarily to boar brushes, or does it happen to cheaply made brushes?

And my final question, yes I'm full of noob questions today, would I likely be better off with a synthetic or a better made boar brush. I'm not sure I'm ready for a badger but I'm open to it if the price is right--I'm thinking more along the lines of daily (or in my case thrice weekly) brushes that can take a licking and keep on ticking.

If it helps my budget is 25 USD or less (excluding shipping, taxes, etc).

 

[Doug57]

If you like the feel of boar brushes, any of the Omega brushes can be had for a very low price. Some are barely $10 and work quite well. I still use an Omega 10065 which was my first brush and it hasn't shed a bristle.

If you want to go a step up, IMHO, try Semogue boars. Most of them are also in your price range. I have a Semogue 1460 which is great for face lathering.

 

[Alex_Kinzor]

If you like the feel of boar brushes, any of the Omega brushes can be had for a very low price. Some are barely $10 and work quite well. I still use an Omega 10065 which was my first brush and it hasn't shed a bristle.

If you want to go a step up, IMHO, try Semogue boars. Most of them are also in your price range. I have a Semogue 1460 which is great for face lathering.

Doug, well part of my problem is I really don't know what I prefer. Right now I'm looking primarily into other boars and synthetics, though if the price is right I'd spring for a badger too. But it seems that I'm most likely going to be face lathering. It could be psychological but it seems to me like I have more control over the thickness and slickness of the lather by feeling it on my face rather than by trying to make the lather in a mug or bowl by sight.

 

[drwevil]

Don't overlook the synthetic brushes many can be had for about $15. I love mine it is so much better than my badger brush.


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[D1dad]

Maggards synthetic is a great brush for around $10. I have one of the VH boar brushes that I use strictly for travel and I also bought one for my son and here's what I found with the shedding. I don't have a stand and storing it wet,, brush side up, makes whatever glue they use weak which is what my son did. I always store all my brushes down till they dry and the VH has shed no more than my nicer ones. That may not be your issue but just a thought.

 

[Doug57]

Doug, well part of my problem is I really don't know what I prefer. Right now I'm looking primarily into other boars and synthetics, though if the price is right I'd spring for a badger too. But it seems that I'm most likely going to be face lathering. It could be psychological but it seems to me like I have more control over the thickness and slickness of the lather by feeling it on my face rather than by trying to make the lather in a mug or bowl by sight.

I face lather almost exclusively for exactly the same reasons that you describe. I use boars, badgers, and synthetics and all work well for me. I have a RazoRock Plissoft synthetic that I love. It is also well within your price range

 

[Alex_Kinzor]

Maggards synthetic is a great brush for around $10. I have one of the VH boar brushes that I use strictly for travel and I also bought one for my son and here's what I found with the shedding. I don't have a stand and storing it wet,, brush side up, makes whatever glue they use weak which is what my son did. I always store all my brushes down till they dry and the VH has shed no more than my nicer ones. That may not be your issue but just a thought.

Well thankfuly the shave set came with an clear plastic stand. It has room for both my brush and my razor on it. I store my brush upside down. I've even went off and measured the stand's dimensions to see if it what size I'd need for a different brush which seems to be in the 35mm range.

I don't exactly dry my brush after use though. I will rinse it in my lukewarm water rinsing water (I typically fill the sink to shave rather than running the razor under the tap, that seems to work better for me) to remove the left over lather and other residue, shake it dry and then hang it up. Though it may be reasonable for the glue to be weakened by soaking it in fairly warm water during the pre-shave.

I face lather almost exclusively for exactly the same reasons that you describe. I use boars, badgers, and synthetics and all work well for me. I have a RazoRock Plissoft synthetic that I love. It is also well within your price range

Do the Plissoft brushes prefer softer soaps or would they work equally well on harder soaps? I fully expect to try at least a few softer Italian Style soaps, I imagine that Proraso Green would be very nice--especially during Florida's Ultra-Summer, as well as harder soaps. (Still in that experimental phase).

 

[Mcmen4my]

I know your pain all too well! I too, started with the Van Der Hagen brush and had the same issue (plus I didn't like how it felt on my face). So I bought the Omega 10066 Boar brush which is roughly $9 I believe. I loved it! It's still in my rotation but I received a Semogue 620 boar brush (roughly $20 I believe) and since day one that brush has been amazing! It's a stiffer brush so it does fair well for those who face lather. Either one of those is pretty nice and I have had no complaints with either. When pairing the, next to each other I do tend to like the Semogue better just because of the greater backbone that it has. Good luck and I hope you find one that works well for you!

 

[drwevil]

Well thankfuly the shave set came with an clear plastic stand. It has room for both my brush and my razor on it. I store my brush upside down. I've even went off and measured the stand's dimensions to see if it what size I'd need for a different brush which seems to be in the 35mm range.

I don't exactly dry my brush after use though. I will rinse it in my lukewarm water rinsing water (I typically fill the sink to shave rather than running the razor under the tap, that seems to work better for me) to remove the left over lather and other residue, shake it dry and then hang it up. Though it may be reasonable for the glue to be weakened by soaking it in fairly warm water during the pre-shave.



Do the Plissoft brushes prefer softer soaps or would they work equally well on harder soaps? I fully expect to try at least a few softer Italian Style soaps, I imagine that Proraso Green would be very nice--especially during Florida's Ultra-Summer, as well as harder soaps. (Still in that experimental phase).

My synthetic give a great lather on hard or soft soaps.


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[Doug57]

Do the Plissoft brushes prefer softer soaps or would they work equally well on harder soaps? I fully expect to try at least a few softer Italian Style soaps, I imagine that Proraso Green would be very nice--especially during Florida's Ultra-Summer, as well as harder soaps. (Still in that experimental phase).

I use my Plissoft with anything from hard soaps to creams. I think it's at it's best with soft Italian style soaps.

 

[Alex_Kinzor]

Excellent. I've been shopping on Italian Barber so I think I may actually be able to get two and stay in budget. The Razorock Blondie boar 26mm knot, and the 24mm Razorock Plissoft synthetic. The latter has some really great reviews on youtube.

I'll probably be seeking out some of the softer soaps, particularly ones with menthol in them come Ultra-Summer. It gets hot down here and stays hot down here for months at a time.

 

[JohnG10]

Also check out whippeddog.com. Larry sells all 3 types of brushes and they are inexpensive but well built.

 

[cgr86]

semogue brushes are awesome

 

[OtterLunacy]

Though it may be reasonable for the glue to be weakened by soaking it in fairly warm water during the pre-shave.

That's my suspicion--that cheaply made brushes have sub par glue that will fall apart at the flimsiest excuse. When I soak my boars I always leave them "standing" in the water so that the handle isn't submerged.

 

[D1dad]

To bad with the VH boar brush because when they are broke in they're actually pretty good. It seems like the QC isn't there since it seems to be hit or miss? I lost a few hairs but no more than any other brush.

 

[Alex_Kinzor]

That's my suspicion--that cheaply made brushes have sub par glue that will fall apart at the flimsiest excuse. When I soak my boars I always leave them "standing" in the water so that the handle isn't submerged.

I try to not submerge the handle mostly out of concern for the glue as I'm not sure what kind they use. But it seems that this particular bush really doesn't need an excuse to shed. As I said it was doing that out of the box. I'll give VdH one thing though, they definitely have the marketing and big box store presence.

To bad with the VH boar brush because when they are broke in they're actually pretty good. It seems like the QC isn't there since it seems to be hit or miss? I lost a few hairs but no more than any other brush.

It is unfortunate. This brush is just starting to get nice and soft and not so scratchy. I'm still going to use it till it falls apart completely but when I get some new brushes I think I'm going to relegate it to scalp duty.

 

[Bookworm]

My VDH brush loses bristles as well, but I've never assumed they were coming out of the glue. I feel that they're just breaking off at the base and dropping. It hasn't affect the brush itself, just looks strange.

I soak in water while getting things ready, then pop off the worst of the water, then lather directly on the soap. if it doesn't seem to be working like it should, I add more water, and continue. When done, I turn the brush upside down in the stream of water, fill the bristles, then squeeze the water out (handle up), and repeat until I don't see white ARKO water (or VDH/Mug water) anymore. I then squeeze it out, snap it a few times, and hang it up over the mini-bowl that I used for soaking.

Usually it sits for at least a full day before being used again, sometimes two days, so it's generally pretty dry.

I just think that whoever VDH uses for their supplier does something to the brush chemically that makes the hair more brittle. Possibly whatever keeps the pig stink down.

 

[John Rose]

Bigger is not necessarily better.
My top three favourite brushes that I own have knot diameters of 20 (Omega 86), 18 (Simpson Special 1), and 14 mm (Simpson Wee Scot).

 

[Alex_Kinzor]

My VDH brush loses bristles as well, but I've never assumed they were coming out of the glue. I feel that they're just breaking off at the base and dropping. It hasn't affect the brush itself, just looks strange.

I soak in water while getting things ready, then pop off the worst of the water, then lather directly on the soap. if it doesn't seem to be working like it should, I add more water, and continue. When done, I turn the brush upside down in the stream of water, fill the bristles, then squeeze the water out (handle up), and repeat until I don't see white ARKO water (or VDH/Mug water) anymore. I then squeeze it out, snap it a few times, and hang it up over the mini-bowl that I used for soaking.

Usually it sits for at least a full day before being used again, sometimes two days, so it's generally pretty dry.

I just think that whoever VDH uses for their supplier does something to the brush chemically that makes the hair more brittle. Possibly whatever keeps the pig stink down.

I'm starting to think you may be right. I described my pre-shave procedure and so far no one has pointed out anything I could be doing incorrectly and the glue is just a guess. I'm unsure where VdH gets their knots from, though I assume their point of manufacture is China.

As for the function it isn't exactly malfunctioning, just shedding enough to annoy me. I don't like having to pick bristles out of the sink or off my face while shaving. Glue or not, I'm wanting to replace it and relegate it to scalp duty. Fully drying out naturally happens as I usually shave every other day--excluding weekends (unless I'm working on a Saturday or Sunday).

 

[EPfarnie]

The options aren't easy to sort through.. I spent a bit of time this week trying to work out what new brush would best suit my needs.. I'm pretty much exclusively face lather with mostly hard soaps.. so need soft bristles but plenty of back bone in a medium sized brush.

I was excited about my Edwin Jagger synthetic (21P36) but I just find it's too soft for effective use with hard soaps so I rarely ever use it these days.. I understand that Omega and Plissoft make some high quality synthetics these days.

My impressions from my 'research'; there are many suitable brushes with many different combinations of handle type and shape, loft height, knot diameter. But it seems that; Any of the cheap Omega boars are high quality brushes acceptable for face lathering on hard soaps .. I used a cheap 10075 ($9) for about 5 years until I dropped it one two many times and the resin handle split. I replaced it with a 11648 ($14) and have used that for about 12 months.. both of these are around 21 mm diameter with under 50mm loft (I used the 10075 for something different today and loved the lather I managed to get off it.. 5 years use managed to soften the bristles well beyond what I've managed to achieve in a year with the 11648).

Others on the forum recommend the 10066 as a cheap all purpose boar. There is a lot of love for the 10048 and 49 (Proffesional series) but many consider these rather large when face lathering.

I ended up ordering two Semogues this week (criteria was boar brushes with acrylic handles for face lathering); the 830 and the 620. I'm not looking to build up a brush collection. Just have a couple of quality options to rotate between. After reading a lot on the B&B forums I believe that the 620 will provide me with many years of excellent face lathering.

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