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Lapping an Arkansas Black

I have an Arkansas Black that I purchased new from Dan's. I've run an SR over it many time using mostly honing oil (from Dan's) and once or twice with water or water with soap in it.

The stone is 6x3x1 inches. BTW, I also have an "Arkansas Hard (fine)" of the same size.

Question #1: Do I need to lap my Arkansas Black?

If the answer is Yes, then this is what I have on hand to lap a stone:
  • DMT Diamond plate (8x3). Coarse grit (D8C)
  • Buck Brothers 120101BC 1/4x5 inch wood chisel (LongHaulTanker on YouTube uses this to lap his Arkansas stones)
  • A large kitchen knife that needs sharpening

dapper shaves says that using a D8C on an Arkansas Black will ruin the D8C, so I’m reluctant to use it in this case.

Question #2: So how do I lap the Arkansas Black?
 
I refresh mine with 220# black sandpaper and work up to 600# on a flat surface. I get sandpaper at the auto parts store because they always have the silicone carbide paper.
 
Lapping and burnishing are different.

Lapping is to make the stone flat. Dan's stones are generally flat when shipped, but it doesn't hurt to check, and/or re-do it from time to time.

Burnishing is about preparing the now flat surface for razor finishing, and is generally done by honing carbon knives or chisels or some other tool that will equalize the texture of the now flat surface.
 
Lapping an Arkie is best done with SIC powder. It's like diamond powder and you can buy it online at a decent price. At least this is what I was told. Of the 3 options you posted, only one is lapping. And that would be with the DMT. But as you read, lapping an Arkie on a DMT will ruin the DMT. It's too hard. The other two things you mentioned are what is used to burnish. Run hard steel across it many times. A different thing.

But most Arkies from Dans are flat. And so hard they really don't need lapped unless you're just wanting to change the texture of the stone. Then Wet/Dry paper will do. But to lap with wet/dry paper, it's going to take a lot of paper. It can be done. But SIC powder is best. I have never used it. It's just what Marty Recommends. And he is the guru on this stuff. IMO.
 
If your Arkansas stone was used only to sharpen razors, then the chances are that it does not need lapping. Arkies are super hard, much harder than steel, so it takes a lot to wear them down.

If you have been using your Ark to sharpen chisels routinely, then there might be non-uniform wear.

Unless your Ark is well out of level and needs lots of material removed, I would not recommend using a coarse diamond stone. I think silicon carbide powder on a glass or granite backer is one possible way of lapping it if it truly needs help. The advantage of silicon carbide is that it is a friable abrasive. Unlike diamond crystals, SiC breaks down to even finer particles so you don't leave gouges in the novaculite.

The chisel is not used to lap the Ark, but is necessary to burnish the surface of the stone such that it will be suitable for razors.
 
The answer to question 1 depends on how flat it is. Check it with a straightedge and a bright light across 6 axes. It doesnt have to be perfect but it should be pretty good (knowing what pretty good is comes with experience unfortunately). If it needs to be flattened you will need silicone carbide powder. There have been several threads recently describing the process. I wouldn't use your DMT for this.

Dressing the surface is easy if it's flat, w/d on a known flat surface will do it. You'll get varying opinions on what grit to finish with. Between 600 and 1000 works for me. You'll also get varying opinions on burnishing. Some guys like to work a chisel or knife on it until it's glassy. I prefer a matte finish and only use a knife to make sure the surface is smooth and clean, and I re-dress it fairly regularly. Really that's something you'll have to decide for yourself by trying it.
 
Dan’s stones usually come with about a 120 grit finish. Personally I like a burnished finish on my black and hard and I recommend that for one side of your stones. The good thing about Arks is they usually have two usable sides. Finish the other side to another level of refinement to get a different effect.

GritOmatic used to sell a nice progression of SiC grit but I’m not seeing it now. 60, 120, 220, 440, and 800 are staples which I frequently use.

Dan’s stones are usually very close to flat but it is good to be sure by lapping them on SiC. Also it is good to chamfer the edges and I personally like polishing the sides because it makes the stone feel nice in the hand. You do have to condition the surface in order to have the stone function at the upper limits of its capabilities.
 
SiC grit is readily available and seriously cheap. Easy to find on Amazon, and when I next need some, I plan to try that "Got Grit?" site.

It has also helped me train my wife to pick up the mail when she drives past the mailbox, not "later, when I take the dogs for a walk." And all it took was one order of 10 lbs of assorted SiC grits.
 
Dan’s stones usually come with about a 120 grit finish. Personally I like a burnished finish on my black and hard and I recommend that for one side of your stones. The good thing about Arks is they usually have two usable sides. Finish the other side to another level of refinement to get a different effect.

GritOmatic used to sell a nice progression of SiC grit but I’m not seeing it now. 60, 120, 220, 440, and 800 are staples which I frequently use.

Dan’s stones are usually very close to flat but it is good to be sure by lapping them on SiC. Also it is good to chamfer the edges and I personally like polishing the sides because it makes the stone feel nice in the hand. You do have to condition the surface in order to have the stone function at the upper limits of its capabilities.
Kim told me they finish their stones at #400. If I had to guess I'd say that about right. I have a few finishing stones from Dan's and none aside from the primitive cut I bought needed to be lapped/ flattened at all. I did one side of my 8" black to #1k and burnished it, immediately regretted it, then re-lapped it down to #220. I do most of my honing on those stones on the #220 side. The grain of the stones is just as fine but they actually cut at that grit. If I start there with 5 mind of circles on water and gradually lighten strokes with rolling x-strokes for about 30 strokes on lather and the razor is done. That approach will improve an edge finished on my very hard Nakayama Kiita. If I really want to be ridiculous and hone it far beyond what I'll ever need on a razor or pocket knife, I'll flip it to the #400 on mineral oil for about 50-75 laps.
 

duke762

Rose to the occasion
Question #1: Do I need to lap my Arkansas Black?

If the answer is Yes, then this is what I have on hand to lap a stone:
  • DMT Diamond plate (8x3). Coarse grit (D8C)
  • Buck Brothers 120101BC 1/4x5 inch wood chisel (LongHaulTanker on YouTube uses this to lap his Arkansas stones)
  • A large kitchen knife that needs sharpening

Let's forget you have these things for now. Let's talk terminology a little bit. Lapping, dressing, "burnishing". I spit every time I see the word "burnish" in the honing section. Hate that word being mentioned here. Maybe it's because I've done so much of it before seeing the light. The wasted time and effort is staggering. Yeah, it used to be a thing. Cooler heads prevailed.

Lapping on loose grit is the first step in proper surface prep. This will give you an initial flatness that needs to be refined. Next we move to dressing. 600 grit W/D will give you the final flatness and dress the surface of the stone to a condition optimal for honing razors. Again, this will give an optimal surface for razor honing. If 600grit doesn't agree with you, redress to a slightly higher grit but never try to get there by "burnishing". YMMV

Notice I didn't mention "burnishing". Burnishing doesn't belong in any discussion of abrasive processes of any type and for any use, most importantly for razor honing.

Consider all the other hones that get get "burnished" before use as a best practice. Short list eh? If you need 800grit sandpaper do you "burnish" 400grit to get it? Have you ever used a pedestal grinding wheel that was loaded and clogged with steel? That is an extreme example of "burnishing".

If my razor Arks get used with a knife or tool I redress them to 600grit before they will ever see a razor again.

I wonder if this "burnishing" thing all got started by folks getting freaked out by the crispy feel of a fresh stone and concluded it needed "burnishing" to smooth it out a bit. With a razor this takes about 50 laps for me, the stone settles down and with careful usage, will be effective for a long time. If I notice any areas on my stone getting even a little "burnished" I redress with the 600 grit W/D ASAP.

A properly dressed Trans or Black, when presented with a properly prepared edge, is not too slow at all. I would estimate my lap count as less than 200. A small cost for perfection.
 
Kim told me they finish their stones at #400. If I had to guess I'd say that about right. I have a few finishing stones from Dan's and none aside from the primitive cut I bought needed to be lapped/ flattened at all. I did one side of my 8" black to #1k and burnished it, immediately regretted it, then re-lapped it down to #220. I do most of my honing on those stones on the #220 side. The grain of the stones is just as fine but they actually cut at that grit. If I start there with 5 mind of circles on water and gradually lighten strokes with rolling x-strokes for about 30 strokes on lather and the razor is done. That approach will improve an edge finished on my very hard Nakayama Kiita. If I really want to be ridiculous and hone it far beyond what I'll ever need on a razor or pocket knife, I'll flip it to the #400 on mineral oil for about 50-75 laps.

One of the great aspects of high quality Arks is that you can dial in the surface to whatever you like best. Also with two usable surfaces you can have two of your favorite finishes. I personally prefer a burnished surface but that is just me.
 

duke762

Rose to the occasion
I love how easy it is to dial in a final finish to suit your tastes and can be easily changed if your tastes change. Mr. Kooby, what edge do you take to your Ark and what's your lap count like if you don't mind me asking? I realize some folks prefer their stones that way. I'm curious to see if your surface finish affects anything.
 
I love how easy it is to dial in a final finish to suit your tastes and can be easily changed if your tastes change. Mr. Kooby, what edge do you take to your Ark and what's your lap count like if you don't mind me asking? I realize some folks prefer their stones that way. I'm curious to see if your surface finish affects anything.

I have some good pre-finishers to use prior to to the Ark. Lately I have been using a Naniwa Fuji 8K followed by a Spyderco UF before going to an Ark or JNAT. Sometimes I will use a Suehiro 20K in place of the Spyderco. I do not spend much time on the Ark, probably 10-25 laps, because the edge coming off the pre-finishers is close to done.

I do recognize that I could replace some of those pre-finishers if I was to condition one side of the Ark to 220-400 grit. I’ve got a bit of a rock buying habit.
 
I've recently been testing the way @duke762 has brought up before reading it here. I'm finding the 600 to be a bit harsh for me so I'm now working on the 800-grit finish next. I wouldn't have thought that it would make much difference. My Ark was finished at 2k and burnished to a high polish. No wonder I couldn't get much from it. At the lower grits I'm now finding the Ark Edge I might like.

Still testing.

If your Ark is pretty flat then I wouldn't worry about flattening it. Just dress the surface and test it out to see if it makes a good edge for your face.
 
I wonder if this "burnishing" thing all got started by folks getting freaked out by the crispy feel of a fresh stone and concluded it needed "burnishing" to smooth it out a bit. With a razor this takes about 50 laps for me, the stone settles down and with careful usage, will be effective for a long time. If I notice any areas on my stone getting even a little "burnished" I redress with the 600 grit W/D ASAP.
This has been my approach lately and I've really been digging it. However, I do still run a beater razor over the stone for 20 or 30 laps after I dress it, occasionally I find some loose particles that didn't rinse off. Not sure if they're from the stone or maybe grit that got pulled off the sandpaper. Either way not something I want to discover with a razor I'm finishing.
I'm finding the 600 to be a bit harsh for me so I'm now working on the 800-grit finish next.
What are you honing on? Thinner or thicker oils, or water with a dab of dish soap seem to get different results early on. What I mean is, soap/water or thick oil will get an edge smooth pretty quick but you may need to spend more time to get ultimate keenness. Thin oil seems to get to sharp quick but takes more time to get to smooth. At least, that's my impression right now. Talk to me in a year and see what I think.
 
Yea, an Ark will trash, (rip out the diamonds) in a diamond plate and not affect the stone much. So, don’t waste a plate on it.

Arks. (Novaculite) are different from other stones in that the stone face finish dictates the finish they produce. The trick is to get the stone face flat and SMOOTH. Once flat you can alter the face and cutting/polishing ability easily and quickly with 600-2k Wet and Dry.

The only way to remove a low spot it to remove all the surrounding material to the depth of the low spot, and that is lapping flat. Flat will insure there are no low spots that, as the stone wears, contact the bevel and edge and ruin all your hard honing work.

I hear Dan’s stone are flat but, have never lapped or used one. To test for flat, mark the stone face with a sharpie grid, yes, you can see black sharpie on a black stone, or use another color, I like red. Buy a steel cookie sheet from the dollar store and some Wet and Dry 600,800, 1k and 2k. Wet a sheet of 600 and stick it to the cookie sheet.

If the stone is flat, ALL the sharpie should come off in 10 laps. You will see any low spots. A stone does not need to be “dead flat” to hone a razor, but it must be smooth without any pockets that have not been smoothed to a uniform finish.

If you need to flatten use 60 grit Silicone Carbide, GotGrit.com will sell you an assortment of 60-500 grits, for about $15. You do not need much, ¼ pound of each will be about $15 and lap several stones. If you plan to lap more buy more 60 girt.

Stay on 60 grit until you are flat, then you can run up the grits to 500 quickly, removing each prior grits scratches.

Finish on 600-2k Wet and Dry on the cookie sheet on a flat piece of cement floor. Use your body weight and start with a plastic teaspoon and bit of water to make a paste. Add a ½ teaspoon as needed, you will feel when it stops cutting.

Get to flat, once you have removed all the sharpie, wash, dry and remark the stone and see if all the sharpie is removed in less than 10 laps. The real test is completely removing a sharpie grid mark with 600 paper in less than 10 laps. Fooling yourself with “this is good enough” will dictate your results. The good news it you only need to flatten once for razor honing.

The reason that many of us have very different results and opinions on these stones is because, no two of us are honing the exact same razor, that has been finished to the same level, prior to going to the Ark. The stones have not had their faces prepared to the same level of finish, and the stones are Natural stones with unique composition. Naturally we have very different results.

Burnishing can also alter, calm a stone face, as can how you burnish, what you use and how much pressure you use. Burnishing microscopically knocks of the tops of the grit and fills the micro voids. It will slow the cutting but produce a higher polish.

The bottom line is you should try finishing at each level from 600 to 2k to find the edge that works best with the level of polish your razor has when presented to the Ark finisher.

I burnish with a large Carbon Steel cleaver, but a large carbon steel Kitchen Knife will work. If you don’t like the finish, you can easily go back to a 600 W&D finish and work up from there.

I do a 600 finish no burnish and 1k burnished finish on the other side, for a dual grit stone. Write on the side of the stone with a sharpie or paint pen which side is which.

If you lap on Glass, Marble or Granite, they will quickly go out of flat. Glass and Marble are very soft. A steel cookie sheet on a marble tile or piece of granite countertop on cement floor will give you a durable, flat surface and contain the slurry and mess.

So, if you get the idea there are a lot of variables, yea there are. Start with a sharpie grid and lap on 600, 10 laps, that will tell you where you are and which direction you need to go.

A good Ark edge is rivaled only by a good Jnat edge.
 
Ensuring prep
Ark clean, i use ivory hand soap
Hands clean
Good edge to ark
The right water to your medium consistency
Never lapped my ark to date
Blk surgical 8x3-1
 
I use ballistol and water for my oil on the stone Closer to 30 or 40% water. Not 50/50.
Tonights shave was 800 grit finish on a trans ark. 200 light laps.
Im happy with the edge but will try and do a few burnish laps on the 800 next to see if it gives me more confort. After that comes the 1k finish on the stone. Just working my way up until i find what is best for me.
 
Interesting you mention Longhaultanker - interesting dude, he interviewed Dan a while back.

So, Arks are not lapped with a chisel. The practice of running steel on an Ark is done, by some, to 'break in' the working surface. It is claimed that doing this takes down the high 'points' of rogue particles; it's not flattening in a full surface sense.
Lapping is flattening edge to edge, corner to corner. Checking for flatness means putting a straightedge lengthwise, center and by both edges. Width-wise, center and by both edges. And then diagonally.

SIC works well when used on an actual flat surface. Lapping an Ark on a concave surface with make an Ark with a convex face.
I use the back of a 10x4 DMT that died long ago - yep, it was used to lap Arks and its pretty much toast now.

The DMT D8C will probably wear a lot if used to lap an Ark.
The Dia-Flat DMT plates are said to be ok for Arks, but I haven't tested that claim.

I use SIC from 60x through 600, then a finish polish with 600x w/d paper. I keep my finishing Arks around that level of 'matte' polish.
Some use SIC on top of granite reference plates, but the working surface has to be protected with a sacrificial layer of W/D paper or else the SIC eats into the granite.
Some use SIC on tiles, but tiles are not usually flat enough for my needs.

Whether or not anyone needs to do this depends on preferences.
I only use flat stones, it eliminates variables and surprises. I have found that my stones perform best when flat.
I have found that honing razors on a not-flat Ark is counterproductive. So I lap all stones flat, and i check with a quality straightedge.
 

duke762

Rose to the occasion
cement floor will give you a durable, flat surface and contain the slurry and mess.

I recently lapped a 5 x 2 Trans that was dished about .060" or 1.5mm. Using silica sand (white sand) and concrete this only took about 20 minutes. It all sounds aggressive as heck but, as the silica breaks down it's kind of self smoothing. It took minimal effort to get it straight edge flat and dressed to 600 grit W/D. You can even lap glue, or box damage, out, this way if you have the patience or big arms. It does go surprisingly fast. Do figure 8's, mix it up, don't grind away on one spot. and stay away from the the back and forth movement, well, maybe at the very end. If you feel the silica sand rolling under stone, this means it's working properly. The rolling grit, under the stone is doing the work. It creates tiny pits in the stone, eroding it and flattening it. As the silica sand breaks down, it make smaller pits to to point that the silica particles are not rolling, but stalled and smoothing the stone even further.
 
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