Le Supreme or Hol'Pif?

[Clouds]

This mystery arrived yesterday.

My big question - What exactly is it? I know that @Snowbeard has a Hol'Pif and enlisted his help. All the Hol'Pif pictures are his - big thanks to him.
All images have the Unknown first and Snowbeards Hol'Pif at the end.

It arrived in a Le Supreme Box but looking at it - it screams Hol'Pif.
(Snowbeard has misplaced his box and I'm sure when he finds it he will update this thread)

I'll start at the top.
The Le Supreme is a differential and the Hol'Pif's is not. The Le Supreme has a notch in the topcap and base plate that indicates the orientation. This one is not differential so does not have alignment notches.

Lets lift the bonnet.
The posts are on the top cap like a Le Supreme while a Hol'Pif posts are on the base plate.
Ah but there is a slight difference - the pins are chamfered and a bit flattened. The ones on the Le Supreme are more rounded.
The base plate has round holes vs the oblong holes of the Le Supreme

Moving down to under the base plate. The Le Supreme is branded with "LE SUPREME" on one side and "RASOIR REGLABLE / B TE S.G.D.G. on the other. The Hol'Pif has no branding - this is the latter.

The adjuster dial:
The knurling on a Le Supreme is coarser than a Hol'Pif. This has the finer knurling.
The fonts are also slightly different, this has the Hol'Pif font.

The handle could be either. I have a Le Supreme with the same knurling but the handle is 1mm thicker.

We now move onto the Twist-knob
It has the groove in the middle like a Le Supreme but the fine knurling of a Hol'Pif
The underneath is not hollowed out, so also like a Hol'Pif, but its more chamfered.

Last but not least - Hol'Pif's the handles are also removable while Le Supremes are not.

Everything except the pins under the topcap and the case indicate Le Supreme but pretty much everything else says Hol'Pif. The twist knob seems to be a hybrid of the two.

We believe that L'Essor took over a bankrupt Hol'Pif and continued with the Le Supreme.
Best guess at the moment is from @Cha-wing!! - Some sort of transition model.

What say the wise ones here?

 

[Rob72]

What say the wise ones here?

Is there anything you might consider in trade for one of your darlings...?

You asked an open-ended question!

 

[Cha-wing!!]

My knowledge here is far behind, so I'm listening as well !

 

[Snowbeard]

Just a clarification, if I may. I believe that the photos are oriented as:

First: The unknown mystery razor found by Clouds, in a Le Supreme case.

Middle Photos (sometimes 1 photo and sometimes 2): Two different versions of the Le Supreme razor.

Third: A Hol'Pif (luckily mine!)

Hope this is correct, and helps others with the flow.

 

[Northstonehill]

Great thread Claudio - and a superb score, you must have a full drawer of these puppies by now!

Sadly, I have no additional knowledge and have never held a Hol’Pif… My own set is clearly a standard Supreme through and through.

Maybe @HDSledge can pitch in - I believe he holds both models and has great knowledge on them.

 

[HDSledge]

Great thread Claudio - and a superb score, you must have a full drawer of these puppies by now!

Sadly, I have no additional knowledge and have never held a Hol’Pif… My own set is clearly a standard Supreme through and through.

Maybe @HDSledge can pitch in - I believe he holds both models and has great knowledge on them.

Unfortunately I only own the Supreme. The documentation for both is almost identical so they are close family.

 

[Snowbeard]

Is the Hol'Pif the same on both sides (non differential), unlike the Le Supreme? If so, I'm not sure I realized that, or I've forgotten. That is one significant difference! Judging by these photos I just took (admittedly not the best way to decide), it looks like the gaps are just about the same on both sides of the Hol'Pif, as expected. I'll try to confirm with tomorrow's shave. If so, I think I'll start to see these two razors in slightly different lights. Vive la difference! Thanks for bringing that out, Clouds!

 

[Snowbeard]

Clouds,
Having thought about it and having reread your thread from the start, I'm definitely thinking you've got a Hol'Pif there. It's got more Hol'pif characteristics than Le Supreme, and I think the non-differential nature of the razor (compared to the Le Supreme) clinches it! So, one vote for Hol'Pif!

 

[Clouds]

Great thread Claudio - and a superb score, you must have a full drawer of these puppies by now!

Sadly, I have no additional knowledge and have never held a Hol’Pif… My own set is clearly a standard Supreme through and through.

Maybe @HDSledge can pitch in - I believe he holds both models and has great knowledge on them.

Thanks Peter
No drawer full, I have the three. (I can't really put "Only" in there can I!)
I didn't think that HD had a Hol'Pif.

 

[Snowbeard]

Is the Hol'Pif the same on both sides (non differential), unlike the Le Supreme? If so, I'm not sure I realized that, or I've forgotten. That is one significant difference! Judging by these photos I just took (admittedly not the best way to decide), it looks like the gaps are just about the same on both sides of the Hol'Pif, as expected. I'll try to confirm with tomorrow's shave. If so, I think I'll start to see these two razors in slightly different lights. Vive la difference! Thanks for bringing that out, Clouds!

View attachment 1504436View attachment 1504437View attachment 1504439View attachment 1504440

Well, I can confirm that both sides of the Hol'Pif are indeed the same. Both sides of the razor massage your face in an equal (and stunningly good) manner!

 

[Old School TSD]

I just stumbled into a Le Supreme today! WooHoooo. Haven't figured out the one in front of it yet. Says Tres on one side, not the other and the gap is significantly different if you flip the base plate or not.

 

[HDSledge]

Looks like a Bohin. Le Supreme is in the wrong case? Mine has Le Supreme on the lid lining. Nice finds!

 

[Old School TSD]

Looks like a Bohin. Le Supreme is in the wrong case? Mine has Le Supreme on the lid lining. Nice finds!

Has the oblong holes and pins on the top cap.
Case I couldn't say. Left over? Who knows, don't care lol!

 

[Clouds]

I just stumbled into a Le Supreme today! WooHoooo. Haven't figured out the one in front of it yet. Says Tres on one side, not the other and the gap is significantly different if you flip the base plate or not.

Its a Bohin.
Your Le Supreme is a differential head.
Your pic in the Gibbs thread shows the alignment notches BUT it has the Hol Pif adjuster dial - fine knurling and the 4 is not closed off.

 

[Old School TSD]

Its a Bohin.
Your Le Supreme is a differential head.
Your pic in the Gibbs thread shows the alignment notches BUT it has the Hol Pif adjuster dial - fine knurling and the 4 is not closed off.

Not following you, have pics to reference please?
Not arguing, but was pointed to other threads that call out the pins in the top cap and oblong holes, as well as the blue and red setting markers... seemed pretty cut and dry, but if you know better this would be the place to put up some explanation pics.

 

[Clouds]

Not following you, have pics to reference please?
Not arguing, but was pointed to other threads that call out the pins in the top cap and oblong holes, as well as the blue and red setting markers... seemed pretty cut and dry, but if you know better this would be the place to put up some explanation pics.

Look at my first post in the thread - second image down.
The Le Supremes have alignment notches. This is because its a differential head. The gap is different on each side when the alignment notches are lined up.

Move down to the part where I talk about the adjuster dial.
The Le Supremes have a coarser knurling. They also used a different font. Look at the 4's. The down stroke/line on the 4 is joined at the top of the Le Supremes and broken on the Hol'Pif's. The were using up the old parts.

 

[Old School TSD]

Additionally, the Hol Pif has a thick edged bottom knob and no top cap alignment red mark to my knowledge. L'Essor seems to have more varieties as to knurling pattern lines or diamonds etc.

 

[Old School TSD]

Look at my first post in the thread - second image down.
The Le Supremes have alignment notches. This is because its a differential head. The gap is different on each side when the alignment notches are lined up.

Move down to the part where I talk about the adjuster dial.
The Le Supremes have a coarser knurling. They also used a different font. Look at the 4's. The down stroke/line on the 4 is joined at the top of the Le Supremes and broken on the Hol'Pif's. The were using up the old parts.

Perhaps your confusion was the differential cap was backwards on mine when I got it? I just spun it around as you can see in the pic I posted above. Hol Pif was pre L'Essor, which was pure Gibbs I believe... I'd prefer it be the earlier Hol Pif, but I don't believe it is.
All things but your font claim point to L'Essor Le Supreme... I'm not giving much credence to that as I've seen reference both ways in the interwebs over the last 24 hours of research. Seems like Gillette they used all the parts they had available up.

 

[Old School TSD]

Perhaps your confusion was the differential cap was backwards on mine when I got it? I just spun it around as you can see in the pic I posted above. Hol Pif was pre L'Essor, which was pure Gibbs I believe... I'd prefer it be the earlier Hol Pif, but I don't believe it is.
All things but your font claim point to L'Essor Le Supreme... I'm not giving much credence to that as I've seen reference both ways in the interwebs over the last 24 hours of research. Seems like Gillette they used all the parts they had available up.

Can't edit...PRE Gibbs, not PURE Gibbs.

 

[BigJ]

This mystery arrived yesterday.

View attachment 1502950

My big question - What exactly is it? I know that @Snowbeard has a Hol'Pif and enlisted his help. All the Hol'Pif pictures are his - big thanks to him.
All images have the Unknown first and Snowbeards Hol'Pif at the end.

It arrived in a Le Supreme Box but looking at it - it screams Hol'Pif.
(Snowbeard has misplaced his box and I'm sure when he finds it he will update this thread)

I'll start at the top.
The Le Supreme is a differential and the Hol'Pif's is not. The Le Supreme has a notch in the topcap and base plate that indicates the orientation. This one is not differential so does not have alignment notches.

View attachment 1502953

Lets lift the bonnet.
The posts are on the top cap like a Le Supreme while a Hol'Pif posts are on the base plate.
Ah but there is a slight difference - the pins are chamfered and a bit flattened. The ones on the Le Supreme are more rounded.
The base plate has round holes vs the oblong holes of the Le Supreme

View attachment 1502954

Moving down to under the base plate. The Le Supreme is branded with "LE SUPREME" on one side and "RASOIR REGLABLE / B TE S.G.D.G. on the other. The Hol'Pif has no branding - this is the latter.

View attachment 1502955

The adjuster dial:
The knurling on a Le Supreme is coarser than a Hol'Pif. This has the finer knurling.
The fonts are also slightly different, this has the Hol'Pif font.

The handle could be either. I have a Le Supreme with the same knurling but the handle is 1mm thicker.

View attachment 1502956

We now move onto the Twist-knob
It has the groove in the middle like a Le Supreme but the fine knurling of a Hol'Pif
The underneath is not hollowed out, so also like a Hol'Pif, but its more chamfered.

View attachment 1502957

Last but not least - Hol'Pif's the handles are also removable while Le Supremes are not.

View attachment 1502958

Everything except the pins under the topcap and the case indicate Le Supreme but pretty much everything else says Hol'Pif. The twist knob seems to be a hybrid of the two.

We believe that L'Essor took over a bankrupt Hol'Pif and continued with the Le Supreme.
Best guess at the moment is from @Cha-wing!! - Some sort of transition model.

What say the wise ones here?

Great explanation and photos!!