Knowing when to hone

[onethinline]

I'm a few months in to my SR experience, and with every shave things get better. Sometimes not as fast as I'd want, but it's steady progress.

Given I've put maybe 12-15 shaves onto my main razor (a Portland Razor Co. 6/8 quarter hollow, carbon steel), and am pretty confident in my stropping, I'm wondering, how will I know it's time to go to the stones? Should I be waiting until it needs a full honing, or is there a point where a touch-up would be the right thing?

I should mention the stones I bought, in preparation for learning to hone (and, by the way, I was up in Portland a few weeks ago for Portland Razor's honing class, which was pretty great and very helpful!): a 4k/8k Norton, and a 12k Naniwa finishing stone. I also have a DMT lapping plate. I haven't done anything with these yet.

Given the above as my materials, is there a point where I'd just go to one of the grits to get things touched up? Or should I do a full progression starting on the 4k? I'm sure this varies, but generally when do people decide it's time to break out the stones?

 

[Joshua223]

I only use my finisher for touch ups. If I keep the blade clean and dry between shaves it shouldn't need more than a few laps with very little pressure on a finishing stone.
I touch up the blade when I feel like it is starts to pull or doesn't shave as comfortably. It isn't something I do frequently though. Some of my razors that have quite a few shaves on them haven't been touched up yet. They still shave well so there hasn't been any need.
I would not wait until a razor needs honing on coarser stones. Maintain the edge you have. Get a cheap razor and learn to hone with it.

 

[Gaznix]

Read this, you will never need to buy a stone or hone in your life and costs almost nothing.....

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

Or buy lapping film. Dropping a few hundred $ is crazy when you’re starting out.

 

[Basil]

Looks like you already have a good set up. I saw those classes that Portland offered and it looked like a good beginner class.

The class should have helped you get the basic knowledge and stroke needed for a shave ready razor. As mentioned before if the shave doesn’t feel comfortable might be time to hit the stones. A few laps on the finishing stone and you should be good to go then.

How many shaves between touch ups depends from person to person. If you’re already in the 15 shave range that’s great. Since the blade was already shave ready I wouldn’t drop past the 12k unless the edge was damaged.

 

[ScottChapin]

I have only used finishing stones, since I’ve become reasonably proficient. At first it’s hard to tell whether a blade isn’t performing due to technique or condition.

At a point where my shaves were consistent and generally not as smooth as I liked, I would run the blade 50-100 laps on my 12K Naniwa. If I noticed an improvement, which I did, I would run it for another 50-100 laps. Eventually my shaves were really decent and I don’t need to hone until I notice a degradation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bluesman 7]

Good move on going to the class.

When you go to the stones.....it will be time. All of your questions could be answered with 'it depends'. The decisions of when to hone and how far down in grit to go are a made with experience, and until you actually start honing, you have very little. The fact that you got some in person instruction will probably keep you out of major troubles.

 

[onethinline]

Thanks for the replies so far! Yes, the class was enormously helpful in that I got some initial practice with blade handling, strokes, pressure, etc., with a honemeister right there to offer advice and correction. Invaluable for a manual skill, I must say. Obviously what I need now is a lot of practice, but at least I left knowing the basics of what I'll be doing. (Also, I was very happy to find out my stropping was already on-point. Whew.)

Sounds like going to the Naniwa 12k at some point will be the first thing to try. I'll get that lapped and ready. I assume the Naniwa needs to be soaked, like the Norton, given it's a synthetic?

In the class, we used the Norton 4k/8k, then stropped on ChromOx. Sounds like the 12k could take the place of the ChromOx in my case?

 

[ScottChapin]

No. You wet the Naniwa, but you do NOT soak it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joshua223]

You can use the 12k as your finisher, but you may still want to use pastes. It all depends on your preference. Some prefer using clean linen/leather only after their finishing stone. Others like using loaded strops to polish the edge. Use what you have and then decide whether or not you want to add anything. Naniwa Super Stones don't require soaking, just add water as needed.

 

[ajduplessis]

Did the Portland guys not cover this in their training?

 

[onethinline]

Did the Portland guys not cover this in their training?

Hunter, who taught the class, gave a general answer based on when the razor isn’t shaving as well as you’d like. Which is probably as good as an answer as I can get, but I suppose until I get to know this territory for myself it’s maybe just a tough question to answer. My own perfectionist inclinations are doubtless pushing me to try to “get this right” right off the bat, which is likely just not how this works. Still, the general guidelines everyone has been offering have already been helpful.

 

[bluesman 7]

If you have two or more razors, you can try bringing the poorer shaving razor to shaving better than the best shaving one. In this way you can keep leap frogging the quality of your edges.

 

[onethinline]

If you have two or more razors, you can try bringing the poorer shaving razor to shaving better than the best shaving one. In this way you can keep leap frogging the quality of your edges.

Ah, I like that as an approach! The other day I went back to my Ralf Aust which I'd bought from Straightrazorplace a few years back the first time I tried SR shaving. Back then I suspected it wasn't actually shave-ready, but using it this week, it very clearly IS shave-ready, as I got a wonderful shave from it. Between that and the Portland razor, I could certainly get the two "competing" with each other as I learn to hone.

 

[ScottChapin]

Ah, I like that as an approach! The other day I went back to my Ralf Aust which I'd bought from Straightrazorplace a few years back the first time I tried SR shaving. Back then I suspected it wasn't actually shave-ready, but using it this week, it very clearly IS shave-ready, as I got a wonderful shave from it. Between that and the Portland razor, I could certainly get the two "competing" with each other as I learn to hone.

I go back and forth between a Ralph Aust, Bismark, and Flowing, all bought from Straight Razor Designs. Sad to see them go.

They were all very sharp, but I zeroed them in on my Naniwa. I think they are afraid to get them too sharp, for fear of what they would do in inexperienced hands. Nonetheless, they were definitely sharp enough to get a respectable shave.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KW Driver]

for me, the "when do I need a touch up" is when the edge starts tugging/needs more pressure ATG. from a coticule edge to a .1 diamond paste on balsa it's still the same to me.

as said above, the 12 should do you well enough. once I can feel a noticeable enough difference, is when I touch up. the longer you go, the more work you need to do. it's highly subjective, and knowing what's needed when comes easier with experience. we all got there eventually, and you can too.

 

[kohalajohn]

Onethin, I agree with the others when they said it's subjective.

However, you described yourself as a perfectionist, and I think that changes it.

For you, not for everyone, but for you, give your razor forty light laps on your nani12, on the first of every month.

Folk can get away with lapping every three months. Most razors will start to lose their sharpness after a few months. But if you are a perfectionist and you always want your razor to be in top shape, then do it monthly.

I like my razor to always be same same. So every Saturday morning I set up my shave of the week. That means giving a light honing to the razor I will be using that week. That's more than necessary, but it means the razor is always in top shape. And I don't have to think about how long it's been or whether my shave it as good as it could be.

The perfect example of that is diamond balsa. .1u diamond balsa removes such little steel that you have to give the razor fifty laps every single shave. That's in addition to the leather stopping. It seems like a bit much, but your razor will always be in top shape. It's like changing the oil in your car after every single race.

 

[street]

I seldom hone my razors.
I'll give them a touch up on the 12000 .Very slightly under the running tap.I'll do this every 6 or 7 shaves.
That's it.
Anything below 8000 I only use when I get a new vintage razor .

 

[RayClem]

I have a very coarse beard that requires a very sharp edge. I also have very sensitive skin that requires a very smooth edge. Keeping an edge very sharp and very smooth is a challenge, especially with a beard that destroys edges.

When using a DE razor, I typically get only 3 shaves with a blade and never more than four. When using the extremely sharp Feather blade, I only get two good shaves. On the third shave, the blade becomes too rough to complete the shave.

With a straight razor I can usually get 5-6 shaves out of a blade by using pasted strops to maintain the edge, but then it has to go back to the finishing hone for a refresh. Some folks can maintain an edge indefinitely using pasted strops. If use straight razors alone, I will have to hone one razor per week. Thus, I had to learn to hone; sending razors out for honing would not have been practical.

Although I have a collection of both synthetic and natural stones and pasted strops that will allow me to go from 1k bevel setting to a Suehiro G20K for finishing and then up to 160K grit (0.1 micron) CBN spray for final polishing, I rarely use anything below 10K as coarser grits are only needed when a bevel reset is required.

 

[onethinline]

Very helpful additional comments, thanks. Sounds like I should be exploring my Naniwa 12k soon here. I, too, have coarser-than-average whiskers and slightly sensitive skin. With DE and SE blades, sharper has been better, for sure.

 

[wintersoldier]

I seldom hone my razors.
I'll give them a touch up on the 12000 .Very slightly under the running tap.I'll do this every 6 or 7 shaves.
That's it.
Anything below 8000 I only use when I get a new vintage razor .

I was starting to worry I was using my stones too much. Sounds like your very similar to me, I find after 9-10 shaves my razors start to cause a slight burn, or become kind of sticky and don't want to cut the hairs on my face. 10-15 laps on the 12K Naniwa, 20 laps canvas, 40 leather. And their as good as new (or better if my blades weren't pre honed)