Anyone doing it?
Lather on a Coticule
- Thread starter Alum of Potash
- Start date
I've done it quite a few times, it seemed to always make the edge sharper and smoother with a better HHT. If you're missing something on the finish you can always try it and it will improve your edge. I find tallow soap works better with a good lather, not watery.
I think it would have a similar effect to oil without the (possible) risk of damage. They use to recommend lather for barber hones. Give it a try.
Oil n Coti gives the Mojo much effect...Doc knows it best 
...keep in mind though slurry n oil are thick..lather can really thin out n dry out and might lead your blade in scraping along the stone
...keep in mind though slurry n oil are thick..lather can really thin out n dry out and might lead your blade in scraping along the stone
I don't think that would be too much of an issue. Some people use cotis dry.
I've used dish soap on my coticules with good effect in the past.
I've used dish soap on my coticules with good effect in the past.
Lather works great dried on a coticule especially a coarser stone
- Thread starter
- #7
Thanks guys. I tried some Bavarian slate with a thick non-tallow lather (La Toja) and it seemed to help there. Then I tried a coticule with a thin non-tallow lather (Palmolive) and it didn't seem to change things much. Only have a Valobra tallow shave stick on me right now, so I'll to "face-lather" with it somehow. Not really concerned about the lather drying out as this would only be for the final finishing strokes, just to build up a little cushion.
You need to use a lather like you shave with on the coticule and continuously reapply it with the back of the blade as you work it.
- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks, Ill try this with a non-tallow cream for now--I've sort of been going with four strokes of heavy cushion followed by around twelve-sixteen more strokes of whatever film is leftover afterwards. Otherwise, I really like this approach because it's like having the thick feel of the slurry, but at the finishing stage, and the lather slows down the visible reaction time of the solution on the blade and stone, more like oil than water.
What do you think of creating a soap scum build-up, as Scott suggests, on a paddle with 5k+ Bavarian slate to smooth it out further, and then use it dry? The slate really seems to benefit from a thick lather application.
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I'm not sure about the soap scum thing but I have rubbed a dry bar of soap on the coticule, rubbed it in with my hand to make it even on the stone, and then finished on that and had incredibly sharp finishes. You can use a puck of dry shave soap or stick and then rub it in with your hand.
I use lather on my La nouvelle as a touch-up whenever I want to squeeze more out of an edge and IT Does Work. The lather darkens so I know its cutting. It is like a perfect combination of oil and water for the after water stage.
I was just talking to my barber (he's in his 70s) about how he uses his coticule. He told me he uses it with lather. Never tried it myself but I think I might.
- Thread starter
- #13
I'm inclined to agree with your last sentence, but are you sure you want the lather to darken during the after-water "polishing" stage?
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Theres a video on youtube of an italian barber using a Coticule with lather and the lather turns dark.
- Thread starter
- #15
Perhaps he used lather from the start? So here's the thing: I have been using an oil-stone Arkansas progression (bevel-setting to finish) for the past seven-eight months, and the old accounts there often advise against letting too much swarf develop. I believe the idea was that the released metal particles clog the stone, and more importantly for the current subject in question, that they tend to float around banging against the knife or razor's edge, effectively dulling it in the process. Consequently, I have always changed my oil when it started to blacken (think automobile oil-change here). In watching the various coticle honing videos, particularly at the initial slurry stage, I am sometimes struck by how dark the slurry is allowed to become. Isn't this the clang of metal against metal once again? IMO, swarf should occur early on. If it arises later, a return to the earlier stones is called for. Sham had a video on this relative to artificial water-stones a while back, if I recall correctly. Something along the lines that if swarf arrives too quickly or plentifully on a 8k Norton, it meant that honing with the mid-range 4k Norton wasn't fully accomplished. With lather, aren't we talking finition stage with the coticle--or whatever stone may be handily available for the purpose? Or to resort to another example, does the lather used with a barber's hone ever darken?
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Gave this a shot today on an already shave ready razor. The razor had been done on lapping film followed by diamond the crox to smooth it out. I created some lather using MWF and went to doing a few sets of circles to start them followed by a 100+ (can't remember) x strokes. I got great HHT off the stone. Did 60/60 linen/leather and shaved.
The resulting shave was outstanding. Might just have to put this in my coticule routine.
The resulting shave was outstanding. Might just have to put this in my coticule routine.
- Thread starter
- #18
I followed your longer method today and it really seemed to help. I've got a 4/8 Boeker that's been giving me trouble ever since I dropped it and damaged the edge and had to breadknife it as a result. I've gone through the following progression to bring it back: 1k/6k Japanese Puma waterstone; la verte vein coticule (dilucot), ending with ~20 laps lather; 5 laps Dovo red paste, 5 laps Puma extrafein no. 3; 20 laps linen, 60 laps leather. The resulting shave was raw to say the least. Today, I tried 100+ laps on a small, underlying grise layer coticule with the same Palmolive lather I had whipped up for shaving, followed by 60 laps linen and 60 laps leather, and had a much smoother shave. Think I'll try 5 more laps on each side of the pasted paddle, followed by another 100 laps on the small coticule with lather, then 60/60 linen & leather tomorrow and see if it improves from there.
Personally, I like using the lather with a small, barber's hone-sized, hand-held coticule (bout) like this. I tried it on a counter with the larger green coticule after a dilucot, but then noticed that the lather seemed to leave a trace which subsequently acted as a resist in the earlier stages of using the coticule with straight water. When swarf started to form, it stuck to the resist, marking the surface of the coticule there significantly. I had to use the slurry stone to get rid of it. From this, I would perhaps be inclined to clean the coticule surface with Bon Ami cleanser and an old toothbrush after lathering it in this way.
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- Thread starter
- #19
Thought I'd return to this old thread, fwiw. Last couple of shaving sessions, I had a razor that was feeling harsh at the start of the first one, so I did several circles leading to a few X-strokes on an LGB bout with the lather I happened to be using (Stirling tallow rose). The feel of the shave improved significantly. After the shave, I did another cycle of circles to X-strokes with the remaining lather, cleaned off the blade, stropped it, and called it a day. Tonight's shave was really great. So smooth and yet those whiskers were laid low all the same. Both times honing with the lather, I was struck by its cushion. It was always there, and there seemed to be very little contact between the stone and the blade, if any. Most curious. Maybe this is what it means to have a "light touch."
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Yes it definitely does. I recently picked up an old Carborundum 103 and tried it with lather per the instructions and it definitely darkened up, even though I was using very little pressure. And this was on the side that I flattened with my Atoma 400 - which made it very smooth. The factory finish was much coarser in comparison, honing on the factory surface definitely would have cut faster and turned the lather even darker.
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