Bravo, great reply!
Lambda Athena
- Thread starter Mr. Shavington
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- #302
Hard to say without emulating your style. For me the Overlander and Athena shave equally - both mild feeling, safe from irritation, and efficient at the same time. There seem to be some who don’t find the Overlander as efficient as I have, and maybe that suggests the Athena is more forgiving and easier to get a great shave with, for more people. But the Athena is newer and far fewer people have one, so it’s hard to really know yet how it will suit a wide range of shavers.So just to clarify…. let’s say I’m a shaky caffeinated less intelligent daily shaver who blasts AC/DC while sipping whiskey and shaving quickly. Do I want the Overlander or is the Athena Lambda better for me? Statistically?
Aside from the shave, the Athena has a much more high-end finish and presentation with the fitted mahogany box, and the new bronze Overlander is priced only slightly less - taking the same metal to compare - so the Athena would be better value in my mind. The Athena feels a lot more special.
They’re both exceptionally good razors and top of the tree, in my opinion, even compared against much more expensive offerings.
I don’t usually feel this way about a razor after 1 shave, but I’m extremely confident the Athena has a permanent place in my den—love the razor feedback without the traditional “blade feel” for a mild but efficient razor.
The cost of a razor is almost irrelevant to me because a razor like the Athena if cared for properly, should outlast my lifetime. The joy of using the razor 2-3 times a week over the next 50+ years, makes the $200+ razor cost pennies a day over its usefulness period.
The cost of a razor is almost irrelevant to me because a razor like the Athena if cared for properly, should outlast my lifetime. The joy of using the razor 2-3 times a week over the next 50+ years, makes the $200+ razor cost pennies a day over its usefulness period.
Your reasoning made me think a bit. Imagine getting all this satisfaction from a 20 usd razor. Sometimes we don't want to belive this experience can be achieved as the item cost is so cheap. More expensive the razor much more the should be the satisfaction, right? It should be as the item is hard to get from many people. I think Athena is a great razor, but I doubt I will get a better shave than I do from my Fatip razor.
Fatip makes a nice razor for a very low price, I agree.
I just love the shaves I get from my FOCS, but...
a) Handle - the handle is WAY too short. and thread standard used rules-out fitting it with a suitable replacement.
b) Protrusions - the underside of the head, the way the posts protrude, etc. It makes it very hard to keep this razor clean.
other than that, what's not to like?
So many discussions here have the risk of confirmation bias. When one pays $200 for a razor, they really want it to perform much better than a cheaper razor. Confirmation bias is extremely hard to recognize and fix and it is up to the individual and their self awareness.
A similar, but non-shaving example: on a motorcycle forum some were asserting that because they used synthetic oil in their engine that now it was running at a lower RPM for a given speed at the same gear. They claimed 400 RPM less at 60 MPH. That is impossible, of course, with a fixed manual transmission, your RPM is fixed for a given speed unless you change the gearing. What oil you put in doesn't matter. But a vocal group wanted that to be true because they put in $6/qt synthetic oil.
I am not saying that is true in this discussion. And I don't get to shave with my Athena until my wife gives it to me for xmas. (Lucky me, eh?) That said, at some times I trust my impressions more when they were not my expectations. A shaving example: I did not want to like the Henson - they advertised too much, it was aluminum, it looks kinda ugly, etc.. But to my surprise it gives me the best shaves and is contending for my favorite razor of all.
A similar, but non-shaving example: on a motorcycle forum some were asserting that because they used synthetic oil in their engine that now it was running at a lower RPM for a given speed at the same gear. They claimed 400 RPM less at 60 MPH. That is impossible, of course, with a fixed manual transmission, your RPM is fixed for a given speed unless you change the gearing. What oil you put in doesn't matter. But a vocal group wanted that to be true because they put in $6/qt synthetic oil.
I am not saying that is true in this discussion. And I don't get to shave with my Athena until my wife gives it to me for xmas. (Lucky me, eh?) That said, at some times I trust my impressions more when they were not my expectations. A shaving example: I did not want to like the Henson - they advertised too much, it was aluminum, it looks kinda ugly, etc.. But to my surprise it gives me the best shaves and is contending for my favorite razor of all.
You already know, I really love my Athena. I'm very aware of confirmation bias from personal experience and observing human behavior for almost 68 of my 70 years. As was mentioned, if you know about it and are self aware, you can limit how much it affects you.
So, the Athena. What do I like about it. It's visually stunning, of course and comes in a nice presentation box. I guess you could say both of those things are subjective but I happen to like both and liked them when I wasn't planning on buying an Athena. The shave. For me, it's a smooth and comfortable as my very best razors and price isn't a factor here. At this point, I've done enough DE and AC shaving to know what feels good and when the final results are excellent. The unexpected surprise for me was the sound. I didn't realize different razors project different timbres and volumes based on their designs. The Athena, for me, has a sweet, mellow tone, much like my Rosewood body Petros guitar. I doubt many of you have heard or played a Petros guitar, but if you ever get the chance.... take it. In more familiar terms, perhaps, the Athena sounds more like a Fender Strat than a Telecaster, a Martin D18 (Mahogany) vs. a Martin D28 (Rosewood), or a cello vs. a violin. In any event, I just love the timber it projects when I'm shaving.
The shaves last 10-12 hours for me, another indicator I use to measure and rate my razors. My very first razor was the very fine Claymore Evolution, an AC razor. I get incredibly smooth shaves with it and they last around 10 hours, but never 12. I can hear the whiskers being shaved off, but it doesn't project that sound, perhaps because of the thinner, narrower head design. There is less space surrounding the blade in which the sound can be amplified. I'm not an acoustic engineer, so I'm guessing here. We might have such an engineer on B&B who could speak more authoritatively on the subject.
The Rocnel Elite is also a loud razor. It's stainless steel so this could be one reason the timbre is brighter... not Telecaster bright but noticeable when compared to the Athena. Add to that, it projects even more than the Athena much like my Ebony body Petros does. For some reason, that Petros guitar is louder than my Rosewood body Petros and similarly, the timbre is brighter. In fact, the very first thing I noticed about the Elite is how loud it sounds when in use. I quite like that feature. I don't know if it was intended or not as part of the design, but either way, it's enjoyable.
I have high hopes for the less expensive razors I've purchased over the past couple months. I would love it if they're all a pleasure to use and provided shaves lasting 10 to 12 hours. I don't look down on them because of their purchase price. If I did, I wouldn't have wanted to try them.
So, the Athena. What do I like about it. It's visually stunning, of course and comes in a nice presentation box. I guess you could say both of those things are subjective but I happen to like both and liked them when I wasn't planning on buying an Athena. The shave. For me, it's a smooth and comfortable as my very best razors and price isn't a factor here. At this point, I've done enough DE and AC shaving to know what feels good and when the final results are excellent. The unexpected surprise for me was the sound. I didn't realize different razors project different timbres and volumes based on their designs. The Athena, for me, has a sweet, mellow tone, much like my Rosewood body Petros guitar. I doubt many of you have heard or played a Petros guitar, but if you ever get the chance.... take it. In more familiar terms, perhaps, the Athena sounds more like a Fender Strat than a Telecaster, a Martin D18 (Mahogany) vs. a Martin D28 (Rosewood), or a cello vs. a violin. In any event, I just love the timber it projects when I'm shaving.
The shaves last 10-12 hours for me, another indicator I use to measure and rate my razors. My very first razor was the very fine Claymore Evolution, an AC razor. I get incredibly smooth shaves with it and they last around 10 hours, but never 12. I can hear the whiskers being shaved off, but it doesn't project that sound, perhaps because of the thinner, narrower head design. There is less space surrounding the blade in which the sound can be amplified. I'm not an acoustic engineer, so I'm guessing here. We might have such an engineer on B&B who could speak more authoritatively on the subject.
The Rocnel Elite is also a loud razor. It's stainless steel so this could be one reason the timbre is brighter... not Telecaster bright but noticeable when compared to the Athena. Add to that, it projects even more than the Athena much like my Ebony body Petros does. For some reason, that Petros guitar is louder than my Rosewood body Petros and similarly, the timbre is brighter. In fact, the very first thing I noticed about the Elite is how loud it sounds when in use. I quite like that feature. I don't know if it was intended or not as part of the design, but either way, it's enjoyable.
I have high hopes for the less expensive razors I've purchased over the past couple months. I would love it if they're all a pleasure to use and provided shaves lasting 10 to 12 hours. I don't look down on them because of their purchase price. If I did, I wouldn't have wanted to try them.
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- #308
The Athena is among the lowest priced artisan razors I own, though, even if I ignore the mahogany box and attribute the full price only to the razor. For a polished artisan razor I think only my Alpha Executive Shaving Claymore was cheaper, if that still counts as artisan. Blackland, Timeless, Karve, Above The Tie all charge $200 for a steel razor with basic matte or machined finish, and at least $50 more for polished if they offer it. The Athena is $170 or so with high polish marine-grade bronze and the fitted box, before shipping.
I did have some expectations (or hopes) about the Athena from reading reviews before I bought it, but I’ve bought enough razors to know you can never really tell until you’ve tried it yourself. I don’t really expect anything special when I try a new razor and if it turns out to be unusually efficient and smooth compared to other razors then I am delighted and a bit surprised, whether it was cheap, expensive, or somewhere in-between. If anything, a high price can set unreasonable expectations (though sometimes they too are exceeded).
It will be really interesting to hear how you feel about the Athena compared to your Henson. I‘ve never tried the Henson but from what I understand you will be comparing against a pretty gentle and well-engineered shaver, so it’s a good test.
I completely agree that a higher priced razor doesn’t inherently provide a better more comfortable shave compared to a less expensive razor, and I certainly recognize and respect there are a lot of factors that make a razor shave comfortably. I was only stating for my face, I love the mild feel of the blade, and for me, the razor has an opportunity to give me enjoyable shaves for the next 50+ years. Each person has to decide for themselves if the Athena or any other purchase meets their own personal requirements for an enjoyable shave—I certainly didn’t intend to imply a less expensive razor is unable to provide as enjoyable a shave. My post was only intended to share my enjoyment using the Athena, I love the shaves I get from the Athena, I never intended to cause anyone to feel I was looking down on anyone who enjoys using a $20 razor. My apologies if my tone caused anyone to feel differently.
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- #310
So, in Monty Python parlance, you would say the Athena is ‘woody’ and some other razors are more ‘tinny’.
Caribou. Vole. Prodding. Vacuum. Seemly. Gorn.… Like that?
I wouldn't call the Elite "tinny" sounding at all, thankfully. I don't know what "vole" would sound like... I've seen some excellent photos of voles chewing on water plants... they are unbelievably cute.
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True, however...
I wanted the Ares, very much liked the looks of the Athena, I just never picked one up. I went on an adjustables kick.
I love my Sailors, I could not begin to describe my satisfaction in the finish. The shaves can be delightfully blissful...or a bit on the rocky side, nicks, weepers, etc., and I generally don't have an issue with heavy razors.
The Muramasa...well... I can get a decent 9 hour shave on 5. Only. I'm keeping it only in the hopes that they will offer more aggressive plates (I asked & received a nebulous answer) and because if I live long enough, some of my more fearsome blade holders will have to go.
I sold off about 1/4 of my overall razor collection, at the higher end, to fund the purchases, and don't feel bad even with the selections with which I'm rather lukewarm.
All this to say, it it the pinnacle of spending in your collection, yes, there is greater chance for confirmation bias, but more than a few here have a fair range of $$$ razors. One thing I can honestly say, the only thing near the $20 mark that is close to the ~$100+ range in either vintage or modern is the Fatip Lo Storto, for me. I have a good specimen and like the handle too. I don't count any zamac offerings, although I know from experience that some are good shavers, they are just a horrible value. Like paying $4.85/gallon on the main drag, knowing you can go 2 blocks back and get gas for $2.65. You pay more for materials and work on the artisan razors, not convenience in production & profit to the makers.
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- #313
I have to say I cannot really correlate the prices of my razors with how much I like the shaves. I think it has been more about tuning in to the kind of razor designs and characteristics that I prefer, and I have a pretty good and improving success rate with new razors as I try to learn more.
I don’t really love the Tatara Muramasa either, by the way. It shaves ok for me on all five settings but it feels relatively rough to me and I don’t get the long-lasting shaves I would hope for. Maybe there’s a way to make it work better for me but I suspect it will never be completely my thing. Tatara razors hold the blade relatively flat (as @APBinNCA recently pointed out to me) and I think that’s what gives them the characteristics that don’t suit me.
The main inherent advantage I would think the more expensive razors have is precision manufacturing tolerance, which I think does have an effect on the quality of shave that is achievable - IF the head design is also right for me. I think if the blade edge is extremely rigid and precisely straight with no bowing or waves, and the blade angle is right for me, I should be able to get a more comfortable and long-lasting shave more easily than if the design and machining precision are not as good. Design has less to do with price (except perhaps for any design limitations imposed by the manufacturing process), but precision does require expensive machinery to achieve.
So perhaps what might really delight you is a stainless steel, CNC manufactured Fatip Lo Storto. Or something as similar in design as possible.
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I always regret that Fatip themselves don't bother to do so, also for their other designs.
Konsul. I mentioned the Fatip since someone mentioned enjoying the shave from a ~$20 razor. I agree with you, the greater the precision of manufacture, the fewer "handling variables" come into play. You find X blade exposure, between V and W degrees, offers maximum efficiency with minimal negative physical effects. Few of us geek out quite that much, but I suspect it would be possible to generate a design chart indicating you most likely positive matches.What a droll little vole!
And were he to rush out at you with his kindred from the pipe, would it be a ...vole volley..?
And were you to gently toss them back towards their habitat, would it be a game of ...volley vole...?
We could also mention beauty. To many, razors and brushes are functional art. I'll pay a premium for an excellent shaver, but I'll pay more for one that's beautiful. I'll pay again for a precision tool that feels good in the hand and is pleasurable to use. It's not only about cutting hair.
"mild AND efficient"
nothing more really needs to be said about this razor,
unless, of course, you want to point out its undeniable *beauty*, in addition.
had a *fabulous* first shave with this razor today.
nothing more really needs to be said about this razor,
unless, of course, you want to point out its undeniable *beauty*, in addition.
had a *fabulous* first shave with this razor today.
The Athena radiates beauty. Congratulations on enjoying your first shave using an incredibly beautiful razor.
Thanks to this thread, I've gone from being intrigued, to wanting one, to signing up for the waitlist, to stalking the lambda-razors.com website, to "take my money please, NOW!" I've never lusted so hard for a NEW razor, especially one at this price. Heck, I thought my Rockwell 6S was the most I'd ever pay for a new razor (yeah right). I'm smitten by this razor, every detail. For example, I love the way in which the graphics are embossed into the surface of the razor and case. I'm also a sucker for any greek letter (the mechanical engineer in me). Oh, and I'm also a sucker for anything done well by another engineer, especially when it is beautiful like the Athena. I've got it bad for this one 
In fact, I just chatted with a representative on the website who said they anticipated another batch of Athenas being "ready around end of December."
In fact, I just chatted with a representative on the website who said they anticipated another batch of Athenas being "ready around end of December."
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