LOADS of newbie questions... try to answer'm all if you dare :D

[over_kill]

Ok guys, so it's been a while since I've posted here. I got interesting in straights about a year ago, but was never able to persue it until know. Kitchen knives are my big thing, and I've had to focuse all my time learing about that... and funds to. But I just started using a straight today and well... There were some issues. Let me give the gear set up. I have all choceras 400-10k with no gaps. And will be guying the entire Shapton GS stone set soon and a natural stone set from So of Japan-Tool later on this summer. Oh and I have Belgian Blue. Can't forget that one. What can I say, I love stones... So I guess that makes a stoner.
For the razor, it's my bro's. He bought it a while ago and only use it once or so, and never was set up tp take care of. If I'm getting this right it's a Waker Feinster Hohlschliff...?... I think he said was in the $250.00 range.
So yesterday I decide that I was going to try and sharpen it according to a youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_sduST5lHw&playnext_from=TL&videos=YDNs0_82qTo

By kitchen knife standards it was screaming sharp. I worked the edge on a Chocera 5k then 10 for about half an hour then stropped it on a Hand America bench strop with CrOx. So I figured, hey, this is gonna go great! Even though I had read that for kitchen knives Chocersa produce an edge that is on par with sex (which I can attest to)... for razors it was not as much the case. So a side of me admitted that in spite of my positive out look on this, it wasn't going to work out...
This morning my face concluded that either I suck or the choceras are not good for this set up. No cuts, but it hurt... I felt like I was ripping the hairs out more then brushing them away. So I said screw it for today and just finished with a cheap disposable razor.

So guys, what up? Any advice on where to start, and what I did wrong?

2 more things... I'm not good enough to drop the coin on this yet but are there any razor made out of the following steels that you can recommend?

Cowry-X
52100 ( I know Butch Harner makes them but that's it to my knowledge)
White #1
Tamahagena

And secondly, what you you like more Western style or Japanese and why?

Thanks for everything guys!

-Charlie

 

[Seraphim]

I know nothing about sharpening kitchen knives, but one very important thing when honing razors is the use of a very light touch when finishing them off. The razor blade is flexible, and if you press down, the blade flexes, and the very cutting edge lifts off of the stone, and you are at that point wasting your time....

So, you have to develop your own feel for how an edge is progressing when honing.

I would say that there is plenty of opinions that the Chosera 10K certainly does not suck for finishing a razor.


Did you lap the hones flat first?

 

[Huxley]

Sounds to me you applied your knife sharpening skills to your razor, big mistake i did the same when i first started out like chris says you need to use a light touch and get a feel for the edge develop.

With the stropping you may have rolled the edge, did you test the edge after each progression that way you'll know where you come unstuck.

 

[Pete_T]

What they said above. I did the same thing, too much pressure going from knives to razors.

Also, you may not have had a proper bevel set. You have to get that right or else everything else is pointless. This pretty much means you want to sharpen on your 1k till you can shave arm and leg hair easily for the entire blade-or that it feels "sticky"... or passes whatever test you decide on liking, there are a few. If you search here and google for "set a bevel" you'll find some articles on it.

 

[AFDavis11]

Unlike the others I would assume you tried to follow the video. I don't really have time to watch it and comment fully. I would suggest that despite the beauty of a video learning to hone by watching one isn't very productive.

Here are some important keys to honing.

Learn something about edge testing . . . if nothing else spend some time evaluating true, razor like, sharpness. A microscope is an optional cheat item here. Edge tests are NOT binary. You don't pass them, they tell you things about the razor's sharpness.

Develop a fantastic, disciplined, stroke that uses/applies no pressure while the razor is in transit down the hone. This alone, takes a long, long time. Think of balancing a razor in your fingers first, developing the motion, and then apply the stone after you've got the mechanics of the stroke down. Don't try using the stone right off the bat.

Read up and think about a honing strategy. A strategy will take you to the "bevel creation" stage, past sharp, and into razor like blistering "finishes". Consider all three steps and read up on techniques to get you there.

In some ways honing a razor is like climbing a ladder of grit progression, a progression that a knife honer might blush at . . . 1K, 4K, 8K, 12K, 16K. All fun rungs for the straight razor honer. But, one bad stroke on the way, or one push on a low grit stone and a lot of progress is lost. Lost, but not forgotten. So, you may think you've been honing a lot, but the razor still won't get sharp. Your mind is telling you that you've done a mighty amount of strokes, but only the good ones actually count. The rest throw you back to square one. Imagine climbing a ladder, then momentarily standing on the lowest rung, and being surprised by your lack of climbing progress.

 

[over_kill]

First off, thank you all for everyone's participation. It is much appreciated. Learning curves with me are usually fraut with uncommonly large amounts of mistakes, so thanks for helping me avoid some of them over and over again.
I'm going to try to take the razor to the lower grits then progress up to the finest leves, and not skip a grit.. And yes, I ALWAYS make sure to lap my stones. Even though I'm just getting in to razors, when you do traditional single bevel Japanese knives your stones must be uncompromisingly flat, so I most certainly understand how paramount it is for them to be so.
I was wondering about one thing though. I have seen a few new razors and when lying them down on the stone they don't seem to make full contact at both ends on the stones, unless pressure is applied........ is this normal for new blades? Do I need to grind them flat or is this a defect that I coincidently have come across with the past 3 razors I've handled?

Thanks guys! -Charlie