Lapping film, try it.

[Bevel]

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Does this look good enough?
I'm struggling to find lapping film without the PSA backing here in the UK. I don't want to have several pieces of acrylic - trying to keep the setup as minimal as possible!

That looks to be the stuff but it's coming from China so who knows.
There's a guy on ebay in Germany that would be better for you if you're UK based BUT it's more expensive at about $30ish per set.

 

[jtface]

So I marked my blade and did 10 full strokes on the 30u film. The wear is uneven despite over 100 laps on a previous effort.

Any suggestions as to what I can do to even it up? It was supposedly NOS before it was honed and sent to me.

 

[Slash McCoy]

So I marked my blade and did 10 full strokes on the 30u film. The wear is uneven despite over 100 laps on a previous effort.
View attachment 1096104

View attachment 1096105
View attachment 1096106View attachment 1096107

Any suggestions as to what I can do to even it up? It was supposedly NOS before it was honed and sent to me.

I don't see the problem. Except you need more honing. The back side of the razor looks like it needs a little more love on it. I assume you are still trying to get a bevel set?

If you really want to get it done in the next attempt, completely done, complete bevel, use the burr method. Start on the back side. Hone only the back side, 50 medium pressure laps. Use about the weight of your forearm. Feel on the show side for the burr. If you have a burr along the entire edge, then good. If not, another 50 strokes. Hone IN HAND. To feel for the burr, lightly stroke your fingertip from the spine to the edge and then all the way off the edge. Think driving a car off a cliff. You will feel a tiny catch when the burr has started forming. If you feel the other side you will feel the difference and it will be more obvious. Go until you have your burr, end to end. Count your laps. Flip the razor and hone the show side. The burr should transfer onto the back side. Since you have more wear on the show side, try half the number of laps you used on the back side. If you have a good burr, then good. If not, keep going until you do.

Once you have raised a burr on both sides in turn, hone it off. You can use a few diminishing sets of one sided laps or just go right into regular alternating laps. Start with the same medium pressure but then gradually lighten up on the pressure and finish this stage with very light pressure, just the weight of the razor. Finally, do about 30 very short x stroke laps. The stroke should be about 3" or less. Don't slap the razor down onto the film. Always touch down with the spine first. Take your time. Don't hurry.

Examine your edge carefully under a very bright light with a loupe or a strong magnifying glass. If the edge looks perfect, go to the next finer film. If not, and imperfections are very small, just keep honing, with alternating laps, light pressure, like the weight of the razor plus a finger's weight.

Keep an eye on your contact area. Use your sharpie occasionally to look for areas not hitting the hone. You may need to roll the plate side to side if you find too much of the edge at the ends is not getting any action. Dont worry too much about the very tip of the toe or heel. Obsessing over the points has ruined a lot of razors. You don't shave with the points anyway. If you do, and they are sharp, you will fillet yourself.

The Burr Method brings on howls of outrage in certain circles. Don't worry about it. It definitely gets the job done. It not only sets the bevel, but proves the bevel, too. And you only need to do this once. Or you can fiddle around with it forever and probably grind off just as much or more steel just going at it randomly, hoping it will some day get done.

There is a thread on Setting the Bevel With the Burr Method somewhere. A search on this site will find it. I suggest reading it straight through. And be sure you never let the shoulder of the razor ride up on the hone. Hone in hand. Use an X stroke. Roll the hone if you need to, but SLIGHTLY so you don't just wear heel and toe into an upswept curve far removed from the design of the razor. Use your sharpie to see if you are hitting the whole edge with the hone. Take no prisoners. Get it done next try, and move on. You can do this.


Perfectly even wear is only possible on a perfectly ground razor. Don't worry about it. As long as you have a good bevel that meets in a good apex you are doing just fine.

 

[jtface]

I don't see the problem. Except you need more honing. The back side of the razor looks like it needs a little more love on it. I assume you are still trying to get a bevel set?

If you really want to get it done in the next attempt, completely done, complete bevel, use the burr method. Start on the back side. Hone only the back side, 50 medium pressure laps. Use about the weight of your forearm. Feel on the show side for the burr. If you have a burr along the entire edge, then good. If not, another 50 strokes. Hone IN HAND. To feel for the burr, lightly stroke your fingertip from the spine to the edge and then all the way off the edge. Think driving a car off a cliff. You will feel a tiny catch when the burr has started forming. If you feel the other side you will feel the difference and it will be more obvious. Go until you have your burr, end to end. Count your laps. Flip the razor and hone the show side. The burr should transfer onto the back side. Since you have more wear on the show side, try half the number of laps you used on the back side. If you have a good burr, then good. If not, keep going until you do.

Once you have raised a burr on both sides in turn, hone it off. You can use a few diminishing sets of one sided laps or just go right into regular alternating laps. Start with the same medium pressure but then gradually lighten up on the pressure and finish this stage with very light pressure, just the weight of the razor. Finally, do about 30 very short x stroke laps. The stroke should be about 3" or less. Don't slap the razor down onto the film. Always touch down with the spine first. Take your time. Don't hurry.

Examine your edge carefully under a very bright light with a loupe or a strong magnifying glass. If the edge looks perfect, go to the next finer film. If not, and imperfections are very small, just keep honing, with alternating laps, light pressure, like the weight of the razor plus a finger's weight.

Keep an eye on your contact area. Use your sharpie occasionally to look for areas not hitting the hone. You may need to roll the plate side to side if you find too much of the edge at the ends is not getting any action. Dont worry too much about the very tip of the toe or heel. Obsessing over the points has ruined a lot of razors. You don't shave with the points anyway. If you do, and they are sharp, you will fillet yourself.

The Burr Method brings on howls of outrage in certain circles. Don't worry about it. It definitely gets the job done. It not only sets the bevel, but proves the bevel, too. And you only need to do this once. Or you can fiddle around with it forever and probably grind off just as much or more steel just going at it randomly, hoping it will some day get done.

There is a thread on Setting the Bevel With the Burr Method somewhere. A search on this site will find it. I suggest reading it straight through. And be sure you never let the shoulder of the razor ride up on the hone. Hone in hand. Use an X stroke. Roll the hone if you need to, but SLIGHTLY so you don't just wear heel and toe into an upswept curve far removed from the design of the razor. Use your sharpie to see if you are hitting the whole edge with the hone. Take no prisoners. Get it done next try, and move on. You can do this.


Perfectly even wear is only possible on a perfectly ground razor. Don't worry about it. As long as you have a good bevel that meets in a good apex you are doing just fine.

More honing because the edge looks so thin?
My concern was the uneven spine wear, but you are saying this is due to the initial grind? Puts my mind at ease then.
I'll keep pushing on with the bevel set until I get nice a nice even edge. Thank you for your input!

 

[Slash McCoy]

More honing because the edge looks so thin?
My concern was the uneven spine wear, but you are saying this is due to the initial grind? Puts my mind at ease then.
I'll keep pushing on with the bevel set until I get nice a nice even edge. Thank you for your input!

What I mean is that it looks like on the back side you don't have a bevel along the entire edge. There are areas with no contact. Unless I am just seeing the picture wrong. Do you think you have a bevel completely set? What makes you think so? How did you verify your bevel?

Uneven spine wear can be from honing but if the grind is not spot on the money, you will get uneven spine wear with the best honing. But remember, you don't shave with the spine. The spine is only a honing tool. It is a guide. The edge is what it's all about. I could cut completely through the spine and it wouldn't affect the honing or the shaving. Uneven bevel width at the edge is also irrelevant. What matters is that there is a bevel and it envelopes good steel and terminates in a good apex. From there it is simply a matter of refining and polishing the bevel.

 

[jtface]

Over here in the UK, our suppliers seem to stick only the PSA backed stuff.This is what I bought, but I have been able to remove it really quickly and easily using this:

1. On a flat surface, lay the film adhesive side up.
2. Squirt some of the cleaner on, spread it all over with fingers and then let it sit for 20 seconds.
3. Scrape adhesive off with junk plastic card (old credit card/points card etc.)
4. Rinse whole thing in clean hot water.

The cleaner costs £5 for an enormous bottle (you use a small amount) and the whole process takes less than 3 minutes. Certainly beats waiting for products to be shipped from China!

Hope someone finds this helpful!

 

[jtface]

I received my handheld LED microscope today (60x/120x zoom). I'm not sure about the accuracy of the zoom, but I was able to get a good close look at my edge as I honed.

I set the bevel on 30u using the burr method. I checked my edge under the microscope and honed 20 more strokes. Then checked again. I repeated this until I saw no improvement and then moved on...

... I did 60 on the 12u and checked with the microscope. I did sets of 20 (checking in between) until I saw no obvious improvement and then moved on.

I repeated this until I saw no further improvement on the 1u film.

20 laps on crOx on poly... This smoothed the edge (visually) further. I then did 60 laps on leather. Again a slight smoothing (visually).

I look forward to shaving tomorrow!

 

[Sukeroku]

Elementary question: when/how often do you need to reset the bevel?

 

[rbscebu]

Elementary question: when/how often do you need to reset the bevel?

Never, unless the edge get badly physically damaged.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I received my handheld LED microscope today (60x/120x zoom). I'm not sure about the accuracy of the zoom, but I was able to get a good close look at my edge as I honed.

I set the bevel on 30u using the burr method. I checked my edge under the microscope and honed 20 more strokes. Then checked again. I repeated this until I saw no improvement and then moved on...

... I did 60 on the 12u and checked with the microscope. I did sets of 20 (checking in between) until I saw no obvious improvement and then moved on.

I repeated this until I saw no further improvement on the 1u film.

20 laps on crOx on poly... This smoothed the edge (visually) further. I then did 60 laps on leather. Again a slight smoothing (visually).

I look forward to shaving tomorrow!

Nothing between the 12u and the 1u? I would definitely add some 3u to that progression, and maybe some 9u. A 12x jump is pretty big. 3x seems to work nicely. 4x is a bit of a stretch but not too terribly bad.

Rather than CrOx you might consider a couple of enhancements to the 1u film finish.

Pull strokes. At the end of the 1u stage, do about a half dozen pull strokes per side, then 10 or 12 laps with the very lightest pressure. Honing in hand is nearly essential for this, more so if you are a beginner. You need for the hone to be able to yield to the pressure so you can regulate it better and control the balance better. A pull stroke is simply pulling the razor directly to the right, across the film, about 3/4" or so. This strips artifacts from the edge. It also can slightly round the apex so the final dozen very light regular laps are added to peak it back up.

Short laps. Using a full X stroke, take very short laps, about 3" or so. Hone in hand, of course. Light pressure, only the weight of the razor. Keep going until you feel lots of stiction. Do not slap the edge on the film. Gently, carefully. The longer it takes to get stiction, the less well developed your edge was. So it is also a good diagnostic indicator. I have used over 100 laps to get there on many occasions. About 50 should never be a surprise. I don't know exactly why and I can only speculate on that, but those very short x strokes increase sharpness and overall edge quality considerably over full length laps. Full length laps help to remove a lot of steel quickly but in a controlled manner. However, they can also easily give you a bit of fin or wire edge, especially if your pressure control is not well developed.

The lather trick. Hone to a good finish and rinse the film or stone thoroughly, then add lather and hone some more, beginning with the weight of your hand and gradually diminishing pressure to just the weight of the razor, even less if you can manage it. This takes a lot of laps to get it right. About halfway through the process it should start to feel like you are not even making contact with the film or stone. The lather acts as a buffer, lifting the razor probably a half micron or so depending on pressure and lather texture, reducing scratch depth. Feedback is of course not very helpful here, but when you nail it, wow... amazing.

Pico-paper. Nothing but ordinary copy paper, dampened, applied between film and plate, after reaching a plateau. Remove film, apply picopaper, apply film on top of that, and give it a half dozen very light laps. This smooths the edge considerably without giving up hardly any sharpness.

Many of these techniques can be combined. The short x strokes work very well with the lather trick, for instance.

Even better of course is the three stage lapped and pasted balsa progression. But the above techniques will up your game as much as going to a higher grit, with no additional equipment.

Looking forward to your shave report. If you find it less than what you were hoping for, try some of the above tricks.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Never, unless the edge get badly physically damaged.

What he said. You shouldn't have to do anything more drastic than hitting your finisher, for many, many years. Usually on a new-to-me razor I will set the bevel, just because. Probably half the time there is no actual need to do so, but it is just as easy to do it as to figure out if I should or not. From there on, I would never dream of resetting the bevel unless the razor was developing a heel hook or a shoulder ramp or something, or I dinged or chipped the edge.

 

[Sukeroku]

What he said. You shouldn't have to do anything more drastic than hitting your finisher, for many, many years. Usually on a new-to-me razor I will set the bevel, just because. Probably half the time there is no actual need to do so, but it is just as easy to do it as to figure out if I should or not. From there on, I would never dream of resetting the bevel unless the razor was developing a heel hook or a shoulder ramp or something, or I dinged or chipped the edge.

Thank you, Slash. While we are on the subject...How far up on the lapping film/balsa stropping scale should I go for a razor that occasionally tree-tops with a ping but not consistently? I have put my straight razors on a bit of a sabbatical while fooling around with some vintage Gillettes and am looking to get back in the game.

 

[jtface]

Nothing between the 12u and the 1u? I would definitely add some 3u to that progression, and maybe some 9u. A 12x jump is pretty big. 3x seems to work nicely. 4x is a bit of a stretch but not too terribly bad.

Rather than CrOx you might consider a couple of enhancements to the 1u film finish.

Pull strokes. At the end of the 1u stage, do about a half dozen pull strokes per side, then 10 or 12 laps with the very lightest pressure. Honing in hand is nearly essential for this, more so if you are a beginner. You need for the hone to be able to yield to the pressure so you can regulate it better and control the balance better. A pull stroke is simply pulling the razor directly to the right, across the film, about 3/4" or so. This strips artifacts from the edge. It also can slightly round the apex so the final dozen very light regular laps are added to peak it back up.

Short laps. Using a full X stroke, take very short laps, about 3" or so. Hone in hand, of course. Light pressure, only the weight of the razor. Keep going until you feel lots of stiction. Do not slap the edge on the film. Gently, carefully. The longer it takes to get stiction, the less well developed your edge was. So it is also a good diagnostic indicator. I have used over 100 laps to get there on many occasions. About 50 should never be a surprise. I don't know exactly why and I can only speculate on that, but those very short x strokes increase sharpness and overall edge quality considerably over full length laps. Full length laps help to remove a lot of steel quickly but in a controlled manner. However, they can also easily give you a bit of fin or wire edge, especially if your pressure control is not well developed.

The lather trick. Hone to a good finish and rinse the film or stone thoroughly, then add lather and hone some more, beginning with the weight of your hand and gradually diminishing pressure to just the weight of the razor, even less if you can manage it. This takes a lot of laps to get it right. About halfway through the process it should start to feel like you are not even making contact with the film or stone. The lather acts as a buffer, lifting the razor probably a half micron or so depending on pressure and lather texture, reducing scratch depth. Feedback is of course not very helpful here, but when you nail it, wow... amazing.

Pico-paper. Nothing but ordinary copy paper, dampened, applied between film and plate, after reaching a plateau. Remove film, apply picopaper, apply film on top of that, and give it a half dozen very light laps. This smooths the edge considerably without giving up hardly any sharpness.

Many of these techniques can be combined. The short x strokes work very well with the lather trick, for instance.

Even better of course is the three stage lapped and pasted balsa progression. But the above techniques will up your game as much as going to a higher grit, with no additional equipment.

Looking forward to your shave report. If you find it less than what you were hoping for, try some of the above tricks.

Yes there was 9u and 3u. I finished on 1u.

I'll be sure to try some of those techniques. I also stropped on a flat surface!

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thank you, Slash. While we are on the subject...How far up on the lapping film/balsa stropping scale should I go for a razor that occasionally tree-tops with a ping but not consistently? I have put my straight razors on a bit of a sabbatical while fooling around with some vintage Gillettes and am looking to get back in the game.

Try 1u film. Or 12k Naniwa. If that don't work, drop down to 3u film and 8k Naniwa, then your 1u or 12k, then your pasted balsa progression and you should have it phaser sharp again. If it treetops at all, you don't want to drop down any lower than you have to. You just waste time and steel and honing media.

 

[jtface]

Nothing between the 12u and the 1u? I would definitely add some 3u to that progression, and maybe some 9u. A 12x jump is pretty big. 3x seems to work nicely. 4x is a bit of a stretch but not too terribly bad.

Rather than CrOx you might consider a couple of enhancements to the 1u film finish.

Pull strokes. At the end of the 1u stage, do about a half dozen pull strokes per side, then 10 or 12 laps with the very lightest pressure. Honing in hand is nearly essential for this, more so if you are a beginner. You need for the hone to be able to yield to the pressure so you can regulate it better and control the balance better. A pull stroke is simply pulling the razor directly to the right, across the film, about 3/4" or so. This strips artifacts from the edge. It also can slightly round the apex so the final dozen very light regular laps are added to peak it back up.

Short laps. Using a full X stroke, take very short laps, about 3" or so. Hone in hand, of course. Light pressure, only the weight of the razor. Keep going until you feel lots of stiction. Do not slap the edge on the film. Gently, carefully. The longer it takes to get stiction, the less well developed your edge was. So it is also a good diagnostic indicator. I have used over 100 laps to get there on many occasions. About 50 should never be a surprise. I don't know exactly why and I can only speculate on that, but those very short x strokes increase sharpness and overall edge quality considerably over full length laps. Full length laps help to remove a lot of steel quickly but in a controlled manner. However, they can also easily give you a bit of fin or wire edge, especially if your pressure control is not well developed.

The lather trick. Hone to a good finish and rinse the film or stone thoroughly, then add lather and hone some more, beginning with the weight of your hand and gradually diminishing pressure to just the weight of the razor, even less if you can manage it. This takes a lot of laps to get it right. About halfway through the process it should start to feel like you are not even making contact with the film or stone. The lather acts as a buffer, lifting the razor probably a half micron or so depending on pressure and lather texture, reducing scratch depth. Feedback is of course not very helpful here, but when you nail it, wow... amazing.

Pico-paper. Nothing but ordinary copy paper, dampened, applied between film and plate, after reaching a plateau. Remove film, apply picopaper, apply film on top of that, and give it a half dozen very light laps. This smooths the edge considerably without giving up hardly any sharpness.

Many of these techniques can be combined. The short x strokes work very well with the lather trick, for instance.

Even better of course is the three stage lapped and pasted balsa progression. But the above techniques will up your game as much as going to a higher grit, with no additional equipment.

Looking forward to your shave report. If you find it less than what you were hoping for, try some of the above tricks.

The razor was sharp! Two passes got me a DFS in all areas bar my chin and a small patch on my jawline. I got 3 small nicks, but not a bad effort for my 5th shave.

I know that I might like the blade a touch sharper (I like the sound of Uber sharp), so I will have a go at some of the suggestions above and will doubtless end up with diamond pasted balsa!

I'm going to do the short X strokes without lather. Then follow them with some short X strokes with lather. Then a few laps on picopaper!

 

[Slash McCoy]

The razor was sharp! Two passes got me a DFS in all areas bar my chin and a small patch on my jawline. I got 3 small nicks, but not a bad effort for my 5th shave.

I know that I might like the blade a touch sharper (I like the sound of Uber sharp), so I will have a go at some of the suggestions above and will doubtless end up with diamond pasted balsa!

I'm going to do the short X strokes without lather. Then follow them with some short X strokes with lather. Then a few laps on picopaper!

Well done! Remember, don't overdo it on the picopaper. What it is basically doing is slightly rounding the bevel right at the edge. A little will tame the edge. Too much will well, make it TOO tame. IOW, dull.

 

[jtface]

Well done! Remember, don't overdo it on the picopaper. What it is basically doing is slightly rounding the bevel right at the edge. A little will tame the edge. Too much will well, make it TOO tame. IOW, dull.

Thank you! I'll make sure to just give it half a dozen light laps!

 

[camoloc]

I now have a 12k Chinese stone......a blk Arkansas in case something is really bad......and the 14 k light green 3M.

I've been experimenting running the film on a piece of tile of all things and have not seen any issues yet.

as much as it pains me to say it.....the 3M film is awesome and brings back scary edges with not much work. it may not stand out immediately......but after I run on the cotton about 20 and do 50 on the leather......I smile.

camo

 

[steveclarkus]

I now have a 12k Chinese stone......a blk Arkansas in case something is really bad......and the 14 k light green 3M.

I've been experimenting running the film on a piece of tile of all things and have not seen any issues yet.

as much as it pains me to say it.....the 3M film is awesome and brings back scary edges with not much work. it may not stand out immediately......but after I run on the cotton about 20 and do 50 on the leather......I smile.

camo

You have had the awakening. Congratulations!

 

[rbscebu]

I now have a 12k Chinese stone......a blk Arkansas in case something is really bad......and the 14 k light green 3M.

I've been experimenting running the film on a piece of tile of all things and have not seen any issues yet.

as much as it pains me to say it.....the 3M film is awesome and brings back scary edges with not much work. it may not stand out immediately......but after I run on the cotton about 20 and do 50 on the leather......I smile.

camo

Yes, the 14k (1.0um) film produces a nice shaveable edge. Once you have mastered shaving with that, consider diamond pasted balsa stropping; 0.5um (50k) to 0.25um (100k) to 0.1um (200k). This will refine your edge the the molecular level. Then just finish each shave with 50 laps on a 0.1um pasted hanging balsa strop and you will never have to hone that edge again.