Let's Talk Bevel Angle

[Darth Scandalous]

@2bit_collie reminded me of something. I have a Hoshi Tombo frameback that I got NOS and never measured the bevel angle. But the bevel reveal is tiny, so...just pulled out the calipers and it's 19.7 or so. I like how it shaves.

 

[Slash McCoy]

From knife honing I absolutely believe that a narrower bevel angle should give a sharper edge. Though in fairness the range of angle is much broader for knives than for razors. For straight razors I have not really seen this. I do measure the bevel angle of every razor I acquire, as part of my documentation process. Everything is between 15-20 degrees. If I were to pick my favorite straights to use they would be all over that range. In particular my Japanese razors tend to run fat (I think I average almost 19 degrees across 5 razors) yet they all shave superbly. Would they shave BETTER if they were down at 17 degrees? That seems logical. But I don’t have the experience others have with taking down the spine width to get the narrower bevel angle.

Nah. Don't. If it shaves good, don't try to do major stuff like redefine the geometry. Do that when a razor just won't shave like you want, and the bevel angle seems to be the culprit, and you have plenty of time on your hands.

 

[Eastcoast30]

Just a reminder here. If you hone with tape, you must take your measurements with tape.

 

[Grayswandir]

I will start. I recently picked up this "bad" little Union Spike 9/16* near wedge. Looks like it has never been used and still has its factory edge, so before doing anything I decided to measure the bevel angle and came up with 16.44 degrees. I measured a bunch of razors multiple times each to build my confidence in measuring the hypotenuse. Just for fun, let's call the bevel angle of this razor 16.5 +- 0.5 degrees. I have to believe that the folks in Olean, NY designed and intended this razor to have a bevel angle around 16.5 degrees, and never even thought about a bunch of guys putting layers of tape on the spine, so my plan is to first put this baby on my Naniwa 12k without tape (or perhaps with one layer of Kapton) to try to preserve the factory bevel and experience what the makers intended. I am also wondering if Union designed their razors to have different bevel angles based on the grind.

Comments are appreciated.

*The box says 9/16, but I measure the hypotenuse between 9/16 and 5/8.

View attachment 1380722

The razor looks to be in beautiful shape, very nice.

 

[Sando]

I will start. I recently picked up this "bad" little Union Spike 9/16* near wedge. Looks like it has never been used and still has its factory edge, so before doing anything I decided to measure the bevel angle and came up with 16.44 degrees. I measured a bunch of razors multiple times each to build my confidence in measuring the hypotenuse. Just for fun, let's call the bevel angle of this razor 16.5 +- 0.5 degrees. I have to believe that the folks in Olean, NY designed and intended this razor to have a bevel angle around 16.5 degrees, and never even thought about a bunch of guys putting layers of tape on the spine, so my plan is to first put this baby on my Naniwa 12k without tape (or perhaps with one layer of Kapton) to try to preserve the factory bevel and experience what the makers intended. I am also wondering if Union designed their razors to have different bevel angles based on the grind.

Comments are appreciated.

*The box says 9/16, but I measure the hypotenuse between 9/16 and 5/8.

View attachment 1380722

She’s a great example of American razor making. How’d the shaves go?

Recently, I calculated the bevels of the 11 razors in my rotation having been inspired by a different bevel angle thread. The measure from 15.7* to 20.2*, averaging 18.4*, on the high end of the accepted range? It was interesting doing the calculations.

 

[Frank Shaves]

She’s a great example of American razor making. How’d the shaves go?

Excellent - great little shaver!

As the OP, I can't believe that I never finished my story. I ended up honing the Union Spike, which started at 16.44, with one layer of Kapton bringing the angle up to about 17. I have now finished the razor with both my Naniwa 12k and a Coticule, getting excellent edges.

I highly recommend the Union Spike, plus it has a certain je ne sais quoi.

 

[neiasden]

It seems different mfg's used different angles perhaps even varying for grinds within the line up.
I've always found Bokers to be crazy lean. I just measured an Edelweiss that came in at 14.7.
As you can imagine it produces an incredible edge but does not retain it for the same amount of time as some others.
After having honed many hundreds of razors over 19 years I almost never measure the angle of one I pick up.
People are obsessed with it like it will make a razor unusable being???.
If the razor does not look right off the bat, of course I would investigate via some measurements.
Some are lean, some are heavy, they can all shave great unless they are on the outset of plus or minus.
When they are - they look it and feel like it, at least to me they do.

This is another reason why I recommend for someone learning to hone to use a layer of tape till they sort things out.
Imagine someone starting with this razor and taking too much off the spine making it sub 14. It would be catastrophic.

since I don't know much about any of this I'm just going to go out on a limb and ask, WTH is a bevel angle? measuring it? I have calipers but I wouldn't know but I'm measuring. now that my curiosity is brewing

 

[Frank Shaves]

since I don't know much about any of this I'm just going to go out on a limb and ask, WTH is a bevel angle? measuring it? I have calipers but I wouldn't know but I'm measuring. now that my curiosity is brewing

This question comes up periodically. Here is one such discussion:

Tape or no tape - new question on old topic

You are assuming that the only way taped honing affects the bevel angle is by temporarily raising the spine. This is not correct. There is also cumulative effect, when the edge is honed but the spine is not. Simply resetting the bevel without tape does not undo that damage. Slight, yes. The...

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