Let's talk paste theory

[Chrisl]

Why? Why not?

I haven't seen anyone say they've done this already in large part I would think due to the initial cost involved, but I'd like some opinions on whether or not you think it would be possible to backhone a straight razor from start to finish using diamond pastes and ending with chrome ox or cerium oxide?

I'm talking taking an Ebay special razor, "breadknifing" the bevel if thought necessary and starting the initial bevel setting with diamond paste say in the 30 micron range (approx 500 grit) and going up the ladder to .5 micron diamond and as previously mentioned finishing with chrome ox or cermium oxide.

I know it would be possible, but of course the key importance as I see it would be:

1. Would the final shaving edge be one of integrity which would hold up to an acceptable number of shaves between "touch ups" or would it degrade quickly?
2. Would the shaving edge provide the comfort most desirable in an edge rather than being "harsh"?

I'd like to think it can be done successfully. Sure, the idea would make a stone purist recoil or dismiss it. I like my array of hones and stones, but I also like challenging things simply to challenge (take a peek at my avatar and my results in ripping a Shapton 1k glass stone in half).

The appropriate substrates would be a factor in regard to their flatness, but IMO not as much of a factor as is preferred for a traditional edge leading stone/hone.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Chris L

 

[Olivia]

What would the carrier be? Strop, wood or a stone?
Because of the angle.
Generally I wouldn't see a problem. With backhoning not either.
Basically films work the same. Don't they?

 

[Bacchus]

I think you may get a burr, especially with the lower grits, but if you run the razor over wood as an example (only with the low grit, like after the bevel has been set), I think it would be fine and Im quite curious as to how it would shave

 

[SavantStrike]

I was under the impression that films were used as a hone substitute, so the motion would be edge leading unlike with a strop where the motion is spine leading.

I would have to say that it might be technically possible to sharpen the blade with paste, but I'm not sure how well the edge would hold up (although bear in mind I'm a n00b ).

I would feel a lot better if the blade in the experiment had a bevel set on a stone before moving to the paste though, the experiment would then have a higher probability of success.

Didn't the Japanese sharpen blades with the spine leading instead of the edge leading? If so then that proves it should be possible to put a shaving edge on a blade on paste if the surface was flat enough and hard enough.

 

[Olivia]

I mean that films are also compound put onto something.
Spine leading or back and thro or edge leading or 90° angle .... it all works with no ill effect but of course you must not do it.
Heard someone saying that spine leading would be good to minimize microchipping.

I've tried some cerium oxide on a hone lately but it was quite a mess
(and dished the poor hone quite well).

 

[TstebinsB]

Using diamond lapping film, I've taken chips out of eBay razors on 400 grit sandpaper and done a progression of 9 micron, 6 micron, 3 micron, 1 micron, 0.5 micron to a shave ready edge. All this was done with the edge leading.

 

[Olivia]

Whow, 400 is rough, but probbly effective!
Well, my working crate for this weekend is quite full.
Will make some tests.

 

[TstebinsB]

Oh yeah. The 9 micron is very coarse but some razors have such a bad bevel that higher grits are a waste of time.

 

[Chrisl]

What would the substrate be?

I've used balsa of course with chrome ox and have found it to be very effective as a finisher and touch up tool. Spine leading on the balsa. I've stropped razors on a hanging canvas strop with 1 mic and .5 mic diamond sprays. After coming off the .5 mic, a level that you'd think you'd want to avoid purposely trying to get rid of any potential burr, I've had no problems whatsoever drawing the razor's edge with the weight of the blade only on the edge of some balsa (not the end grain, but a side corner). Then, 50 laps on the chrome ox pasted (mixed with Norton honing oil) balsa and beautiful shaves.

I've used hard maple lapped with finer grit all purpose (not wet/dry) sandpaper on a Woodcraft purchased granite surface plate. I've done both edge leading and spine leading with diamond pasted on the maple block. I did prefer the spine leading; the edge didn't dig into the block when I honed edge leading, but the edge did have a tendency to scrape up even trace amounts of the paste after a number of passes.

I've also used some of the basswood plywood in 3" strips found at hobby stores for diamond pastes.

To date, I've only used the 3 mic, 1 mic and .5 mic in both spray and the DMT pastes (a bit too thick for my taste).

If I pull the trigger on this experiment from bevel set through shave test with pastes I'd either want to find a non-wood substrate for the various grits (I would probably paste each side of a substrate with two different grits) or find a non-water based paste or spray for all grits to minimize raising the grain of any wood, although this didn't seem like an issue with the hard maple.

It seems the polycrystalline diamonds are not readily available in the coarser grits but after researching this I think the poly over the mono would be preferred for razors. I'd start with mono on coarse grits and transition to poly for the finer grits.

Just some ideas bouncing around in my head.

I know others have good times with the honing films. I have the 3M honing films both PSA and non and they weren't my cup of tea.

Chris L

 

[mparker762]

If you do this glue the wood down to a tile or something similar to prevent it from warping. Then place it where it will eventually be stored, and leave it there for a few days to allow the moisture to stabilize. Then lap it flat with 400 grit sandpaper.

 

[Olivia]

just tried the chipped blade on 400 grit sand paper method!
Its such a shortcut! Unbelievable, hehehe
Could be a shortcut to hell if one's not careful about the bevel though.
I like that!
Thank you, Telly!

 

[Chrisl]

Randy Tuttle, aka Randydance has used wet/dry sandpaper as his bevel setting tool for years and swears by it. And......the guy knows his stuff!

Chris L

 

[mparker762]

I use 600 grit wet/dry for dechipping. It does leave a slightly rounded bevel though unless you glue it down. I've also used it for reshaping tips and spines.