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Let’s talk about X-Strokes

I’ve been honing for about 5 minutes and have developed a “gefährliches halb Wissen” German for dangerous half knowledge. This is where you know enough about a subject to question the established wisdom without fully understanding all of the finer points. Armed with this half knowledge I’d like to challenge the traditional x-stroke.

Why do we use the X-Stroke?

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On the face of it, the x-stroke seems to have been developed as a way to use thinner more economical hones. I think there is probably more to it than that and the truth may be the other way round. That thinner hones were developed to use the x-stroke. The main advantages I see to the x-stroke are as follows.

1. The x-stroke makes up for less than perfect stone and razor geometry. By moving the razor in an x-stroke you constantly change the point of contact and catch areas where you might be getting poor contact. Useful for honing smiles, frowns, twists and warps or using stones that aren’t quite flat.

2. The x-stroke adds a shearing action to the apex while honing that helps to strip a fin edge and prevent fin edges from forming.

3. It is one way of using a hone that is thinner than the blade is wide.

Problems with the X-Stroke

The x-stroke is not without its problems.

1. By using an x-stroke you are putting uneven wear on the blade. The toe of the razor is spending more time on the hone than the heal. This problem becomes progressively worse as the hone gets wider. As the stone gets thinner this effect reduces which may be why older hones were thinner. With an infinitely thin hone, like a round honing steel for example, the problem disappears all together.

2. As you get less and less blade on the hone it becomes harder and harder to keep the blade flat. This makes it hard to maintain even and flat contact with the hone. Poor contact and changing pressure invites blade distortion through honing.

Alternatives to the X-Stroke

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To me it seems that heel leading strokes are a good alternative to the traditional x-stroke. This is essentially an x-stroke with the hone laid out at an angle in line with the direction of the stroke. The angle of the blade against the stones is the same.

Heel leading is preferred because you avoid clashes with the blade stabiliser of present. You can use steep angles that mimic very short x-strokes.

Advantages are:

1. Wear on the blade is even
2. With more blade on the hone maintaining good and even contact is easier.

Disadvantages are:

1. Relies on perfectly flat stones and perfectly straight edges
2. The technique works best with long wide hones. Short hones can be a limiting factor.
3. There is an area of the spine that doesn’t make contact with the hone. Over time this could create a high spot on the spine. For this reason heal and toe leading strokes should be used sparingly

What have I missed?

Am I missing any other reasons why the x-stroke has been taught and has become so established in the honing literature.
 
No, you have all the info.
In Barbering books "it sets the teeth at the correct angle" Maybe to go with the vintage 2-2.5" strops
No 3" vintage strops I'm afraid. Why?
I would think the flatness of the stone over time has the most reason for it. You seldom read about vintage hones and keeping them flat as a priority.
Uneven wear can be controlled with pressure if you know what you are doing.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I'm with you on this one @Tomo. I never really liked doing the traditional X strokes (either honing or stropping) and very early on adopted your alternative X strokes, normally with a bit of heel leading. I still use a few short normal X strokes during my honing to help keep the edge "clean".
 
I made a 3" strop with leather specifically sold for razor stropping. No X-strokes for me!

Nope. Turns out the leather isn't perfectly flat. It might be 3" wide but I still have to use a combination of X-strokes and repeated straight strokes on different parts of the blade.

That's life I guess. If you didn't enjoy waving a blade back and forward, up and down, side to side, over and over and over... you wouldn't take up straight razor shaving. It's all part of the magic ;)
 
I generally use stones prepared with the convex surface with my full hollows. The narrow contact point really seems to insure even contact when using the X-stroke. That’s become my personal preference over time.
 
1. By using an x-stroke you are putting uneven wear on the blade. The toe of the razor is spending more time on the hone than the heal.
I remember as a newbie making this same argument to Sham. His response was that 'This is the age old argument that we always hear.' Then I said. 'Well, I'm keeping up the tradition'. By the second day of the meet the X stroke made perfect sense to me and I never looked back.

Before I got to the meet I was honing smiling razors with a rolling X, and straight edge razors with a straight stroke. It was obvious that the 'toe is on the hone longer argument' didn't apply to a smile. Once I started thinking this way the X stroke on all razors started making a lot more sense.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I always use a slight x stroke. It just seems like the right thing to do. I also do a little bit of windshield wiper action, too.
 
Your hone is not flat. Oh I know you think it is... It's not.

That's why you use the x stroke.

Because beveling is a game of skill not time, and after beveling, every part of your razor DOESN'T NEED EXACTLY THE SAME TIME ON THE HONE. You are ONLY concerned with the part that may not yet be ready to move on. And if that's the heel and the toe was honed 30 passes ago .. so what?

Conversely... If a furrow has formed on the stone in the center... Not sufficient you notice it and lap but sufficient there are gaps in contact... Now a straight motion is a problem.

I know lots of guys who can edge knives like you wouldn't believe who break the edge into sections (subdivide not physically break, of course) and hone each part independently for every knife of any decent size... Boy you'd hate their technique.

You're getting everything sharp by understanding the process, not by striving for perfect equality across the blade, and only monitoring one part.
 
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Your hone is not flat. Oh I know you think it is... It's not.

That's why you use the x stroke.

Because beveling is a game of skill not time, and after beveling, every part of your razor DOESN'T NEED EXACTLY THE SAME TIME ON THE HONE. You are ONLY concerned with the part that may not yet be ready to move on. And if that's the heel and the toe was honed 30 passes ago .. so what?

Conversely... If a furrow has formed on the stone in the center... Not sufficient you notice it and lap but sufficient there are gaps in contact... Now a straight motion is a problem.

I know lots of guys who can edge knives like you wouldn't believe who break the edge into sections (subdivide not physically break, of course) and hone each part independently for every knife of any decent size... Boy you'd hate their technique.

You're getting everything sharp by understanding the process, not by striving for perfect equality across the blade, and only monitoring one part.
Well stated Ian. I was going to say that a idea of a perfectly flat hone, with even cutting over its whole surface, and a perfectly ground razor is fiction.

This thread should be paired here;Warp vs Bad Grind - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/warp-vs-bad-grind.600856/#post-11064659
 
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Your hone is not flat. Oh I know you think it is... It's not.

That's why you use the x stroke.

Because beveling is a game of skill not time, and after beveling, every part of your razor DOESN'T NEED EXACTLY THE SAME TIME ON THE HONE. You are ONLY concerned with the part that may not yet be ready to move on. And if that's the heel and the toe was honed 30 passes ago .. so what?

Conversely... If a furrow has formed on the stone in the center... Not sufficient you notice it and lap but sufficient there are gaps in contact... Now a straight motion is a problem.

I know lots of guys who can edge knives like you wouldn't believe who break the edge into sections (subdivide not physically break, of course) and hone each part independently for every knife of any decent size... Boy you'd hate their technique.

You're getting everything sharp by understanding the process, not by striving for perfect equality across the blade, and only monitoring one part.
That's a winner! Lots of things people think are flat are not that flat at all. My machinist surface plate is a cheap model. Only flat to within 0.0002 of an inch. Now a human hair averages about 0.003, so that is pretty darn flat, but most things we think of as flat aren't even close.
 
As the stone gets thinner this effect reduces which may be why older hones were thinner.
stones prepared with the convex surface with my full hollows. The narrow contact point really seems to insure even contact when using the X-stroke.
Because beveling is a game of skill not time, and after beveling, every part of your razor DOESN'T NEED EXACTLY THE SAME TIME ON THE HONE.

All of this. Comes with good experience and discussion.
 
So, I don't have the depth of experience of many of the previous response, but I have noticed that the more I hone, the more I tend toward X-strokes.

My early honing was all on synthetics. Nice and wide and long and I used straight strokes. I also noticed lots of hone wear as I tried to get a bevel along the entire length. Of course, it turned out that my hones were dished and my flattening stone was convex. A diamond lapping plate and a precision straight edge solved that, but I still struggled with excessive wear.

Lately I've been doing my mid-range and finishing on coticule bouts. That means X-strokes since the length and width of the stones just isn't sufficient to have the whole edge in contact and make a stroke. Muscle memory then also lead me to using X-strokes on the synthetic bevel setter with the result being a sharp edge along the whole length and a significant reduction in my hone wear.

IMHO: X-strokes work.
 
Great discussion gents. Most of my stones are wide but I still throw in some light x-strokes in line with the general wisdom, same on the strop. I mostly do this because that’s what everyone says to do and I like to know why we do it.

Evening out the effect of stone and razor imperfections with different types of strokes makes a lot of sense to me. In the real world nothing is perfect. The other thing I like to do is turn the stone around 180 degrees half way through honing. This again ensures that different parts of the razor are coming into contact with different parts of the stone.

Absolutely - always flipping the stones.
 
Because beveling is a game of skill not time, and after beveling, every part of your razor DOESN'T NEED EXACTLY THE SAME TIME ON THE HONE. You are ONLY concerned with the part that may not yet be ready to move on. And if that's the heel and the toe was honed 30 passes ago .. so what?


Ahhh. Finally, someone has answered that question that has always bothered me. Yeah, I get why we have to do x strokes, because at the microscopic level things aren't flat.

But it always bothered me that the toe was getting more stone time. When I had a shoulderless razor I'd try to avoid that concern by starting the heel high up on the stone with the toe hanging in air above the stone, so that as it x stroked down, every bit would end up with the same amount of stone time. But most of my razors are shouldered, so I couldn't do that.

But this makes so much sense. The answer is "yes, but it doesn't matter". If it takes forty laps to get the full benefit of that grade of grit before moving to the next stage in the progression, and you've done forty laps, it causes no harm if the toe actually got the equivalent of fifty or sixty laps.
 
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