Can someone point me in the right direction?
I know squat about knives. Have plenty of hones for razors, etc.
I know squat about knives. Have plenty of hones for razors, etc.
knife sharpening
- Thread starter rickboone1
- Start date
I'm no expert, but I've spent quite a bit of time over at the cheftalk.com forums. From what I've learned, the type of knife will determine the best type of stone to use, but there are no hard and fast rules. Like shaving, the outcome depends more on your skill than the tools you are using. The general consensus is oilstones for German knives, waterstones for Japanese. Something about the hardness of the steels make one stone better than the other for a particular knife type. That being said, I've used a Hall's tri-hone on my German knives with mixed results. I think my poor results come from a few factors. 1, the stones are too small for a 10" chef's knife. Better sized for a hunting or pack knife. 2, The edges of the stones were not dressed, making for some nasty dings in the blade when my angle got messed up. 3, I don't think they had the right feedback for what I was trying to learn. When you're used to sharpening folding knives and axes, a 10" chef's knife feels like a sword. Very different feel.
I picked up a cheap combo waterstone on Amazon and it was a night and day difference. The stone was larger and the edges were beveled to prevent blade dings. I'm leaning towards picking up a Sabatier carbon knife and then a J knife, probably a Masamoto, and waterstones are pretty much all you can use on them. (They're so hard they will take forever to sharpen on an oilstone.) I plan on ordering some good stones (most likely 3) and the french knife. Once I feel my skills are where they need to be, I'll pick up the J knife.
Freehand sharpening is only one option (but if you're shaving with a straight edge, you will probably enjoy this method). Chef's Choice makes some decent sharpening machines. Just make sure you get one that is set up for your knife type as you can't change the sharpening angle. Edge pro has a rod and guide system that may swear by. Your best bet would be to check out CT's cutlery forum and look for posts from Boar de Laze (BDL). He knows his stuff and is always asking questions to make sure his suggestions truly fit your needs, not his personal preference.
Be careful, though. Cheftalk is as addictive as B&B!
I picked up a cheap combo waterstone on Amazon and it was a night and day difference. The stone was larger and the edges were beveled to prevent blade dings. I'm leaning towards picking up a Sabatier carbon knife and then a J knife, probably a Masamoto, and waterstones are pretty much all you can use on them. (They're so hard they will take forever to sharpen on an oilstone.) I plan on ordering some good stones (most likely 3) and the french knife. Once I feel my skills are where they need to be, I'll pick up the J knife.
Freehand sharpening is only one option (but if you're shaving with a straight edge, you will probably enjoy this method). Chef's Choice makes some decent sharpening machines. Just make sure you get one that is set up for your knife type as you can't change the sharpening angle. Edge pro has a rod and guide system that may swear by. Your best bet would be to check out CT's cutlery forum and look for posts from Boar de Laze (BDL). He knows his stuff and is always asking questions to make sure his suggestions truly fit your needs, not his personal preference.
Be careful, though. Cheftalk is as addictive as B&B!
Rick what are you sharpening?
Can't help you with the DIY of it. My local butcher will sharpen knives for $4 each. (Not a grocery store--he's running an old fashioned, stand-alone, cut-to-order operation.) He put razor edges on a six year old set of inexpensive Analon knives for me and six months of heavy use later they are still holding those edges with just a few passes on the steel. I learned how to sharpen knives in the Boy Scouts, but balked at trying to sharpen a 10" carver. For four bucks each, it was worth it to me to let a pro who makes a living with his blades do it for me. He gave them back with better edges than the factory had put on them.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
$4 to sharpen a knife is pretty reasonable! That's the way to go if you can get it done that cheap.
I use a 4 sided diamond hone, about $12 from Harbor Freight. Does the job okay. I find there is no reason to go above 600 grit for a kitchen knife. YMMV bit I feel the coarser edge has better cutting ability in the kitchen. If you have a DMT 325 you could use that, and optionally finish on your 1k bevel setter.
An angle guide may help initially but you will quickly outgrow it once you got the sharpening angle down pat. Main thing is keep the angle consistent. Some stainless knives are a real PITA to sharpen. I suggest picking up a cheap carbon steel butcher knife to practice on. Experiment with different bevels. I use a fairly small primary bevel but then at the end I apply a secondary bevel with just a half dozen laps, a couple of degrees steeper. The edges hold up better but still have reasonable cutting power.
The Chef's Choice electric machine actually does work pretty good. Just concentrate on keeping the blade vertical, and draw lightly and smoothly through the slot and you will get a quite serviceable edge in seconds. I wouldn't recommend it for a $300 Japanese sushi type knife but for your run of the mill chef or butcher or utility knife it will gitter done.
I use a 4 sided diamond hone, about $12 from Harbor Freight. Does the job okay. I find there is no reason to go above 600 grit for a kitchen knife. YMMV bit I feel the coarser edge has better cutting ability in the kitchen. If you have a DMT 325 you could use that, and optionally finish on your 1k bevel setter.
An angle guide may help initially but you will quickly outgrow it once you got the sharpening angle down pat. Main thing is keep the angle consistent. Some stainless knives are a real PITA to sharpen. I suggest picking up a cheap carbon steel butcher knife to practice on. Experiment with different bevels. I use a fairly small primary bevel but then at the end I apply a secondary bevel with just a half dozen laps, a couple of degrees steeper. The edges hold up better but still have reasonable cutting power.
The Chef's Choice electric machine actually does work pretty good. Just concentrate on keeping the blade vertical, and draw lightly and smoothly through the slot and you will get a quite serviceable edge in seconds. I wouldn't recommend it for a $300 Japanese sushi type knife but for your run of the mill chef or butcher or utility knife it will gitter done.
+1 on Chefs Choice. Make sure you only do plain edge knives though. Box said it was safe for serrated pocket knives, so I put my serrated gerber AR 3.0 in there. It got sharp, but also a new plain edge...
I learned by taking a really inexpensive knife and just going at it. Once I got it to the level I wanted I dulled it up and went after it again.
Use the same hones, you might even want one of lower grit than you use for razors. I have a Norton India Stone and use the medium grit which is lower than 1k but not sure the exact number. I really like this and when I was sharpening my knives weekly this was all I used. Now I go up to my 8k.
Depends on the knife what angle you use. I can't give you an all around number, but typically the thiner the blade the lower angle I use. Your skills at razors will transfer with blade pressure and even strokes. the main difference is holding the knife and not using the spine to get your angle. You can purchase plastic guides to get your angle, but I have a feeling you want to learn with out one.
Good luck
Use the same hones, you might even want one of lower grit than you use for razors. I have a Norton India Stone and use the medium grit which is lower than 1k but not sure the exact number. I really like this and when I was sharpening my knives weekly this was all I used. Now I go up to my 8k.
Depends on the knife what angle you use. I can't give you an all around number, but typically the thiner the blade the lower angle I use. Your skills at razors will transfer with blade pressure and even strokes. the main difference is holding the knife and not using the spine to get your angle. You can purchase plastic guides to get your angle, but I have a feeling you want to learn with out one.
Good luck
There is a million options.....
However, what you need for basic knife sharpening is a stone or perhaps a few depending on how much that needs to be done.
Just like with a straight.
And just with like a straigth everyone is an expert & "knows" what is right.
Mark Richmonds series (owner of one of the biggest cutlery web shops) of "how to sharpen a knife" is quite good & very informative.He is not a sharpening expert, but he knows what he is talking about, more then enough to show others.
And that is kinda what is so nice about his videos, they aren't full of weird (often Japanese-inspired) lingo & mystic words & concepts that most "experts" seem to throw around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwfW_PXWBJs
He just explains how it can be done & what you can use.
Murray Carter also have some nice videos on YT.
Then there is of course an abundance of videos, most of them not very helpful, but some are.
Just like with straight you will eventually have to decide who you wanna listen to & then make up your own mind.
Knives are more complex then razors because of the many models & types of steel, but they are also much less finicky.
It will be very clear when a knife gets sharper & you will get results FAST, just spend a couple of hours training holding the angle, testing pressure & often check what happens at the edge & you will get vast improvements
in a short period of time, way faster then with straight razor honing IMO.
Bottom line is that you want to get you knife sharp or sharper by grinding off enough metal. That's it.
However, what you need for basic knife sharpening is a stone or perhaps a few depending on how much that needs to be done.
Just like with a straight.
And just with like a straigth everyone is an expert & "knows" what is right.
Mark Richmonds series (owner of one of the biggest cutlery web shops) of "how to sharpen a knife" is quite good & very informative.He is not a sharpening expert, but he knows what he is talking about, more then enough to show others.
And that is kinda what is so nice about his videos, they aren't full of weird (often Japanese-inspired) lingo & mystic words & concepts that most "experts" seem to throw around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwfW_PXWBJs
He just explains how it can be done & what you can use.
Murray Carter also have some nice videos on YT.
Then there is of course an abundance of videos, most of them not very helpful, but some are.
Just like with straight you will eventually have to decide who you wanna listen to & then make up your own mind.
Knives are more complex then razors because of the many models & types of steel, but they are also much less finicky.
It will be very clear when a knife gets sharper & you will get results FAST, just spend a couple of hours training holding the angle, testing pressure & often check what happens at the edge & you will get vast improvements
in a short period of time, way faster then with straight razor honing IMO.
Bottom line is that you want to get you knife sharp or sharper by grinding off enough metal. That's it.
Anybody try the Work Sharp Knife and Tool sharpener? I saw it on DIY or HGTV. It uses sanding belts of different grits. The price isn't bad on Amazon.
I asked this same question some time ago. Now I use a 1k Arkansas oil stone for all my kitchen knives. I also have a ceramic 'steel' to keep them sharp between when I hit the stone and a regular steel for after every use.
I actually had good results setting the bevel on my Elephant Carbon Sab Chef knife using nothing but the 1k Arkansas. It did take a long time, but once the bevel is set it is easy to maintain.
I also hit the Norton 4k then 8k when sharpening, but this really isn't necessary. IMHO. I think that a 350 grit or maybe a 600 would be an ideal addition to the 1k, but going much beyond 1k is just for the fun of it.
I actually had good results setting the bevel on my Elephant Carbon Sab Chef knife using nothing but the 1k Arkansas. It did take a long time, but once the bevel is set it is easy to maintain.
I also hit the Norton 4k then 8k when sharpening, but this really isn't necessary. IMHO. I think that a 350 grit or maybe a 600 would be an ideal addition to the 1k, but going much beyond 1k is just for the fun of it.
When I get after sharpening my knives after hunting, or after a good bit of use in the kitchen I just stick with my tried and true Lansky sharpener. Takes the guess work out of the angles and I find that having the selection of different grits is nice depending on what the condition of the knife is like when I begin. For field use I just grab an inexpensive yellow Smith sharpener that has a ceramic side and a carbide side. Does the trick for bringing an edge back for skinning or while butchering. Most knives I tend to go with a 25 degree angle but for others I will start with one angle and change it with finer grits depending on what use the knife has.
- Thread starter
- #12
kitchen knives. pocket knives
I came here to ask the same question...glad I'm not the only one.
Anything special about Japanese knives? I have a set of Shun knives that we got for our wedding. They are pretty...I'm scared of messing them up.
I'd be willing to pay to have them sharpened. I'm sure there's a place here in NYC I could take them.
Ben
Anything special about Japanese knives? I have a set of Shun knives that we got for our wedding. They are pretty...I'm scared of messing them up.
I'd be willing to pay to have them sharpened. I'm sure there's a place here in NYC I could take them.
Ben
While I can sharpen kitchen knives decently enough, pocket knives made from super hard steels with curved tips and tantos gave me conniptions. Not to mention ugly bevels. I swallowed my razor honer's pride and got me an edgepro apex.
My pocket knives are sharper than factory, and my kitchen knives are as sharp or sharper than ever. The buy in is high, but I feel it is worth the investment.
My pocket knives are sharper than factory, and my kitchen knives are as sharp or sharper than ever. The buy in is high, but I feel it is worth the investment.
I have a Lansky I got about 20 years ago, and LOVE it every one who uses my knives mention how sharp they are, even my culinary instructors did. It really does take the guess work out of it, and once you set it up you can go through a bunch of knives in no time. I will set up on the coffee table and watch TV and do all the knives in the house at once. I have mostly German and French steel though. I have not gotten any Japanese steel yet. The other thing I like about it is it is quite compact and all goes into a case so nothing gets lost Even thought the stones are quite small they work well on my 10 inch chef's knife. They also make a stone for serrated knives, though sadly since it does not fit in the case I have lost it. I have thought about getting one of the dimand ones, because the hones are getting quite worn out and the courser ones are about down to the handles.
I also hit the Norton 4k then 8k when sharpening, but this really isn't necessary. IMHO. I think that a 350 grit or maybe a 600 would be an ideal addition to the 1k, but going much beyond 1k is just for the fun of it.
I'm hoping to be able to take the Sab up to about 4-5K and the Jknife up to 8K, but I'm a bit of a tweak. The labor of love it takes to put a mirror finish on an edge makes the food taste better. (At least that's what I tell myself...)
Try Korin. 57 Warren St. They also sell some of the finest J knives I've ever seen. Not a good place if you have AD... It took all of my self control to not walk out with a 270mm Masamoto gyoto.
I would look at a King 1000 or a Norton combostone. No matter where you end up, both stones will be useful and are not very expensive.
- Thread starter
- #19
Can I use my Cretan hone or Chosera 1k?
- Thread starter
- #20
Can I use my Cretan hone or Chosera 1k?
I guess my bigger questions are; how the heck do you hold the blade to the stone? do you just keep the spine lifted? how do you know when you're ready for the next stone/ step? how high is sufficent? 4k too high? good enough?
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